Michael Moore is a big fat idiot.............

[jclalor 12]

As a long time democrat, I can not stand the lies that MM tells and gets away with. While I generally agree with most of his positions I strongly disagree with his splice and dice methods. To call his movies documentaries is as silly as saying Rush Limbaugh is a competent and serious journalist. People are always astounded the Right does not call Limbaugh on all of his BS but don't raise a brow to MM'S.

[billvon 3,114]

He is indeed a sensationalist who's more interested in hype than documentary production. He sometimes makes good points, but they are often lost behind his grandstanding and desire to present his own message at the expense of any kind of balanced presentation.

[TankBuster 0]

Well said, but I like the first post better. He's a big fat idiot.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[quade 4]

Oh, do I have THE movie for this thread!

Check out the trailer HERE.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ianmdrennan 2]

Check out Manufacturing Dissent. It's a really good watch.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[lawrocket 3]

I do not think he's an idiot. Not in the slightest.

Who here actuyally thinks that he cannot afford a haircut, a shave, clothes that fit or a personal trainer?

The guy is making money hand over fist, and shrwwdly placed himself as a working class hero.

I think he's a pretty bright guy.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

The thing is . . . you really only have to have about 3% of the population willing to buy your product to be amazingly profitable and successful at the kind of thing he does. That could be the extremely far, far, FAR left and he wouldn't really have to think too much about making anyone else happy.

It's a formula that works in both directions . . . his just happens to cater to the extreme far left now. Didn't used to. Used to be much more centrist; Roger and Me for example.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DSE 5]

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I think he's a pretty bright guy.

And having met, and listened to him speak on several occasions...you're right, IMO. He's no dummy.

[jclalor 12]

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I think he's a pretty bright guy.

And having met, and listened to him speak on several occasions...you're right, IMO. He's no dummy.

I will agree he is not an idiot, I should have posted he is a big fat liar who uses people's trust to misinform them.

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[DSE 5]

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I will agree he is not an idiot, I should have posted he is a big fat liar who uses people's trust to misinform them.

so does Fox, but theirs is in the guise of "news" and not documentary. Oh, and he does research to support is outrageous stretches of the truth rather than just supplying outright falsehoods with no foundation.

[jclalor 12]

I hate Fox news but it still does not excuse MM from lying. Stretching the truth is one thing but he straight up lies.
Their is more than ample evidence of this.

[birdlike 0]

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He is indeed a sensationalist who's more interested in hype than documentary production. He sometimes makes good points, but they are often lost behind his grandstanding and desire to present his own message at the expense of any kind of balanced presentation.

What does that say about the "Establishment," particularly liberal Hollywood, when they actually gave him an Academy Award for {DOCUMENTARY} film? (One that is replete with lies and distortions, and has been roundly debunked in many ways.)

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[DSE 5]

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I hate Fox news but it still does not excuse MM from lying. Stretching the truth is one thing but he straight up lies.
Their is more than ample evidence of this.

Such as? _Specifically_, what has more fabricated out of nothing into whole cloth?

[masterrig 1]

I've always heard that, someone in this country will figure-out how to make money off of something. Michael Moore, found his 'something'. I don't think he could be called 'stupid' for that.


Chuck

[birdlike 0]

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I hate Fox news but it still does not excuse MM from lying. Stretching the truth is one thing but he straight up lies.
Their is more than ample evidence of this.

Such as? _Specifically_, what has more fabricated out of nothing into whole cloth?

He picked a bank that offers a voucher for a rifle when you open a bank account with a minimum of $1000. He went to that bank and STAGED a scene as though the bank HANDS YOU THE RIFLE INSIDE THE BANK.

The fact is that the bank would verify your identity, open the account, deposit your funds, and give you a voucher that could be used at a local gun shop. THEY DID [I]NOT[/I] HAVE, OR GIVE OUT, THE GUNS IN THE BANK.

Yet Moore challenges the bank rep there across the desk, asking him if it's not a little unsafe to give out rifles in a bank.

When he is filmed leaving the bank, he is physically holding a rifle that he ostensibly just got given inside the bank.

IT'S A FUCKING LIE.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[normiss 893]

yea...
I miss buying my bullets at K-Mart.
I'm now forced to go to Wal Mart.
That made sense.

[birdlike 0]

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I hate Fox news but it still does not excuse MM from lying. Stretching the truth is one thing but he straight up lies.
Their is more than ample evidence of this.

Such as? _Specifically_, what has more fabricated out of nothing into whole cloth?

Why don't you go to this website and check out the copious and comprehensive analysis of the lies and distortions of "Bowling for Columbine"? I don't have to spoon feed it to you when you can read about it right here (clicky)

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"Bowling is fiction. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Statements are made which are false. Moore leads the reader to draw inferences which he must have known were wrong. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which were not sentences he uttered. Bowling uses deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect."

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"Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting."

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"When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer. Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue.

Are you starting to see, yet?
Your eyes might hurt a bit. You've never used them before.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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I think he's a pretty bright guy.

And having met, and listened to him speak on several occasions...you're right, IMO. He's no dummy.

Just a prick fuck scumbag douchebag shitpile. But no dummy.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[normiss 893]

It's disappointing that people will respect someone who has sold their sole simply to make lots of money.

He's a total fuckleberry.

[shropshire 0]

Yeah that's not exactly a sparsely populated group, is it?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I will agree he is not an idiot, I should have posted he is a big fat liar who uses people's trust to misinform them.

so does Fox, but theirs is in the guise of "news" and not documentary. Oh, and he does research to support is outrageous stretches of the truth rather than just supplying outright falsehoods with no foundation.

DSE, I actually used to be a MM fan. I own Farenheit and Bowling for Columbine. That said, I recently got to see Manufacturing Dissent which, coincidently, was made by a MM fan at the time.

Pretty interesting stuff in there, and it definitely changed my view of MM. I think you'll enjoy the view, check it out sometime.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[birdlike 0]

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It's disappointing that people will respect someone who has sold their sole simply to make lots of money.

He's a total fuckleberry.

I know, I mean, what the fuck?! People here are saying that he must be "smart" because he managed to make a lot of fools believe lies. The measure of how "smart" you must be lies in how much money you've raked in by deceiving people.

That makes a man smart? Or just cunning?
I gotta tell you, if he believes his own bullshit, there's not a chance in the world that he's actually "smart."

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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DSE, I actually used to be a MM fan.

Pretty interesting stuff in there, and it definitely changed my view of MM. I think you'll enjoy the view, check it out sometime.

Ian

I really hope you'll check out that hardylaw page I linked to. It has a lot of eye-opening stuff there.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[DSE 5]

I've seen it,Ian.
Somehow, someone got the idea I have respect for Michael Moore. I respect what he's done, but not him as an individual.
The original comment is that he's an idiot. He's not. He's very calculated, and plans his craftings quite well. I've yet to meet a filmmaker that is intelligent enough to manipulate words, images, or sequences to create the illusion he does.
He doesn't stand behind his work as it being "true."
Please refer to my earlier comment, which I'll stand firmly behind.
"Michael Moore is not an idiot."
Somehow, an idiot foolishly extrapolated that to mean I respect him.
When a blanket statement is made suggesting he fabricates the truth, I'd like to hear a specific.
Moore is a filmmaker. A damn good one. A brilliant filmmaker and artist. The problem is that his works are so filled with many, many truthful elements that people are disillusioned when there are false elements used to tie together truths.

[pirana 0]

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It's disappointing that people will respect someone who has sold their sole simply to make lots of money.

He's a total fuckleberry.

I know, I mean, what the fuck?! People here are saying that he must be "smart" because he managed to make a lot of fools believe lies. The measure of how "smart" you must be lies in how much money you've raked in by deceiving people.

That makes a man smart? Or just cunning?
I gotta tell you, if he believes his own bullshit, there's not a chance in the world that he's actually "smart."

I do not think he believes his own bullshit. He knows exactly what he is doing, and that is to serve as a counter to the very similar things done by the extremists at the other end of the spectruym.

Not saying he is right; it is definitely outside of the things I would do as guided by my principles; just that he is playing the game in an effort to promote his agenda.

Seeking to understand where people are coming from makes it more difficult to hate them. I don't agree with his tactics, but I don't hate him either. I empathize with his cause (ending violence and reducing access to the tools of violence) and appreciate the attention he brings to it; but wish we didn't live in a world where clubbing people over the head with lies and half-truths wasn't the only way to get the attention of the 80% of the population can't seem to get their nose away from must-see TV.

It's tough to compete for the attention of a general population that finds grown men playing a child's game the most watchable entertainment followed closely by fat celebreties and amatuer cooks competing to insult each other and lose weight.

He's trying to be noticed and get attention - - very tough given the attention span and media preferences of the average citizen.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley