Butters 0 #101 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteNot really, I take my reserve, nobody takes it for me. Right, but the reason why you take it is to minimize the probability of landing outside the aircraft without a properly functioning canopy over your head. How is that different than, children that are allergic to peanut products should carry an EpiPen to minimize the probability of having a fatal allergic reaction?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #102 August 21, 2008 QuoteWhat makes banning peanut products a reasonable precaution? Because their existence in the school is both high risk and not integral (or arguably even useful) to the learning process. Nor does banning them violate anyones rights.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #103 August 21, 2008 QuoteHow is that different than, children that are allergic to peanut products should carry an EpiPen to minimize the probability of having a fatal allergic reaction? Have you ever heard the expression An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #104 August 21, 2008 Quote Have you ever heard the expression An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Look. If it means I have to wait for my peanut, you are just going to have to cure that mild case of death you're suffering from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #105 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteWhat makes banning peanut products a reasonable precaution? Because their existence in the school is both high risk and not integral (or arguably even useful) to the learning process. Nor does banning them violate anyones rights. A proper diet has been shown to be an integral part of the learning process. Peanut products are a cheap source of protein which is part of a proper diet."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #106 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow is that different than, children that are allergic to peanut products should carry an EpiPen to minimize the probability of having a fatal allergic reaction? Have you ever heard the expression An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Yes, and guess what ... it's an expression, not a valid argument."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #107 August 21, 2008 Quote Quote Have you ever heard the expression An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Look. If it means I have to wait for my peanut, you are just going to have to cure that mild case of death you're suffering from. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #108 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteBecause their existence in the school is both high risk and not integral (or arguably even useful) to the learning process. Nor does banning them violate anyones rights. A proper diet has been shown to be an integral part of the learning process. Peanut products are a cheap source of protein which is part of a proper diet. Roadkill is also a cheap source of protein. Do you consider roadkill an integral part of the learning process?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #109 August 21, 2008 well, I do, I can tell you that. Of course, I live not too far from the West Virginia border, where they recently passed a law making it legal to eat roadkill. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #110 August 21, 2008 Quotewell, I do, I can tell you that. Speedracers answer to spiralling school lunch costs: "Shuddup and eat your roadkill, it's edjumactional." Joke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #111 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteBecause their existence in the school is both high risk and not integral (or arguably even useful) to the learning process. Nor does banning them violate anyones rights. A proper diet has been shown to be an integral part of the learning process. Peanut products are a cheap source of protein which is part of a proper diet. Roadkill is also a cheap source of protein. Do you consider roadkill an integral part of the learning process? No. However, I would consider roadkill to be a cheap source of protein which is part of a proper diet which has been shown to be an integral part of the learning process."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #112 August 21, 2008 QuoteCould UNICEF be forced to stop the Plumpy'nut program because they're poisoning children in other countries? Most likely there would be little to no need. Prevalence of peanut allergies is extremely rare outside of developed nations. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #113 August 21, 2008 Quote Quote I'm wondering if I call our county and tell them I am allergic to assholes if I can get rid of our county commissioners. If you're allergic to assholes, you shouldn't be in Speakers Corner. I didn't post this here.And after reading the rest of the thread all I can say is thanks for the entertainment Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #114 August 22, 2008 Quote Quote Could UNICEF be forced to stop the Plumpy'nut program because they're poisoning children in other countries? Most likely there would be little to no need. Prevalence of peanut allergies is extremely rare outside of developed nations. VR/Marg Very interesting. So I am forced to ask, what are we in developing nations doing to make kids allergic to peanuts and how can we not spread this to other people? Or, we could find a way make everyone that we go to war with get peanut allergies and drop a Jiff bomb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #115 August 22, 2008 Anyone in here getting hungry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #116 August 22, 2008 Homer: Awww, $20!? I wanted a peanut. Brain: $20 can buy many peanuts. Homer: Explain how! Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services. Homer: Woohoo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #117 August 22, 2008 I was allergic to homework, but do you think anyone cared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #118 August 23, 2008 Quote One of the pro baseball stadiums just agreed to make an area "Peanut free" for a few days to allow a child with peanut allergies to attend a game. His level of allergy is one such that even inhaling dust from opening a shell too close to him could have triggered anaphylactic shock that would have required immediate medical attention. Have a child with that level of peanut allergy in a public school setting and there is a good chance of having at least some level of incident, the last thing the school wants is for a kid to die in the middle of the lunchroom due to something they can avoid. How do you address the fact that for ALL THESE YEARS, there have been peanuts brought to school, but we haven't been reading about these deaths? Did humanity just evolve an allergy to peanuts? Hardly. I think that if there was reason to be nervous about peanuts being in schools, we'd have seen the mandate to do away with peanuts in our society across the board. There hasn't been a big torrent of peanut-related deaths, so that proves this is an overreaction, in my book. If I had a kid in a school and they pulled this mamby pamby bullshit, I'd send my kid to school with peanuts every fuckin' day. I am SiCK of the fucking pussies running things, trying to make every fucking person afraid of his own shadow. Quote Most daycare centers in the US are peanut free centers already. Any violation of serving a child food that he/she is allergic to is usually instant termination. I am fine with the institutions not serving peanuts. No big deal. But asking parents to modify their kids' diets for the one in a thousand or whatever? No. Quote Food allergies are on the rise, its something to be very aware of. What's causing tha-- Oh, I forgot: Global Warming. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #119 August 23, 2008 Quote Homer: Awww, $20!? I wanted a peanut. Brain: $20 can buy many peanuts. Homer: Explain how! Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services. Homer: Woohoo! Or, even better... a Squishy that's made entirely out of SYRUP! Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #120 August 23, 2008 Quote Quote How is that different than, children that are allergic to peanut products should carry an EpiPen to minimize the probability of having a fatal allergic reaction? Have you ever heard the expression An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? It'd be a lot easier and more reliable for the susceptible kid to carry the cure to a peanut problem than to hope the world clears a peanut-free path around the kid. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #121 August 23, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Could UNICEF be forced to stop the Plumpy'nut program because they're poisoning children in other countries? Most likely there would be little to no need. Prevalence of peanut allergies is extremely rare outside of developed nations. Very interesting. So I am forced to ask, what are we in developing nations doing to make kids allergic to peanuts and how can we not spread this to other people? The specific causal mechanism has not been determined. The most predominant one is the “hygiene hypothesis.” Even tho’ it’s called a “hypothesis” that doesn’t mean it’s just a notional or fanciful idea. The hygiene hypothesis is supported *strongly* by epidemiological evidence and by experimental studies. (Strongly supported and with more evidence than most of the issues accepted as fact in typical discussions.) Marg's distilled version: Let kids get dirty and stop using anti-bacterial soap. It's also indication, im-ever-ho, of the need and importance of systems biology, a (relatively) new field of biology exploring complex interactions of biological systems that heavily leverages discoveries and tools of computer science, mathematics, chemistry, & phsyics. Some references: Secondary popular science account: Science News’ “Modern Hygiene's Dirty Tricks: The clean life may throw off a delicate balance in the immune system New England Journal of Medicine “Eat Dirt — The Hygiene Hypothesis and Allergic Diseases” Chemical Immunology and Allergy “The immunological basis of the hygiene hypothesis” The dramatic increase of allergic disorders in the last decades made their study an imperious demand. The increasing incidence of the development of allergic disorders seems to be associated with the modern westernized lifestyle, but causal reasons and the underlying mechanisms are far from being completely understood. Evidences suggest that priming of the immune responses against allergens happens already in utero. In addition, early life events are essential in shaping the immune answer towards the Th1- or Th2-profile, associated with a nonallergic or allergic phenotype, respectively. The hygiene hypothesis suggests that an early life environment rich in normal microbial flora primes the immune system in the Th1 direction towards clinical balance while a 'sterile' environment rather promotes the development of pathological immune phenotypes. In this review we collect epidemiological evidence for this concept. The data suggest an association between environment, lifestyle and the development of allergic diseases. This is the basis for the development of new hypotheses regarding the underlying pathomechanisms. The current view of cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying these phenomena includes fine-balancing between innate immune mechanisms and Th1, Th2 and regulatory T cells. These novel immunoregulatory events may explain the hygiene hypothesis by an interaction of environmental factors with innate immune mechanisms and various subtypes of T-cell responses. Nature Reviews Immunology “ The germless theory of allergic disease: revisiting the hygiene hypothesis” Rising rates of allergic disease accompany the healthier benefits of a contemporary westernized lifestyle, such as low infant mortality. It is likely that these twinned phenomena are causally related. The hygiene hypothesis states that allergy and increased longevity are both consequences of reducing infectious stressors during early childhood. Mechanistic explanations for the hygiene hypothesis have typically invoked the T-helper-type 1/2 (TH1/TH2) model. Here, we discuss why we favour a broader 'counter-regulatory' model — one that might also explain the increasing incidence of autoimmune disease in westernized countries. Review from Science “Allergy, Parasites, and the Hygiene Hypothesis” Abstract:The increase of allergic diseases in the industrialized world has often been explained by a decline in infections during childhood. The immunological explanation has been put into the context of the functional T cell subsets known as T helper 1 (TH1) and T helper 2 (TH2) that display polarized cytokine profiles. It has been argued that bacterial and viral infections during early life direct the maturing immune system toward TH1, which counterbalance proallergic responses of TH2 cells. Thus, a reduction in the overall microbial burden will result in weak TH1 imprinting and unrestrained TH2 responses that allow an increase in allergy. This notion is contradicted by observations that the prevalence of TH1-autoimmune diseases is also increasing and that TH2-skewed parasitic worm (helminth) infections are not associated with allergy. More recently, elevations of anti-inflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin-10, that occur during long-term helminth infections have been shown to be inversely correlated with allergy. The induction of a robust anti-inflammatory regulatory network by persistent immune challenge offers a unifying explanation for the observed inverse association of many infections with allergic disorders. Quote Or, we could find a way make everyone that we go to war with get peanut allergies and drop a Jiff bomb Suspect that may have been in jest and, as far as I am aware, no one has proposed exploiting peanut allergens for offensive purposes. Targeting specific traits or susceptibilities has been proposed, however, for military purposes. Typically the underlying science is too problematic to make such efforts operationally useful. And, unfortunutely , in this case, the most effected targets would likely be us. [not good] VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #122 August 23, 2008 Quote How do you address the fact that for ALL THESE YEARS, there have been peanuts brought to school, but we haven't been reading about these deaths? Depends on what one is reading, perhaps? The initial incidence of rises in food allergies in the US and Europe were reported in the early 1970s. The hygiene hypothesis is almost 20 years old. Quote Did humanity just evolve an allergy to peanuts? To some extent, yes Although it’s not evolution, increased incidence of nut allergies is acquired immunogenic reactivities in most, and Lysenkoism is still not correct (w/r/t traits acquired during life being passed onto future generations.) And, not humanity. Just increased incidence in developed nations. Incidence of allergic diseases is almost close to nonexistent in rural areas of Africa, South America, and Asia. Quote Quote Food allergies are on the rise, its something to be very aware of. What's causing tha-- Oh, I forgot: Global Warming. That may be a hypothesis, but it’s not one of which I am aware. Do you have a link? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #123 August 23, 2008 QuoteDid humanity just evolve an allergy to peanuts? Quite possibly, yes. See nerdgirl's post earlier in the thread. When are you going to pay off that bet you lost?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #124 August 23, 2008 Quote Quote One of the pro baseball stadiums just agreed to make an area "Peanut free" for a few days to allow a child with peanut allergies to attend a game. His level of allergy is one such that even inhaling dust from opening a shell too close to him could have triggered anaphylactic shock that would have required immediate medical attention. Have a child with that level of peanut allergy in a public school setting and there is a good chance of having at least some level of incident, the last thing the school wants is for a kid to die in the middle of the lunchroom due to something they can avoid. How do you address the fact that for ALL THESE YEARS, there have been peanuts brought to school, but we haven't been reading about these deaths? Did humanity just evolve an allergy to peanuts? Hardly. I think that if there was reason to be nervous about peanuts being in schools, we'd have seen the mandate to do away with peanuts in our society across the board. There hasn't been a big torrent of peanut-related deaths, so that proves this is an overreaction, in my book. If I had a kid in a school and they pulled this mamby pamby bullshit, I'd send my kid to school with peanuts every fuckin' day. I am SiCK of the fucking pussies running things, trying to make every fucking person afraid of his own shadow. Quote Most daycare centers in the US are peanut free centers already. Any violation of serving a child food that he/she is allergic to is usually instant termination. I am fine with the institutions not serving peanuts. No big deal. But asking parents to modify their kids' diets for the one in a thousand or whatever? No. Quote Food allergies are on the rise, its something to be very aware of. What's causing tha-- Oh, I forgot: Global Warming. What a wonderful impersonation of a thoroughly nasty, uncaring, angry idiot. Good job, Jeffrey.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
