Liars' scorecard

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Hmm...which President lied under oath?

Hmm...which President lied so he could send our men to war?

Blues,
Dave

But did he perjure himself in doing so?

Not that I'm aware of. Which is worse, lying to a judge in a civil case over a blowjob? Or lying to Congress so you can get permission kill thousands of Americans?

Blues,
Dave

Or lying about revealing the name of a federal agenmt cause her husband made of the dirty chimp.

[livendive 8]

Here, if you want an objective comparison of the two candidates' tax plans, try this on for size.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[normiss 893]

Excellent. Thanks

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Here, if you want an objective comparison of the two candidates' tax plans, try this on for size.

Blues,
Dave

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[downwardspiral 0]

Surprised? I am.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Here, if you want an objective comparison of the two candidates' tax plans, try this on for size.

Blues,
Dave

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

Absolutely.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Here, if you want an objective comparison of the two candidates' tax plans, try this on for size.

Blues,
Dave

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

Absolutely.

Blues,
Dave

I seem to recall something about insanity being when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

Reagan cut taxes. Presided over the biggest increase in debt in history to that point.

G.W. Bush cut taxes. Presided over the biggest increase in debt in history.

Both Reagan and Bush added more to the debt than all previous administrations before them combined.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

Quote

Surprised? I am.

I'm not surprised in the least. In order to get/keep power, both parties need to give as much as possible to their base, while pissing off as few as possible. The kids who can't yet vote are thus a very attractive (albeit short-sighted) source of income, and while the Republicans are worse than the Democrats, both parties are guilty of robbing the future blind.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

I agree! Which plans do you plan on cutting? I have about 20 off the top of my head that I would love to see get flushed. Cut the pork would be a great start.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 2,148]

Another one - this from the McCain campaign itself:

www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 893]

ALL of this "stuff" is just plain silly.
Beyond belief this time around.
Really.

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

ALL of this "stuff" is just plain silly.
Beyond belief this time around.
Really.

Presumably SOME people believe it all.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

Not that I'm aware of. Which is worse, lying to a judge in a civil case over a blowjob? Or lying to Congress so you can get permission kill thousands of Americans?

Blues,
Dave

Ugh :shakes head: Yes, the congressional record says exactly that.

Why do put so much effort into an argument and then discredit yourself with bullshit like that?

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Hmm...which President lied under oath?

Hmm...which President lied so he could send our men to war?

Blues,
Dave

But did he perjure himself in doing so?

Well. If you keep claiming executive privilege you don't have to worry about perjury. The world court is not gonna be so nice tho hopefully.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

I agree! Which plans do you plan on cutting? I have about 20 off the top of my head that I would love to see get flushed. Cut the pork would be a great start.

Let's see, Clinton cut the military, raised taxes and all did well, esp the rich. Your party of boobs has done the opposite and it's led to 2 recessions..... figure it out.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

I agree! Which plans do you plan on cutting? I have about 20 off the top of my head that I would love to see get flushed. Cut the pork would be a great start.

Let's see, Clinton cut the military, raised taxes and all did well, esp the rich. Your party of boobs has done the opposite and it's led to 2 recessions..... figure it out.

I guess that's why all those corporations moved overseas during that time, because they were doing SO well, hmm?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

And BOTH result in MORE DEBT.

It's time we started paying our way.

I agree! Which plans do you plan on cutting? I have about 20 off the top of my head that I would love to see get flushed. Cut the pork would be a great start.

Let's see, Clinton cut the military, raised taxes and all did well, esp the rich. Your party of boobs has done the opposite and it's led to 2 recessions..... figure it out.

I guess that's why all those corporations moved overseas during that time, because they were doing SO well, hmm?

Corporations leaving the country isn't a partisan thing, it's the American way. Disagree? Corp exodus occurred under Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush.

[normiss 893]

The same would be true in reverse.
Some inaccuracies and SOME people close their mind to the rest of the information.

[DanG 1]

I think a case could be made that corporations moved overseas during that time largely due to changes in technology.

The Internet allows for much better communication and networking between remote sites. FedEx put in a shipping system that allowed smaller comanies without their own shipping infrastructure to be competitive while using foreign labor. Reliable satelite telephony allowed easy access to large pools of help desk types in India, etc.

And I guess I always thought of the Republicans as the party of free trade. I guess not.

I'm all for free trade, but free trade in goods also means free trade in labor.

- Dan G

[kallend 2,148]

“When a species’ habitat (in this case, sea ice) is declining due to climate change, but there are no discrete human activities that can be regulated or modified to effect change, what do you do?”, Sarah Palin, letter to Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne, December 2006

"I'm not an Al Gore, doom-and-gloom environmentalist blaming the changes in our climate on human activity." Sarah Palin, Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, 12/4/2007

"A changing climate will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.", Sarah Palin, Newsmax interview, 8/29/2008

"Show me where I have ever said that there's absolute proof that nothing that man has ever conducted or engaged in has had any effect or no effect on climate change. I have not said that," Sarah Palin, interview with Charles Gibson, 9/2008

Hmmm. Is her nose getting longer?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

To McCain, the Truth is Expendable



Chapman's column it today's Chicago Tribune. Chapman is a Libertarian.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

Latest from factcheck.org:

Energetically Wrong
September 12, 2008
Palin says Alaska supplies 20 percent of U.S. energy. Not true. Not even close.
Summary
Palin claims Alaska "produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy." That's not true.

Alaska did produce 14 percent of all the oil from U.S. wells last year, but that's a far cry from all the "energy" produced in the U.S.

Alaska's share of domestic energy production was 3.5 percent, according to the official figures kept by the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

And if by "supply" Palin meant all the energy consumed in the U.S., and not just produced here, then Alaska's production accounted for only 2.4 percent.
Analysis
Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin sat down with ABC News' Charlie Gibson for an interview, part of which aired Sept. 11. In the exchange, the Alaska governor misstated a basic fact about her state's energy production:

Palin: Let me speak specifically about a credential that I do bring to this table, Charlie, and that's with the energy independence that I've been working on for these years as the governor of this state that produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy, that I worked on as chairman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, overseeing the oil and gas development in our state to produce more for the United States.

It's simply untrue that Alaska produces anything close to 20 percent of the U.S. "energy supply," a term that is generally defined as energy consumed. That category includes power produced in the U.S. by nuclear, coal, hydroelectric dams and other means – as well as all the oil imported into the country.

Palin would have been correct to say that Alaska produces just over 14 percent of all the oil produced in the U.S., leaving out imports and leaving out other forms of power. According to the federal government's Energy Information Administration, Alaskan wells produced 263.6 million barrels of oil in 2007, or 14.3 percent of the total U.S. production of 1.8 billion barrels.

But Alaskan production accounts for only 4.8 percent of all the crude oil and petroleum products supplied to the U.S. in 2007, counting both domestic production and imports from other nations. According to EIA, the total supply was just over 5.5 billion barrels in 2007.

Furthermore, Palin said "energy," not "oil," so she was actually much further off the mark. According to EIA, Alaska actually produced 2,417.1 trillion BTUs [British Thermal Units] of energy in 2005, the last year for which full state numbers are available. That's equal to just 3.5 percent of the country's domestic energy production.

And according to EIA analyst Paul Hess, that would calculate to only "2.4 percent of the 100,368.6 trillion BTUs the U.S. consumes."

Palin didn't make clear whether she was talking about Alaska's share of all the energy produced in the U.S. or all the energy consumed here. Either way, she was wrong.


McCain Gets It Wrong, Too


Sen. John McCain has also has used this inflated, incorrect figure. On Sept. 3, McCain told ABC News' Gibson:

McCain: Well, I think Americans are going to be very, very, very pleased. This is a very dynamic person. [Palin's] been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply.

McCain repeated the false figure more recently, in a September 11 interview with Portland, Maine, news station WCSH6.

Footnote: When we asked the McCain campaign where the 20 percent figure came from, we were referred to the Web site of the Resource Development Council for Alaska, Inc, a group that says it promotes development of Alaska's natural resources. It states:

Alaska Resource Development Council: Alaska's oil and gas industry has produced more than 16 billion barrels of oil and 6 billion cubic feet of natural gas, accounting for an average of 20 percent of the entire nation's domestic production.

This falls far short of supporting Palin's sweeping claim, however. It refers only to "oil and gas" production, not total energy. It refers only to production, not total consumption or supply. And the 20 percent figure is an "average" over many years, though the site does not say exactly how many. That makes it very much out of date, because Alaskan oil production has declined sharply in recent years. According to EIA figures Alaskan oil production has dropped 22 percent in the most recent five years alone.

And in case you are wondering, Alaska produces even less of the nation's natural gas than it does of its oil. EIA figures show Alaska accounted for just 1.9 percent of total U.S. natural gas production during the six months ending June 2008. And even that is dropping rapidly. The figure was 2.3 percent just two years earlier.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

mediamatters.org/items/200809220011

Another score for the McCain campaign.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/sep/24/johnmccain.congress

Are the liars lying to each other now?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

Time for an update:

www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/barack-obama/

www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/john-mccain/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.