September 11th, 2001

[Gawain 0]

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Interestingly, you hadn't been attacked before so with that logic, you must have been doing something right before. umm.

That's just silly talk right there...9/11, USS Cole, US Embassies Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, WTC 1...and that's just since the Cold War ended. We could throw in Berlin, Beirut, PanAm, Achille Lauro (Italian I know, but it was a US citizen singled out and killed), Tehran Hostages, a slew of other hi-jackings...take your pick....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The threat of prosecution keeps every store in the country from being cleaned out.


Really? That's why therate of recitivism is so high, about 70% or higher.

Deterrence theory isn't statistically substantiable since recitivism is high and crime rates don't correspond with rates of penalty. Crime rates seem to be more tied to the economy, but even then, thjat's weak.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roll your eyes all you want. We haven't been attacked since then.


Well then we can absolutley infer that delivering 4k dead kids and >700 billion dollars saved us, now if we could just maintain that.

BTW, we have been fiscally attacked, out dollar value is piss, partially in part to the Iraq mess, so we really have been attacked in so many ways.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You guys only read what you want to read. That was exactly my point. We would never screen for race. That means the attackers would still be allowed on the plane even if the TSA was in place back then. The only difference between then and now is that their box cutter would be taken away.

Hey, it was the poster's remark, not mine. He wrote that we were still letting Arabs on the aircraft.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>How much of roll do you think those little ass box cutters played? Personally I think the planes would've been taken over without any weapon.


Pure speculation.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, you jump to a rediculous conclusion for the chance to take a cheap shot. My point, for the third time, is that TSA screening would not stop the attackers from getting on the plane. Their box cutters wouldn't make it, but don't you think they would've figured something else out?


Pure speculation.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sure it does. Would it stop someone from taking over a plane? Highly doubt it. The flight deck doors, air marshals, and passengers would make it damn hard.


So you're saying that Clinton's so-called relaxed CIA had nothing to do with it then, huh? Hmmm, good point.

[Lucky... 0]

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Purely agrumentative... if the pilots pulled negative G then it wouldn't pin them to the ceiling. They, along with everyone else, would just float. It would probably flame out the engines, though.


Not if you pulled enough neg g. Shove that bastard down hard and it would stick em, then get on the pa and tell passengers what's going on and to help.

10 posts in a row? My, you do like to see yourself in print.

No substance in your post? Why how typical, at least you can say you posted in the thread, even if you don't understand anything in it.

There's a difference between substance and oral diarrhea.

Then wear a diaper, like your nominee.

[Lucky... 0]

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Interestingly, you hadn't been attacked before so with that logic, you must have been doing something right before. umm.

Yea, under the Clinton years, no one jacked an acft..... hmmmm.

The silliness with the repubs is that they think these Arabic nations are over there watching CNN to see who gets elected and react accordingly. If that were the case, they would have attcked under the Clinton admin, thinking he would be less likely to invade Iraq. They don't give a shit, and like a pig in mud, they like the attack.

[diablopilot 2]

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TSA? Those jerkoffs couldnt protect a hot dog stand. What they claim to be security is a massive joke. What else do we have now that we didnt then?

They just need to give the contract to El Al Security.. Fire all the fucknuggets that were hired by the government from the ranks of those who failed on 9/11

Bingo.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Lucky... 0]

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TSA? Those jerkoffs couldnt protect a hot dog stand. What they claim to be security is a massive joke. What else do we have now that we didnt then?

They just need to give the contract to El Al Security.. Fire all the fucknuggets that were hired by the government from the ranks of those who failed on 9/11

Well, Bush tried to sell the seaports to an Arabic nation......

[shropshire 0]

I assumed that he meant an attack, like the 11-9 one, that was in the USA.

If not, then he was also wrong because attacks have continued on US interests abroad.




Also, I have no problem admitting to silliness - happens all the time.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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I assumed that he meant an attack, like the 11-9 one, that was in the USA.

The WTC attack in 1993, and Embassies are considered "native" soil.

Semantics to point.

My point is, the western world, not just the US, has been under systematic attack since Munich. From this side of the pond, it seems as though some out there are just willing to sit by and let it happen. Countries roll over, some count success by the number of cars burned in a day... ...unbelievable.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Lucky... 0]

Don't forget Iran-Contra...... oh, that was something else.


See, your approach is to keep the world at bay by constantly blowing things up and making threats. Are you able to understand number and fiscal data? While it's fun to be the world's bullies, we can't fiscally maintain it. While we agree that we forced Russia to spend, leading to their demise, we think we are immune to that. Truth is we are not, we are going down the shitter, or actually have gone down the shitter. 10T debt and a devalued dollar is the result, but the Repub protocol is to blow up people that refuse to trade with us. It's just unworkable.

[Lucky... 0]

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I assumed that he meant an attack, like the 11-9 one, that was in the USA.

The WTC attack in 1993, and Embassies are considered "native" soil.

Semantics to point.

My point is, the western world, not just the US, has been under systematic attack since Munich. From this side of the pond, it seems as though some out there are just willing to sit by and let it happen. Countries roll over, some count success by the number of cars burned in a day... ...unbelievable.

And so there are avenues to take:

- Guard our borders

- Blow up people around the world and call it deterrence

- Become more pallatable in a world sense


The world isn't affraid of us, even if they should be, so that won't work - never did other than after we killed 300,000 women and children.

Your solution to keep these guys busy killing our kids at teh rate of 800 per year and 180B per year is jus not workable.

[Gawain 0]

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Don't forget Iran-Contra...... oh, that was something else.

See, your approach is to keep the world at bay by constantly blowing things up and making threats. Are you able to understand number and fiscal data? While it's fun to be the world's bullies, we can't fiscally maintain it. While we agree that we forced Russia to spend, leading to their demise, we think we are immune to that. Truth is we are not, we are going down the shitter, or actually have gone down the shitter. 10T debt and a devalued dollar is the result, but the Repub protocol is to blow up people that refuse to trade with us. It's just unworkable.

Dude, I get it. You're willing to negotiate compromises with your own values. You're hoping your country will willingly give up on its own values, compromise in the face of an unwilling foe. Somehow, you think it is civilization's duty to do so...don't face them...just give them what they want...don't make them mad....they only want to be "part of"...

None of this is true or correct. These radicals don't want to be understood. They want to be obeyed. The movement against Israel has nothing to do anymore with finding their own sovereign home, it's about eradicating Israel. The bombings of 9/11, 3/11, and 7/7 have nothing to do with just getting a message across. It has to do with trying to bring fear to the forefront. They got one out of the three.

We can always regain our strength. We can always rebuild our fiscal structure. Our market is unique in that it can do it. But to compromise with our values with some illusion of peace is deadly irresponsible. We can always come back as free men.

This is a long road. It will entail great struggle. It is a road we must tread carefully and deliberately. To stop and give up is not an option.

It's a shame you're so willing to throw it away.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

I'll just slink off now then [looking for deep hole.... oh look there's the one I've just dug.. that looks deep enough] CYA

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[airdvr 210]

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If that were the case, they would have attcked under the Clinton admin, thinking he would be less likely to invade Iraq.

Wait...isn't that what happened?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Gawain 0]

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I'll just slink off now then [looking for deep hole.... oh look there's the one I've just dug.. that looks deep enough] CYA

I really need to visit England someday.

We need an icon for "tea" also...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

You'd be welcome here any time mate.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[airdvr 210]

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And so there are avenues to take:

- Guard our borders

- Blow up people around the world and call it deterrence

- Become more pallatable in a world sense


The world isn't affraid of us, even if they should be, so that won't work - never did other than after we killed 300,000 women and children.

Your solution to keep these guys busy killing our kids at teh rate of 800 per year and 180B per year is jus not workable.

Peace in our time! That's it! How do you negotiate with radicals who's first line of business is your annihilation?

Us: We'd like to work out a solution
Them: OK..when will you die?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[christelsabine 1]

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I'll just slink off now then [looking for deep hole.... oh look there's the one I've just dug.. that looks deep enough] CYA

No, wait, why? Your allied, and as such.... errare humanum est

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dude, I get it. You're willing to negotiate compromises with your own values.


So you have to make it about my values instead of the issue that we have bad people out there, do we attack them on an on-going basis and/or protect our homeland? Sucks to be out of merit and have to turn it against the other debater.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You're hoping your country will willingly give up on its own values, compromise in the face of an unwilling foe.

You keep trying to make this about values, hence tie it to character, a simple ad homem. Funny tho, listen to the Republican Party representatives when they speak this fall, all you hear are RAH-RAH, no direct or very little direct reference to a substantive plan. They don't talk about funding, byproducts to actions, alternate plans, just idiocy about - you're with us or you're against us - don't worry, just elect us and we'll take care of you. I don;t see your repsonse being different, you make it about my character when tgeh issue is about how to deal with terrorists.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Somehow, you think it is civilization's duty to do so...don't face them...just give them what they want...don't make them mad....they only want to be "part of"...


How do you draw that from what I wrote? You can't, I wrote that we should get out of their business as we build and monitor our borders, not becuase it's what they want, but because it's what is best for us.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>None of this is true or correct. These radicals don't want to be understood.


And who the fuck said they did? I wrote that they don't care about our election cycles, they're not affraid of us. That has nothing to do with being understood. I realize that to even entertain that ridiculous remark actually somehow empowers you, but it needs to be noted that I have never given a shit about understanding them.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.They want to be obeyed.


And so do we. Neither will obey the other, so we should seperate, make sense? Or kill them until we are broke and then they kill us, then what?



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The movement against Israel has nothing to do anymore with finding their own sovereign home, it's about eradicating Israel.


It's more complicated than that, but we played a big part in the Palestinian War, so we reap the reward, 911 and others. We need to guard out home. Don't forget, the original Viet Nam, not this one, it took years to admit we would never win, this is the same. If it makes yiu feel better, we killed a 6:1+ ratio in VN, probably way more than that here, esp if you count innocent civilians, of course there are no innocent civilains to you, right?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The bombings of 9/11, 3/11, and 7/7 have nothing to do with just getting a message across. It has to do with trying to bring fear to the forefront. They got one out of the three.


No, it's about US revenge, we have accomplished NOTHING.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We can always rebuild our fiscal structure.

And we get the one MF that was doing that and your friends impeach him for lying about a blowjob. No, you are fooling no one, you have the position that we spend, spend, spend and when the world respects the US Dollar as the Mexican Peso, we just blow em up and take theirs. To say we can rebuild our fiscal infrastructure is ridiculous, we are done at 10T debt thanks to the neo-con movement.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But to compromise with our values with some illusion of peace is deadly irresponsible.


That's RW RAH-RAH rhetoric, who is compromising who's values? Compromising values would be like me stealing or raping. killing, etc. Looking for what is best for America by getting out of a non-winnable mess is just prudence. We will never enjoy peace, but to mitigate war we can sav our kids and fiscal health as best we can.


>>>>>>>>>>>>This is a long road. It will entail great struggle. It is a road we must tread carefully and deliberately. To stop and give up is not an option.


Dude, that si rhetoric that you babble as youplay teh national anthem in the backdrop, it doesn't address any issues.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>.It's a shame you're so willing to throw it away.


It's a shame you think 1o trillion dollars is lunch money.

[Lucky... 0]

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If that were the case, they would have attcked under the Clinton admin, thinking he would be less likely to invade Iraq.

Wait...isn't that what happened?

Sure, in 93, 4 weeks after he took office. Then in 2001, >8 months after Bush took office, so my point was that the Arabs or any enemies of teh US don;t care about administrations, thx for illustrating that.

[airdvr 210]

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If that were the case, they would have attcked under the Clinton admin, thinking he would be less likely to invade Iraq.

Wait...isn't that what happened?

Sure, in 93, 4 weeks after he took office. Then in 2001, >8 months after Bush took office, so my point was that the Arabs or any enemies of teh US don;t care about administrations, thx for illustrating that.

A bunch more happened between '93 and '01.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Peace in our time! That's it! How do you negotiate with radicals who's first line of business is your annihilation?



You don't, you get out of their land, set up parameters in your homeland and watch very closely for intruders, kill them if they come here.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Us: We'd like to work out a solution
Them: OK..when will you die?



Who said anything about negotiations?

We are playing into their hands by staying over there burning up our fortunes for teh next 100 years.

[Lucky... 0]

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If that were the case, they would have attcked under the Clinton admin, thinking he would be less likely to invade Iraq.

Wait...isn't that what happened?

Sure, in 93, 4 weeks after he took office. Then in 2001, >8 months after Bush took office, so my point was that the Arabs or any enemies of teh US don;t care about administrations, thx for illustrating that.

A bunch more happened between '93 and '01.

Thank you once again, and then the ultimate horrid act during who's admin? And do you think they gove a shit about who's admin is in control?

[Gawain 0]

I would just like to take a quick tangent and ask if you have something against the "reply" tags? This crazy arrow>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sh*t is just....well...

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So you have to make it about my values instead of the issue that we have bad people out there,

What do you think debates are based upon? Your value system is guiding you to the line of thinking you're expressing. I am exploiting that...and you're doing the same with mine.

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do we attack them on an on-going basis and/or protect our homeland? Sucks to be out of merit and have to turn it against the other debater.

I disagree. Where you see an erosion of credibility I see as a quiet acceptance and a ground swell toward our line of thinking. Elections in France, Germany and possibly in the UK soon display that. If the world were really so pissed off at us, the circumstances would be far worse. The reality is that in the political arena, these spectators are glad we're keeping the fight hot. It's not an environment of pseudo-peace in the 90s that fermented the worst attacks in our history.

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You keep trying to make this about values, hence tie it to character, a simple ad homem.

That's what it is about. You can tie religion into it too. These attacks on the west aren't over minor disagreements. This is the kettle boiling over on issues which you and I (everyone really) take for granted. It's about values, faith, money, power...all of it. I for one, am not willing to see our country just sit aside and take second fiddle. That is not what we are built upon.

These terrorists are exploiting our freedoms and somehow, those against this campaign think that we'll be left alone if we do nothing and mind our own business. The 1990s are proof that is false.

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...they're not affraid of us. ...

These guys are cowards. I've seen them with my own eyes, and I guarantee you that they question their "faith". This is part of the long road I mentioned.

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And so do we. Neither will obey the other, so we should seperate, make sense? Or kill them until we are broke and then they kill us, then what?

You're acting like it was the US that started this. The top came off this brew during decolonization after WWII. It was somewhat contained during the Cold War, proxy/localized. The initial adjustment out of the Cold War was quiet, and I'll admit, it was looking good. We know that is not the case though.

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... of course there are no innocent civilains to you, right?

Really, when did you go over there?

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But to compromise with our values with some illusion of peace is deadly irresponsible.

That's RW RAH-RAH rhetoric, who is compromising who's values? Compromising values would be like me stealing or raping. killing, etc. Looking for what is best for America by getting out of a non-winnable mess is just prudence. We will never enjoy peace, but to mitigate war we can sav our kids and fiscal health as best we can.

Do you really think if we tuck-tail and leave, that there will be peace? Do you really believe that? Fair enough if you do, however, having seen what I've seen, I don't agree with you.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>This is a long road. It will entail great struggle. It is a road we must tread carefully and deliberately. To stop and give up is not an option.

Dude, that si rhetoric that you babble as youplay teh national anthem in the backdrop, it doesn't address any issues.

Yes it does. It addresses the issue of surrender and disarmament you're advocating.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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And do you think they gove a shit about who's admin is in control?

I don't care what they think. I do care about who's running things based on how they're going to react. President Clinton did nothing. Nothing. A few cruise missiles here and there and let three chances to get bin Laden on a silver platter slip through his fingers.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,147]

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Interestingly, you hadn't been attacked before so with that logic, you must have been doing something right before. umm.

That's just silly talk right there...9/11, USS Cole, US Embassies Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, WTC 1...and that's just since the Cold War ended. We could throw in Berlin, Beirut, PanAm, Achille Lauro (Italian I know, but it was a US citizen singled out and killed), Tehran Hostages, a slew of other hi-jackings...take your pick....

In that case you also must include IED attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan, so we HAVE been attacked since 9/11.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.