If a ship hit an iceberg and sank today...

[birdlike 0]

...Would they still do the "women and children first" thing?

Do we live in an age when men, simply by virtue of their gender, would be forced to risk peril loading into lifeboats last?

Or would it be done on any other basis? I understand the social convention of guaranteeing the safety of children first, but what's the consensus about women going before men or not, anymore?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[nanook 1]

Women, mostly, still takes care of children as a single parent.

Single women; I don't know.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[birdlike 0]

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Women, mostly, still takes care of children as a single parent.

Single women; I don't know.

Well, would the hands helping to man the lifeboats (funny, they "MAN" the lifeboats with women and children first...) stand there checking to see if the women boarding have kids, whether present or at home waiting?

Doesn't your answer discount the fact that there are still plenty of father-only households as well? One would think from your response that women can be single parents, but men cannot be.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[nanook 1]

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Well, would the hands helping to man the lifeboats (funny, they "MAN" the lifeboats with women and children first...) stand there checking to see if the women boarding have kids, whether present or at home waiting?

Nope. Ship's sinking. SOS. Everybodygetthefukoff. "Thank you for sailing Stromboli Cruizeline. We know that you had a choice in picking Cruises, and boy did you pick wrong"

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Doesn't your answer discount the fact that there are still plenty of father-only households as well? One would think from your response that women can be single parents, but men cannot be

It does discount. Single fathers are so rare as it is that it's not worth counting.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

A good question, I don't think it would happen anymore, not many gentlemen left in the world today... But I have another question for you. If you were on the boat in Batman (Dark Knight) with the civillians and had the trigger for the bomb on the boat load of convicts would you have pressed te button?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[shropshire 0]

If you strap enough fat, burger munching kids together, then you could make several extra life rafts. Then the blokes could survive too

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[birdlike 0]

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A good question, I don't think it would happen anymore, not many gentlemen left in the world today...

I would not think that it would--or should--come down to that.

We are told that women and men are equals, and are entitled to EQUAL treatment. None of the "some are more equal than others" bullshit. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal rights... and then we get to "who picks up the dinner check" and things go to shit.

I wanted to know, in good faith, what the current protocol is on ships and stuff.

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But I have another question for you. If you were on the boat in Batman (Dark Knight) with the civillians and had the trigger for the bomb on the boat load of convicts would you have pressed te button?

Don't think I didn't ask that question of myself when I saw it. I think I would not have been willing to push the button--and I cheered the big black dude when he did the right thing (and then immediately thought, "Yeah, like that would ever happen, though. Condemned criminal suddenly grows a heart of gold? Suuuure.")

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Andy9o8 2]

Today, it would have to be whomever carries the largest debt gets the first spots on the lifeboats. Can't have the banks failing.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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...Would they still do the "women and children first" thing?

Do we live in an age when men, simply by virtue of their gender, would be forced to risk peril loading into lifeboats last?

Or would it be done on any other basis? I understand the social convention of guaranteeing the safety of children first, but what's the consensus about women going before men or not, anymore?

It would be:

1) Children
2) women
3) spacemen
4) sort of an idealized version of a typical Renaissance man.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Skyrad 0]

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Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal rights... and then we get to "who picks up the dinner check" and things go to shit.

LMAO... I never bought into that who equal nonsense, women are not equal to men sometimes they have the advantage over men and sometimes the other way round, equal? No

As for you not blowing up the boat I understand. "Why blow them up all at the same time when you can fry them one at a time" right?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[birdlike 0]

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As for you not blowing up the boat I understand. "Why blow them up all at the same time when you can fry them one at a time" right?

Yeah, besides, it's not like I would've even gotten to see it happen. Where's the fun in that?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[NovaTTT 2]

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I would not think that it would--or should--come down to that.

We are told that women and men are equals, and are entitled to EQUAL treatment.

There is the valid and time-tested axiom First Among Equals.

In this case, as in all exigent or emergency situations, the women (and children) should and ought to be saved first.

.02

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[billvon 3,120]

>Well, would the hands helping to man the lifeboats (funny, they "MAN"
>the lifeboats with women and children first...) stand there checking to see
>if the women boarding have kids, whether present or at home waiting?

Last big boat I was on - yes.

[birdlike 0]

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I would not think that it would--or should--come down to that.

We are told that women and men are equals, and are entitled to EQUAL treatment.

There is the valid and time-tested axiom First Among Equals.

In this case, as in all exigent or emergency situations, the women (and children) should and ought to be saved first.

.02

Is it out of line for me to ask that rather than simply STATE that, you DEFEND it?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[NovaTTT 2]

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Is it out of line for me to ask that rather than simply STATE that, you DEFEND it?

No. If you're referring to "first among equals", this concept is perhaps most strongly demonstrated in early societies where a leader was chosen from among a group of equals. The leader did not become more than or better than, only the voice of, as it were. The early Christian church also followed this policy. The pope was chosen leader as a first among equals, and there were two equal popes - one in Constantinople and one in Rome. The Schism can be rightly considered due to, in large part, the self-perceived grandeur of one of those popes, but that is a different topic on which I will abstain.

In America the ancient custom was brought to the continent and practiced by the earliest settlers, whom we today call "native Americans".

There are myriad other demonstrations of this policy, but I use these examples because I believe they clearly illustrate the point. I hope my example is sufficient.

Nova

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[DJL 235]

On modern ships if the evac is organized then the crew is going to load their section regardless of gender. The last thing they want is a bunch of guys standing around to fuck up the works and make it so they can drop their boats and go find their own.

Disorganized modern evac: The Italian Captain gets the fuck off and the Algerian Crew follow suit leaving the lounge singer and his band to deal with it.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[vortexring 0]

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A good question, I don't think it would happen anymore, not many gentlemen left in the world today... But I have another question for you. If you were on the boat in Batman (Dark Knight) with the civillians and had the trigger for the bomb on the boat load of convicts would you have pressed te button?

Only if I could watch the resulting explosion.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[FreeflyChile 0]

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A good question, I don't think it would happen anymore, not many gentlemen left in the world today...

I would not think that it would--or should--come down to that.

We are told that women and men are equals, and are entitled to EQUAL treatment. None of the "some are more equal than others" bullshit. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal rights... and then we get to "who picks up the dinner check" and things go to shit.

I wanted to know, in good faith, what the current protocol is on ships and stuff.

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But I have another question for you. If you were on the boat in Batman (Dark Knight) with the civillians and had the trigger for the bomb on the boat load of convicts would you have pressed te button?

Don't think I didn't ask that question of myself when I saw it. I think I would not have been willing to push the button--and I cheered the big black dude when he did the right thing (and then immediately thought, "Yeah, like that would ever happen, though. Condemned criminal suddenly grows a heart of gold? Suuuure.")

My dilemma with the explosives on the ships in Batman would have just been "what if this is a trick and this trigger actually detonates OUR ship"?

[lawrocket 3]

I think it depends on the person:

1) Conservative man - will save the women and children and go down with the ship. He'd never hear the end of it from his friends if he didn't. Besides, he's got life insurance that will take care of his family.

2) Liberal man - will save the children, but will save himself before the womym. He is all about equal rights, and believes that in doing so, his right to living is equal to that of the womyn. Furthermore, he can take credit for saving all of the children, and crusade for safety, mounting a grass roots campaign for the presidency.

3) The conservative woman - will save herself and the children, and let the man know that it is his duty to die like a gentleman. She will be rescued and honor the men for their bravery.

4) Liberal woman - will fight for herself and other women - it was pea-brained men who hit the iceberg, anyway. Figures.

5) Animal Rights Activists - save the animals and themselves.

6) Environmentalists - save themselves, and survey the damage done to the iceberg, weeping at the giant gash in it, and the thought that icebergs may be a thing of the past with global warming.

7) Neo-Cons - curse Al Qaeda for planting the iceberg. Save themselves and vow revenge on those responsible.

8) French - "Iceberg? Nous capitulons."

9) Skydivers in Incidents Forum:
"You can't rely on anyone else to save you in that situation. You gotta think on your feet and fight it till the bitter end and save yourself. Lesson learned - practice your EPs."
"This choice could have been prevented with an automatic inflating life jacket. It's tragic that people just don't listen to reason."
"Well, the life jacket could cause more problems than it solves. What if it inflated prematurely? Then you can't get out of the porthole and you'll be stuck in a watery grave."

10) Neo-Democrats - "Save all of the third class and stearage passengers. This ship worked fine under the Clinton Admin. The rich and corporate types caused this to happen."

11) Unions Workers - "You expect me to let you live? I'm just gonna sit here and wait for the foreman to tell me what to do. What? The Captain? The Captain can't tell me what to to abandon shift. I've got my schedule, and if I abandon my shift, I'll lose out on overtime. So I'll sit here and wait till a steward lets me know what's up."

12) Libertarians - "Who is gonna tell me whether I must stick behind. This is survival of the fittest. Kids? Okay - they can get a pass because they are not yet fully capable and trained. I'll take one with me on that raft. Those other poor souls just waiting? Iive got my own needs to satisfy here."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[downwardspiral 0]

well done

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[georgerussia 0]

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...Would they still do the "women and children first" thing?

Just for the record, it wasn't always "women and children first" before. I remember one case where only one woman was rescued after a shipwreck.

P.S. Depending on situation, your survival chances might be better if you stay on a ship.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[doug925 0]

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I understand the social convention of guaranteeing the safety of children first,

Screw that! Outa the way junior!

I have never developed indigestion from eating my words.
Winston Churchill

[shropshire 0]

Exactly ... they've not lived so long, so don't know what they're missing.... anyway, we can always get more kids... easy come [sic] easy go.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[birdlike 0]

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Is it out of line for me to ask that rather than simply STATE that, you DEFEND it?

No. If you're referring to "first among equals", this concept is perhaps most strongly demonstrated in early societies where a leader was chosen from among a group of equals. The leader did not become more than or better than, only the voice of, as it were. The early Christian church also followed this policy. The pope was chosen leader as a first among equals, and there were two equal popes - one in Constantinople and one in Rome. The Schism can be rightly considered due to, in large part, the self-perceived grandeur of one of those popes, but that is a different topic on which I will abstain.

In America the ancient custom was brought to the continent and practiced by the earliest settlers, whom we today call "native Americans".

There are myriad other demonstrations of this policy, but I use these examples because I believe they clearly illustrate the point. I hope my example is sufficient.

Nova

No, it's not. I was asking for the justification for doing it. You just gave me examples about leaders.

I'm not asking about leaders. I want to know why some woman -- no world or tribal leader, just some soccer mom -- should get into a lifeboat before, say, a male cardiac surgeon, or a male aeronautical engineer, just because she is female, opening the possibility that these males will not survive the sinking as a result of being deprived of her lifeboat space.

You haven't gone anywhere near to defending that policy, which is what I politely asked you to do.

I don't think we need to dwell on the notion that a "first among equals" has, in fact, ceased to be an "equal" by mere virtue of now being "first among" them. He has rights, privileges, and prerogatives that exceed what they have. He is their better, not their equal.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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My dilemma with the explosives on the ships in Batman would have just been "what if this is a trick and this trigger actually detonates OUR ship"?

Yeah, it was pretty stupid to use that as a plot device, given that it is wholly unreasonable to expect that THE JOKER can be taken at his word!

He was all about creating chaos. It would be just like him to pull that kind of "joke."

I loved Ledger's portrayal -- it was masterful -- but the plot was just as inane as any other Batman film.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire