I'd like to hear the naysayers explain why this piece of shit shouldn't fry

[birdlike 0]

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I was intending to make good on the debt incurred by the wager, even though I did not consider it a settled issue that you had truly won.

First, I met the condition of the bet, without question. Second, if you had intended to pay, why have you come up with excuse after excuse why you won't?

Excuses? No. We simply have not been able to come to an agreeable compromise. I offered you several, and you declined them. I simply am not on the hook to dig into my pocket for any more than one U.S. dollar, period. And I did not agree to make a proxy payment to the ACLU prior to the bet going into effect. You can twist this all you want, but it won't change that.

It also won't change the fact that you're being ridiculous following me from thread to thread about your petty little disagreement, engaging in the discourteous practice of hijacking the threads for your own petty purpose. Try thinking that there might be more than just you and me in this thread, as well as in others. How many will you pollute with this garbage?

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Do you not live in the real world? I gave you the opportunity (which still stands) to post proof of a $1 donation to the ACLU. That would save you any fees associated with your responsibility of delivering the funds to me.

Why can't you fucking get it through your head that I AM NOT DONATING MONEY TO THE FUCKING ACLU, OK?!

I did not agree to it, so if you claim that I welshed on the bet in that regard, you're full of shit.

And I said I was willing to donate the dollar to the USPA. You are standing here in front of fellow skydivers declining that offer, which I think is pretty disgusting. Why you are acting so small and unwilling to greet that compromise half-way I cannot understand. I am already extending to you the courtesy of going beyond what I agreed to in the wager:
- whose terms you did not meet to my satisfaction
- whose satisfaction we have no agreed-upon judge of outside of ourselves and our failed attempts to agree
- in which I agreed to be held liable for ONE DOLLAR, not "one dollar plus delivery fees made payable to PayPal."

Time to grow up.

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It would be comical to watch someone sell out their personal credibility over such a small amount if it wasn't so pathetically sad.

If you think this is a legitimate test of "someone's personal credibility," then that's what's sad.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Only in America plebs put numbers after their name

WTF is with that?

Is it better to live in a country with overt recognition of who is a "pleb" and who is a "patrician"?

Maybe you'd prefer to replace the "land of opportunity" with "stay in your fuckin' CASTE!" as the motto of the U.S.?

The fact that you condescend to people as though you have the standing to call them "pleb" says a lot about you.

Firstly, my comment has nothing to do with the Caste system but if you wish to stop Hindu liberals reforming their religion in the USA then thats up to you.
Secondly the distinction was between Royalty and the middle and working class with no reference to where I do or don't stand anywhere in the text either directly or indirectly.
As for Plebs I refer you to the account below (taken from Wikipedia as I don't want to invest any more time than I have to in your education.)

So you see the distinction is between the ruling class (eg: Royalty) and the citizens, who could be wealthy and influential people. The fact that you look down your nose at plebs therefore says allot more about your feelings of class inferiority than it does anything about me in anyway shape or form dear boy.

Now you're trying to piss on my leg and convince me it's raining.

Look, your distortion and obfuscation are out there for everyone to see.

YOU made the comment, with clear implications, about so-called "plebs" having the audacity to put numbers after their names; it was implied by your comment that this was the purview of royalty--of the "social betters" of the plebeians.

The general, contemporary use of "pleb" is to denote that a person is an UNDERCLASS person. There is nothing in my post that can be taken to mean that I myself view people in categories of "pleb" and "patrician." You did that. In your post, it was clear that your implication was a disapproval of presumptuousness by "plebs." What'samatter, did you get confused about which text came from whom?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[jcd11235 0]

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Excuses? No.

Then why hasn't payment ben made yet?

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We simply have not been able to come to an agreeable compromise.

This isn't a negotiation. There's no compromise. You owe me money. Any costs associated with delivery are your responsibility, not mine. I offered a way to settle the bet honorably, with no extra costs to deliver, but you declined.

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Why can't you fucking get it through your head that I AM NOT DONATING MONEY TO THE FUCKING ACLU, OK?!

Fine. Then send payment to me. You have my PayPal address.

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And I said I was willing to donate the dollar to the USPA.

What world do you live in that the loser gets to decide to which organization the winnings are paid. If you want to donate to the USPA, do it with your own money, not mine.

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You are standing here in front of fellow skydivers declining that offer, which I think is pretty disgusting.

No more disgusting than your refusal to donate my money to the ACLU, as I requested.

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Why you are acting so small and unwilling to greet that compromise half-way I cannot understand.

Who's acting small again? Would you like a reference of a forum member to which I recently happily paid a lost wager? I gamble. I win more than I lose, but I do lose some. When I lose, I pay. I don't make excuses, and I don't whine about it.

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I am already extending to you the courtesy of going beyond what I agreed to in the wager:
- whose terms you did not meet to my satisfaction

I met the written terms stated in the wager.

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- in which I agreed to be held liable for ONE DOLLAR, not "one dollar plus delivery fees made payable to PayPal."

You bet a dollar. That means $1 plus the vig. Call a bookie and see if it only costs $100 for a $100 even odds wager. Most will charge you $110.

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Time to grow up.

I'm not the one failing to meet my responsibilities or to keep my word.

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It would be comical to watch someone sell out their personal credibility over such a small amount if it wasn't so pathetically sad.

If you think this is a legitimate test of "someone's personal credibility," then that's what's sad.

Sadder still is that you don't.

[Skyrad 0]

It is truely shameful not to honour a bet. Pay the man.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

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The fact that you look down your nose at plebs therefore says allot more about your feelings of class inferiority than it does anything about me in anyway shape or form dear boy.

How do you figure - YOU are the one that used the term, not him.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

But it was he that took it to be derogatory to be a Plebian.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[diverborg 0]

Well, I have a few questions regarding some stuff said on here. In response to the punishment being determined based on the quality of the evidence I ask this.

Maybe this varies state to state (i'm no law expert), but isn't this typically how our courts system actually works with the death penalty? I mean I thought the jurors had to come to a unanimous decision whether the defendant deserves the death penalty. While I don't like the phrase "quality of the evidence" I suppose that could be one factor. I think their decisions are more based on the type of crime committed and whether they feel deep down that this person is undeniably guilty. The video presented in this case is evidence. Now it is probably good quality evidence, but it also shows the horror of what this person actually did. If they see that this is undeniably the guy and the defense had their chance to say why it might not be, as well as they see the terrible things he's done and they choose to go with the death penalty, then where does the "quality of evidence" statement actually contradict the way our legal system works.

Rather than "quality of evidence" I like that the punishment is more determined on the "type of evidence". I think that is a more accurate statement to what's being argued here.

Not to mention, didn't anybody catch the part where the creep PLEADED GUILTY. How does the "possibly innocent" argument even apply here?

[diverborg 0]

With no disrespect towards you Amazon. I would like to ask a few questions?

Lets say someone broke into your house with a gun ready to kill you. I'm guessing you don't like guns so lets say you had a knife nearby. You are very talented martial artist that is fast enough to kill this person with a knife before they can shoot you. Would you kill the person knowing that if you didn't they would kill you.

I understand this is an entirely different scenario, but I'm going on the statement that many have made on here which is "nobody deserves to die". I know that not everything in life is black and white, but to say there are no black and whites is absurd. In fact your black and white would be that the death penalty is never ok. My black and white is that yes, certain circumstances call for it. There are certain crimes heinous enough to deserve the death penalty. Its not always about vengeance. I personally think forgiveness is divine and would try with every ounce of my being to forgive someone who killed a loved one of mine. Does that mean they still shouldn't pay the consequences of their actions?, absolutely not. Certain people have lost their right to live, and it is more beneficial to society to do away with them altogether. This is one of those cases. Whether it be a deterrant for others, vengeance for the family, justice, or insurance that he never does it to anybody again.

I think these people are a burden to the system and should not be supported by tax dollars in prison, unfortunately our justice system is flawed enough that is is more expensive to actually put the guy down, than to keep him alive.

[diverborg 0]

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All death penalty supporters should be put into a death pool so they can be executioners just like jury duty. The consequences of that can be on THEIR minds for the rest of THEIR lives. You should have to declare your desire to kill your fellow Americans.

Just wanted to clarify that I don't think the majority of death-penalty proponents would consider the defendant in this case one of our "fellow Americans."

[kallend 2,151]

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With no disrespect towards you Amazon. I would like to ask a few questions?

Lets say someone broke into your house with a gun ready to kill you. I'm guessing you don't like guns so lets say you had a knife nearby. You are very talented martial artist that is fast enough to kill this person with a knife before they can shoot you. Would you kill the person knowing that if you didn't they would kill you.

.

Why should someone opposed to state sponsored killing in the name of "the people" necessarily dislike guns? I don't follow your logic.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diverborg 0]

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Why should someone opposed to state sponsored killing in the name of "the people" necessarily dislike guns? I don't follow your logic.

Well, I could have probably left that part out.

Well, lets just say she has a gun then, given the same scenario.

[Amazon 7]

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Lets say someone broke into your house with a gun ready to kill you. I'm guessing you don't like guns so lets say you had a knife nearby. You are very talented martial artist that is fast enough to kill this person with a knife before they can shoot you. Would you kill the person knowing that if you didn't they would kill you.

You would be wrong... I would have NO Problem with ventilating them with my .44 Mag... I also have a CCW.

I made that decision a long time ago.. My life or theirs.... I think my life is worth more to me and I REFUSE to ever be a victim in my life. I will NOT be aiming to maim.. I will aiming for the kill.....period.


Dealing with the aftermath would be difficult.. but I am prepared for the consequences.

There is a VAST difference in defending my life under ANY circumstance than allowing my government to murder indiscriminately in my name... based on a system that all to often is not only fallible.. but is corrupt and morally bankrupt.

If more victims were armed under our current messed up system.. there would be far fewer victims.

I fully believe that an armed society is a more polite society.

[normiss 898]

Well said.

[jcd11235 0]

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With no disrespect towards you Amazon. I would like to ask a few questions?
… I'm guessing you don't like guns …

You don't come 'round these parts often, do you?

Having said that, an execution is premeditated, and should be compared to other premeditated killings if you are going to make comparisons.

I don't think you'll find too many folks are against killing in self defense, if the person honestly perceives their life to be in danger. Even the law usually treats second degree murder different from premeditated murder (as it should), since the former occurs in the heat of the moment.

* * * * *

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is that the defendant will likely die more quickly with a life sentence than with the death penalty. Rumor has it, child molesters do not last very long in prison.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[diverborg 0]

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You would be wrong... I would have NO Problem with ventilating them with my .44 Mag... I also have a CCW.

I made that decision a long time ago.. My life or theirs.... I think my life is worth more to me and I REFUSE to ever be a victim in my life. I will NOT be aiming to maim.. I will aiming for the kill.....period.


Dealing with the aftermath would be difficult.. but I am prepared for the consequences.

There is a VAST difference in defending my life under ANY circumstance than allowing my government to murder indiscriminately in my name... based on a system that all to often is not only fallible.. but is corrupt and morally bankrupt.

If more victims were armed under our current messed up system.. there would be far fewer victims.

I fully believe that an armed society is a more polite society.

Cool! I'll admit I had made some poor assumptions about you.

I know they are completely different scenarios and my only point in the matter was that sometimes we have to make decisions on when its ok to kill. We disagree on the whens, but not on the fact that sometimes its ok. I have a hard time understanding why it is so much more of a stretch to say someone is deserving of death after they commit the crime then before. The perp knows ahead of time that if they committ a heinous murder that their life will likely be taken for it if they are caught. I view it more as a broken rule = consequence, rather than bloodlust and vengeance. I believe it is a fitting punishment for the crime.

I'm sure the children this guy has killed wished they had a .44 mag handy.

[diverborg 0]

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You don't come 'round these parts often, do you?

Well it has been a very long time, I don't know why I got the urge today to post again. I mainly opened this forum to see if there were any opinions on the Russia/Georgia conflict. I know we have some members on here from that area and I was curious what they had to say.

I don't know how, but I then got all tangled up in this thread.

[kallend 2,151]

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You don't come 'round these parts often, do you?

Well it has been a very long time, I don't know why I got the urge today to post again. I mainly opened this forum to see if there were any opinions on the Russia/Georgia conflict. I know we have some members on here from that area and I was curious what they had to say.

I don't know how, but I then got all tangled up in this thread.

SC is an acquired taste. Like haggis.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is that the defendant will likely die more quickly with a life sentence than with the death penalty. Rumor has it, child molesters do not last very long in prison.

Since most executed prisoners make it 10-20 years before death, that doesn't seem to be doing the job.

A potential difference, I imagine, is that DP convicts are isolated from the rest of the prisoners.

[birdlike 0]

We're done, here.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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It is truely shameful not to honour a bet. Pay the man.

Who the fuck asked you?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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With no disrespect towards you Amazon. I would like to ask a few questions?
… I'm guessing you don't like guns …

You don't come 'round these parts often, do you?

Having said that, an execution is premeditated, and should be compared to other premeditated killings if you are going to make comparisons.

Fine, let's.

Two sides are engaged in a war that side A started with an unprovoked attack (so side B is held harmless for starting the war).

A platoon of soldiers from side B is on patrol and discovers a platoon of side A soldiers encamped in the woods. They are not detected by side B and could confidently pass on by back to their base. But they are also under orders to take out any side A'ers they feel they can, if encountered. They PREMEDITATE a plan to wait until nightfall, and then descend upon and slaughter the side A'ers. They do so. They return and are recommended for medals.

Premeditated killing. Equivalent to murder?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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But it was he that took it to be derogatory to be a Plebian.

Once again, YOU were the one who used the term pejoratively, when you took umbrage that mere "plebs" would presume to put a number after their name. Clearly, you intended to convey that doing so was supposed to be the purview of the UPPER ("non-pleb" or "patrician") classes.

I really don't know who you think you are fooling.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Not to mention, didn't anybody catch the part where the creep PLEADED GUILTY. How does the "possibly innocent" argument even apply here?

It doesn't. It's just what they fall back on when they would look even stupider trying to make the "it makes us as bad as him" argument.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You would be wrong... I would have NO Problem with ventilating them with my .44 Mag... I also have a CCW.

I made that decision a long time ago.. My life or theirs.... I think my life is worth more to me and I REFUSE to ever be a victim in my life. I will NOT be aiming to maim.. I will aiming for the kill.....period.


Dealing with the aftermath would be difficult.. but I am prepared for the consequences.

If more victims were armed under our current messed up system.. there would be far fewer victims.

I fully believe that an armed society is a more polite society.

We might have gotten along a lot better from the start if I had simply known this about you then.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[mnealtx 0]

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If more victims were armed under our current messed up system.. there would be far fewer victims.

I fully believe that an armed society is a more polite society.

+ + +

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706