Do you think it was wrong for the DNC to go back on its decision to strip MI and FL of delegates for breaking party rules?

[birdlike 0]

Please explain your position if you would.

When I learned that the Democratic National Committee had decided to change its mind (and break its own rules, essentially) and grant delegates to Michigan and Florida even though, after warnings, those states held early primaries in contravention of the DNC rules, I felt that this was typical of Democrats.

They don't like the results if they stick to the rules, so they bend them, they get creative. Very similar to the way they read the Constitution. Ever heard a Democrat "read" the 2nd Amendment? They almost invariably change the actual wording, kind of like they are unable to help themselves. They start saying stuff like, "...in the service of a militia" as though those words are there in the copy!

More importantly, they refuse to stick to their own statements or commitments. I find it appallingly unprincipled. This decision speaks horribly of Democrats' judgment and respect for rules. I feel it is emblematic of them.

What do the rest of you think?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[TheAnvil 0]

I'm not a Democrat and really don't care. Let them do as they like - it's their party after all.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[birdlike 0]

I'm not a Democrat, either. (I'm also not a Republican! I know, right?!)

But let's remember, these people who won't stick to enforcement of their own rules, who are roundly criticized for not applying criminal sanctions forcefully enough in the real world (i.e. "soft-on-crime", a well-known criticism of Democrats) are looking to rule the country.

Is this how they would be doing it? Why should we believe otherwise?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[TheAnvil 0]

I see, but I still just don't care. Let them do as they like. That group likes to set its own rules, not follow them, then howl about others not following their own rules. I haven't given them $0.02 of credibility in years.

But that could be my dislike of their platform clouding my thoughts. Still, I just don't give a rats ass what they do at their convention. I'm not a member and don't have (or want) a voice in that regard.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[birdlike 0]

All the same, I do want people far and wide to be alerted to how they are; and I would like if their support eroded right out from under them when their starry-eyed voters started seeing them for the lying scumbags and hypocrites they truly are.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[lawrocket 3]

That is difficult to say. On one hand, they probably should have never instituted that rule. It was fairly draconian as party penalties go. So it was a way of fixing it.

On the other hand, the rules are the rules. You make the rules, play by them. I agree with Vinnie that it is their party, but I will never accept anybody who makes rules and changes them when there is all benefit tot them and no penalty.

Still, the delegates serve no useful purpose anymore. It is pointless now because it won't make any difference. I am disappointed in Obama. His suggestion to count them all now is disingenuous. It would have made a difference six months ago.

P.s. I would have had little respect for him had he suggested changing six months ago, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[TheAnvil 0]

I think they're a bunch of scumbag hypocrites too - many of them at any rate; there are quite a few good people who vote democrat - but still don't give a rat's ass. If they want to run their party that way - by all means, let them do so. Point it out later when they're accusing someone else of hypocrisy.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[sfc 1]

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Please explain your position if you would.

When I learned that the Democratic National Committee had decided to change its mind (and break its own rules, essentially) and grant delegates to Michigan and Florida even though, after warnings, those states held early primaries in contravention of the DNC rules, I felt that this was typical of Democrats.

They don't like the results if they stick to the rules, so they bend them, they get creative. Very similar to the way they read the Constitution. Ever heard a Democrat "read" the 2nd Amendment? They almost invariably change the actual wording, kind of like they are unable to help themselves. They start saying stuff like, "...in the service of a militia" as though those words are there in the copy!

More importantly, they refuse to stick to their own statements or commitments. I find it appallingly unprincipled. This decision speaks horribly of Democrats' judgment and respect for rules. I feel it is emblematic of them.

What do the rest of you think?

You are scared shitless that Obama might win so you are throwing as much crap at them as you can with little or no regard for the truth, this post is just another example.

Boring is what I think of your post, you are like a broken record.

[kelpdiver 2]

Ultimately it's about giving a few hundred party diehards entrance to the show. The votes no longer mean anything, but those people still want to go to Denver.

I don't have an issue with the end result - those votes were invalidated, had no bearing on the choice of Obama (in fact, would have prolonged the affair). The states were punished.

But let's not kid ourselves - both states are key in the election and it's stupid for the party to hurt itself now, as much as you'd like them to.

If it were CA or TX, they might not have bothered.

[birdlike 0]

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Please explain your position if you would.

When I learned that the Democratic National Committee had decided to change its mind (and break its own rules, essentially) and grant delegates to Michigan and Florida even though, after warnings, those states held early primaries in contravention of the DNC rules, I felt that this was typical of Democrats.

They don't like the results if they stick to the rules, so they bend them, they get creative. Very similar to the way they read the Constitution. Ever heard a Democrat "read" the 2nd Amendment? They almost invariably change the actual wording, kind of like they are unable to help themselves. They start saying stuff like, "...in the service of a militia" as though those words are there in the copy!

More importantly, they refuse to stick to their own statements or commitments. I find it appallingly unprincipled. This decision speaks horribly of Democrats' judgment and respect for rules. I feel it is emblematic of them.

What do the rest of you think?

You are scared shitless that Obama might win so you are throwing as much crap at them as you can with little or no regard for the truth, this post is just another example.

Boring is what I think of your post, you are like a broken record.

Once again, you fail to say anything about what you believe, but you impute all kinds of beliefs (or fears) to others. All you know how to do is point fingers, it's clear. You never come into a thread and state your position. All you do is take cheap pussy potshots at the positions of others.

If I'm like a broken record, tell me where the abundance of posts I've made about Obama are located. I mostly stick to guns, and everyone knows that.

And where in my post am I "throwing crap" at Democrats? I made a reasoned assertion that they are not playing by their own rules and therefore deserve to lose credibility. There are folks here already avowing their agreement with me on that. How is pointing out a political party's hypocrisy "throwing crap"?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Ultimately it's about giving a few hundred party diehards entrance to the show. The votes no longer mean anything, but those people still want to go to Denver.

I don't have an issue with the end result - those votes were invalidated, had no bearing on the choice of Obama (in fact, would have prolonged the affair). The states were punished.

But let's not kid ourselves - both states are key in the election and it's stupid for the party to hurt itself now, as much as you'd like them to.

If it were CA or TX, they might not have bothered.

They're putting their shallowness and pettiness on display, though, are they not?

Seriously, what does it say to the American public (or the world) that the Democrats said and said and said and said and said and said, "Those states have lost their delegates because they did not adhere to the party's primary rules"? And then, after months and months of that: "Ah, we didn't mean that. Changed our minds about the very thing we were adamant about for so long."

Incredible. As long as the sheep who voted in the primaries get to feel, "Oooh, my vote counted! (yeah, right) they will look the other way when their own party does something very unbecoming.

You know, I asked the poll in a non-leading, non-pushing, straightforward way; it didn't "make sissies out of people for holding an opinion". I get no credit for that, though, huh? It was an honest poll about a nationwide subject of discussion in current events. Still, people want to chastise me on it. Pettiness.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[rushmc 23]

I think you need a "I don't care as I am not a Dem" choice.

Their game, their rules, their choice. They, the DNC, will have to deal with the fallout should there be any.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sfc 1]

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You know, I asked the poll in a non-leading, non-pushing, straightforward way; it didn't "make sissies out of people for holding an opinion". I get no credit for that, though, huh? It was an honest poll about a nationwide subject of discussion in current events. Still, people want to chastise me on it. Pettiness.

Honest poll, I don't think so, it was an attempt to discredit the dems in the middle of an election, do you think people are that stupid that they couldn't see through it?

[rushmc 23]

Honest poll, I don't think so, it was an attempt to discredit the dems in the middle of an election, do you think people are that stupid that they couldn't see through it?

[kelpdiver 2]

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You know, I asked the poll in a non-leading, non-pushing, straightforward way; it didn't "make sissies out of people for holding an opinion". I get no credit for that, though, huh? It was an honest poll about a nationwide subject of discussion in current events. Still, people want to chastise me on it. Pettiness.

did you want a medal?

stop being a candyass - if you post on SC, you're going to get criticized. That's the fucking point of this forum.

And sorry to say, my post went over your head. Either you can't, or you won't understand that this is an election. The point of the primary process is to pick a winning candidate. Everything else is secondary. (take the GOP bandwagon on Bush in 1999 at the expense of McCain)

[Pendejo 0]

I think that what happened in FL and MI was sad. It was sad that those people did not have the chance to vote for what they wanted. It was also sad that they had all the drama to live with because their officials made a poor choice.

That being said, I think that the biggest reason they are seating them now is to try to bring them back into the process. I have friends who live in both states who are really pissed that the situation was so screwed up. Some of them initially said “screw it, I won’t vote this time around.” But after a little cooling off they came back to feeling that voting is one of the rights that everyone should exercise.

One of the other posters said it already but its worth saying again I guess... Those two states are important in the general election, so you really can’t blame them for trying to do what they are doing. They need them if they are going to win in the long run.

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

[birdlike 0]

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I think you need a "I don't care as I am not a Dem" choice.

Their game, their rules, their choice. They, the DNC, will have to deal with the fallout should there be any.

Well, too late for me to change it.

But I disagree that people who are not Democrat voters should be barred from caring, or not expected to have an opinion about it. I can still look at what they've done and say, "Wait a minute. Why the turnaround? They set the rule, the rule was broken, the rule-breakers were warned with plenty of notice, did it anyway, and now they're essentially being rewarded! This makes these people look like a bunch of anarchist hypocrites. 'Fuck the rules! When they're inconvenient, ignore them!' " How can we let people like this run things?!

My whole POINT is, "Where is the fallout for them about having done this?"!! There should rightly be fallout! People (both sides) should be condemning this and viewing the Dems more negatively because of this shitty-judgment decision. That's what I was getting at.

But at least I worded the poll fairly.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You know, I asked the poll in a non-leading, non-pushing, straightforward way; it didn't "make sissies out of people for holding an opinion". I get no credit for that, though, huh? It was an honest poll about a nationwide subject of discussion in current events. Still, people want to chastise me on it. Pettiness.

did you want a medal?

stop being a candyass - if you post on SC, you're going to get criticized. That's the fucking point of this forum.

Oh please. I wasn't asking for "a medal." It's just funny how selective some jerks are about picking on something, and in order to pick on it they have to PRETEND that it's all you ever do. When you disprove them, they pretend you never did.

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And sorry to say, my post went over your head. Either you can't, or you won't understand that this is an election. The point of the primary process is to pick a winning candidate. Everything else is secondary.

No, that's not "over my head." I know that. But my point is, how much respect is due a political organization that won't even adhere to its own clearly defined rules? What should a country expect from such people down the road? They make themselves look like a fuckin' joke, like a high school sophomore class council trying to keep order amongst themselves. Pitiful and amateurish and juvenile.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You know, I asked the poll in a non-leading, non-pushing, straightforward way; it didn't "make sissies out of people for holding an opinion". I get no credit for that, though, huh? It was an honest poll about a nationwide subject of discussion in current events. Still, people want to chastise me on it. Pettiness.

Honest poll, I don't think so, it was an attempt to discredit the dems in the middle of an election, do you think people are that stupid that they couldn't see through it?

It was a fair question about people's view of something that actually happened that's in the news and is worthy of being discussed. Democrats can't whine about it being discussed just because it's unflattering toward them. "An attempt to discredit them"? IT discredits them.

Did I bring it up because I want people to see that they Dems do disgusting things and don't care about breaking even their own rules? Yes. I made no effort to conceal that -- it was bound to be obvious -- but I am not under any kind of ethical obligation to "leave it alone" simply because it makes Dems look bad before an election. The whole process is about people making candidates look either bad or good and helping voters see what they might be getting if they vote for a particular candidate. I don't know what you are complaining about.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Erroll 80]

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I do think that some may be stupid enough to try and say this pole is something it is not however.

Why would the pole pretend to be something else? Are poles not allowed to vote in this poll, or what?

[birdlike 0]

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I think that what happened in FL and MI was sad. It was sad that those people did not have the chance to vote for what they wanted. It was also sad that they had all the drama to live with because their officials made a poor choice.

Those people DID get to vote, my friend.
It was their own state party leaders who fucked them out of having their votes count toward the national nomination.

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That being said, I think that the biggest reason they are seating them now is to try to bring them back into the process.

Is that a fancy, euphemistic way of saying that the national party leaders finally got wise (it takes Dems a long time to wise up to things that are obvious to others) that if they didn't kiss the ass of these voters, they stood a good chance of telling the Democratic presidential nominee to go FUCK himself, and vote McCain to punish the party?

Yeah, I think it is.

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I have friends who live in both states who are really pissed that the situation was so screwed up. Some of them initially said “screw it, I won’t vote this time around.” But after a little cooling off they came back to feeling that voting is one of the rights that everyone should exercise.

You're right, they should exercise it: but why on earth would the exercise it to vote FOR the people who initially were FUCKING THEM OVER to start with?!

If anything, they should now be wise to just how little the national DNC gives a fuck about them, and be finding someone else worth voting for.

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One of the other posters said it already but its worth saying again I guess... Those two states are important in the general election, so you really can’t blame them for trying to do what they are doing. They need them if they are going to win in the long run.

Why should these voters in these states now still want the Dems to win? Wasn't this debacle enough to show them two important things: that the Dems didn't care about them a few months ago (and shouldn't be believed to now) and that the Dems are an ethically bankrupt party that didn't deserve their votes in the first place back when they cast them?

Face one simple fact: this turnaround doesn't really have ANY MEANING in a practical sense, and we all know that, so its only purpose is to KISS THE ASSES OF VOTERS THAT DEMOCRATS THEMSELVES DISENFRANCHISED, because like you said, without those two states' Dem voters remaining loyal (ironically, to a party that was not loyal to them) they will LOSE IN NOVEMBER.

It is such a transparent vote-retention ploy, it's sickening.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[rushmc 23]

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I think you need a "I don't care as I am not a Dem" choice.

Their game, their rules, their choice. They, the DNC, will have to deal with the fallout should there be any.

Well, too late for me to change it.

But I disagree that people who are not Democrat voters should be barred from caring, or not expected to have an opinion about it. I can still look at what they've done and say, "Wait a minute. Why the turnaround? They set the rule, the rule was broken, the rule-breakers were warned with plenty of notice, did it anyway, and now they're essentially being rewarded! This makes these people look like a bunch of anarchist hypocrites. 'Fuck the rules! When they're inconvenient, ignore them!' " How can we let people like this run things?!

My whole POINT is, "Where is the fallout for them about having done this?"!! There should rightly be fallout! People (both sides) should be condemning this and viewing the Dems more negatively because of this shitty-judgment decision. That's what I was getting at.

But at least I worded the poll fairly.

Maybe I was not clear either. I agree with you however, these are rules they put into place not laws (although if they dont agree with a law they ignore it too)

I am not bared from caring, I just choose not to care

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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I do think that some may be stupid enough to try and say this pole is something it is not however.

Why would the pole pretend to be something else? Are poles not allowed to vote in this poll, or what?

Crazy pole, it needs to grow up

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

You are scared shitless that Obama might win so you are throwing as much crap at them as you can with little or no regard for the truth, this post is just another example.

.

Not so much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[klingeme 1]

I also think it is wrong that the DNC says that if the election is close, we don't care what the people think, we'll let the elite (super delegates) make the decision if it is close, but that is following the party rules, and I still think it is wrong.