Fellow POW: I will not vote for McCain

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals.

After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case - new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[BDashe 0]

Sounds like this guy is making it more personal/jealous that McCain is getting attention after a quick read. The media will do what it does, can't stop it.

All politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths, cuz most are lawyers wanting the popular vote. F*ck em all, ha ha!

Back to my hole, I just wanna jump!

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[downwardspiral 0]

I really can't decide who I'm going to vote for but after reading that piece I've decided the author is an ass. Seriously the guy calls Mcain a wild man at the academy accusing him of breaking every rule in the book and the best story he can come up with is jumping the wall to go to a bar? I was expecting at the very least a sexy shower scene involving McCain, 3 plebes, and 1 bar of soap.

This thread has had no effect in helping me make a decision.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

My thoughts exactly.

[DougH 270]

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I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

My thoughts exactly.

Wow, we can all agree on something.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

Yes, we should only make fun of Obama, his name, call him a Muslim, spread lies about him, spread mistruths, etc. Now, if a real opinion piece shows up against McCain that challenges his character....woa!!!! DONT GO OVERBOARD THERE BUDDY! WE CANT HAVE THAT.

This guy isnt swiftboating McCain. He was pestered by many military members to give his opinion because they knew who he was previous to this election and his relationship to McCain. Apples/Oranges.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[nerdgirl 0]

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Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

For me, that was the most interesting part. I hadn't thought about that correlation: long term effect of deleterious conditions on POW health and life expectancy. I can build plausible explanations to support as well as to counter. Would like to see some data supporting the assertion.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[downwardspiral 0]

Sorry but the only part questioning McCain's character was reffering to his time as a cadet at the Naval Academy. He speculates, with out proof, McCain only graduated due to his lineage. That specualtion alone discredited the author's opinion in my mind as it shows a huge bias against McCain dating all the way back into the 60's.

Also pointing out that he was tortured for 5 years while McCain was "only" tortured for 2 only shows what a tremendous ass the author truly is.

This piece does not carry as much weight as you think.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[rushmc 23]

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I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

So you will throw the baby out with the bath water?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I hope we don't have another group of swift boater types in this election. It was lame in the last election, and it's the same in this one.

Yes, we should only make fun of Obama, his name, call him a Muslim, spread lies about him, spread mistruths, etc. Now, if a real opinion piece shows up against McCain that challenges his character....woa!!!! DONT GO OVERBOARD THERE BUDDY! WE CANT HAVE THAT.

This guy isnt swiftboating McCain. He was pestered by many military members to give his opinion because they knew who he was previous to this election and his relationship to McCain. Apples/Oranges.

Oh ya
Just like the guys did with Kerry? Only with a much lamer story?

K, I got it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Sorry but the only part questioning McCain's character was reffering to his time as a cadet at the Naval Academy. He speculates, with out proof, McCain only graduated due to his lineage. That specualtion alone discredited the author's opinion in my mind as it shows a huge bias against McCain dating all the way back into the 60's.

Also pointing out that he was tortured for 5 years while McCain was "only" tortured for 2 only shows what a tremendous ass the author truly is.

This piece does not carry as much weight as you think.

Very well stated. So this does not come close to an equal of Kerry's switf boat bs.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,148]

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Quote

Sorry but the only part questioning McCain's character was reffering to his time as a cadet at the Naval Academy. He speculates, with out proof, McCain only graduated due to his lineage. That specualtion alone discredited the author's opinion in my mind as it shows a huge bias against McCain dating all the way back into the 60's.

Also pointing out that he was tortured for 5 years while McCain was "only" tortured for 2 only shows what a tremendous ass the author truly is.

This piece does not carry as much weight as you think.

Very well stated. So this does not come close to an equal of Kerry's switf boat bs.

So you now admit that the SBVFT claims about Kerry were BS. Make a little progress every day!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

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Sorry but the only part questioning McCain's character was reffering to his time as a cadet at the Naval Academy. He speculates, with out proof, McCain only graduated due to his lineage. That specualtion alone discredited the author's opinion in my mind as it shows a huge bias against McCain dating all the way back into the 60's.

Also pointing out that he was tortured for 5 years while McCain was "only" tortured for 2 only shows what a tremendous ass the author truly is.

This piece does not carry as much weight as you think.

Very well stated. So this does not come close to an equal of Kerry's switf boat bs.

So you now admit that the SBVFT claims about Kerry were BS. Make a little progress every day!

Nice spin (yet again) but I would expect no less from you sir

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln