Relevant quote by H.D. Thoreau

[birdlike 0]

"I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government."


I like it!

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[akarunway 1]

Quote

"I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government."


I like it!

"I'll take a slice of anarchy pie" I like pie!

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[masterrig 1]

How about starting with getting rid of lobbyists!!! Period! No more than two terms for senators and congressmen. A 'flat rate' income tax. No more loop-holes, for anyone! How's that for starters?


Chuck

[Ron 10]

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How about starting with getting rid of lobbyists!!! Period! No more than two terms for senators and congressmen. A 'flat rate' income tax. No more loop-holes, for anyone! How's that for starters?

Like a dream come true

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[birdlike 0]

Quote

How about starting with getting rid of lobbyists!!! Period! No more than two terms for senators and congressmen. A 'flat rate' income tax. No more loop-holes, for anyone! How's that for starters?

Chuck

There are advocates for a "fair tax" and a "flat tax" (I haven't looked into the specific points of either).

I don't agree that it would be a victory for the People if their option to re-elect a true statesman who's been doing a great job were taken away statutorily.

I would love to see the money taken out of politics, yes, but the abolition of "lobbying" would be a mistake.

Anyone from the New York area? Ever heard of "NYPIRG"? New York Public Interest Research Group. They LOBBY for PUBLIC INTEREST issues. Presumably nobly. The fact is, legislators are expected to vote in support of or in opposition to a huge variety of legislative items. They simply cannot be knowledgeable about all of those subjects. The real purpose of lobbyists is to inform[/] legislators. If there was a way to allow them to accomplish this without ANY MONEY being involved, we should do that. But abolishing lobbying itself is not a good idea, necessarily.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

How about starting with getting rid of lobbyists!!! Period! No more than two terms for senators and congressmen. A 'flat rate' income tax. No more loop-holes, for anyone! How's that for starters?

Chuck

There are advocates for a "fair tax" and a "flat tax" (I haven't looked into the specific points of either).

I don't agree that it would be a victory for the People if their option to re-elect a true statesman who's been doing a great job were taken away statutorily.

I would love to see the money taken out of politics, yes, but the abolition of "lobbying" would be a mistake.

Anyone from the New York area? Ever heard of "NYPIRG"? New York Public Interest Research Group. They LOBBY for PUBLIC INTEREST issues. Presumably nobly. The fact is, legislators are expected to vote in support of or in opposition to a huge variety of legislative items. They simply cannot be knowledgeable about all of those subjects. The real purpose of lobbyists is to inform[/] legislators. If there was a way to allow them to accomplish this without ANY MONEY being involved, we should do that. But abolishing lobbying itself is not a good idea, necessarily.

Information like a new Mercedes or a trip to Tahiti. That's all they want the representitive to know about their 'project'. Lobbyists were even at the Democrat party convention. They all found the loop-holes so they could attend. I understand real well, how the system works. A good example of this was right here in Texas. Our governor was pushing an 'anti' cancer drug on every school age girl in the state. Turns-out, the damned drug hadn't been fully tested or gotten FDA approval! The reason we have so damned much over spending on 'pet projects' and frivilous things is... lobbyists. Get rid of them. It's a damned good idea!!!
O.K., a certain senator did real good for two terms. Give someone else a chance to do some good. Lord knows, we have plenty of people!
Loopholes in the tax system has just caused more grief than good, over the years. No loop-holes... big business pays their fair share, just like the little guys.


Chuck

[birdlike 0]

Chuck, were you not paying attention when I said that we need to take the MONEY out of lobbying, but not the lobbying itself?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[masterrig 1]

I got your point about 'no money'.
I was just pointing-out, that even though lobbyists are not allowed at certain functions, they found the 'loop-holes'. Do away with the lobby system all together. No 'loop-holes', no 'bribes'. Wouldn't that put everyone with a 'special interest' on an even keel?

Chuck

[birdlike 0]

Then you'd just have a bunch of legislators either getting NO voting done, or they'd be voting in complete ignorance on a variety of issues instead of just partial.

We already know that they DO NOT READ the legislation they vote on.

Now you want to throw out the GOOD lobbyists (like, say, organizations that inform the legislators about environment concerns) with the bad? Makes no sense. Would not accomplish an overall good.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[masterrig 1]

Check the records of just how much time senators and congressmen actually 'work'. They just have someone else vote for them. It's easy. All someone has to do is push either the 'yea' or 'nay' button for whoever isn't there.
True story.
Good lobbyists? I had no idea there was such a thing. Most of the environmentalist lobbyists are no different than any other lobbyist! They just tell senators and congressmen what they want them to know and leave the rest of the story out. Lobbyists know how to play the 'game'. They all know the loop-holes and 'ins' and 'outs'. I think, congressmen and senators should have to read all of what they are voting on. That's never going to happen. Lobbyists account for a good portion of the frivilous spending by our government. Right now, General Electric stands to make billions by means of all this 'green' business.


Chuck