at first I thought this was discrimation but ...

[Steel 0]

But I am not sure what I would classify it as.

So, I hate mowing the lawn and pay this Mexican guy to mow it. Yesterday, I noticed that he bought a new truck (New to him, its actually and 04 F-150). I was talking with him (in Spanish ofcourse) telling him how nice I thought the new truck was, and asked him how much he paid for it. He gave me an odd answer. He said 14K, 20k after interest is included. I was like what was your interest rate, he said 19.9%. He says yeah I got it at, and name a local Ford dealer.

This leaves me thinking for a bit. I recall about 6 years ago, when I got laid off that I worked at a car dealership for a week. I remember a coe-worker getting annoyed because a sale of his was lost. He blamed the loan officer. He said that when the customer is Mexican the loan officer sends the loan rate through the roof. I know that many will be quick to question the customer's credit rating but at the time when I was working there atleast, we (the sales people) were the ones to initially run the credit reports, so we saw the credit scores first. For that reason this other sales person was making his observation after having seen the credit scores of his individual clients.

Taking all this into account, I quesion how much do I know about this guy who cuts my lawn. I know that if I call him he comes. When his schedule was not working for me because it conflicted with my skydiving, he started coming at 8 am Sunday mornings never late. For that reason, I find it hard to believe that this guys credit score is so low that it warrants a 19.9% interest rate.

So why is he getting stuck with it. Well, my last name is Rodriguez and although I am actually Cuban of Spanish descent the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference. None-the-less, wether its a car loan or a mortgage, I don't know anybody who gets better rates than I do. You can say its because, I don't have have an accent when I speak, but my parents do and they always get good rates as well.

I guess looking at the whole issue, I think it has more to the loan officer trying to get the most money that he can out of purchaser, and not necessarily disliking any certian group. But the reality is that different groups are more prone to not understanding the system.

Anyway, I did my part by recomending that he go to his bank and see what interest rate they could offer and told him if he needed any further assistance to call me.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Gawain 0]

The credit reporting system is convoluted, plain and simple. That was a good idea to recommend him to look at other options, if they're available.

The other item that will jack up rates is the amount to be financed. That must have been a cream-puff of an F-150 too, the most expensive rating on edmunds.com I could find was $13K + change (not knowing a location).

If he wasn't putting any money down, or placing any negative equity in a trade it, that will jack the loan rate too.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Steel 0]

Quote

The credit reporting system is convoluted, plain and simple. That was a good idea to recommend him to look at other options, if they're available.

The other item that will jack up rates is the amount to be financed. That must have been a cream-puff of an F-150 too, the most expensive rating on edmunds.com I could find was $13K + change (not knowing a location).

If he wasn't putting any money down, or placing any negative equity in a trade it, that will jack the loan rate too.

It definately looked nice from the outside. I didn't take it for ride to know how it drove. He did mention that he put down 1k on it. Its in the Dallas area.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[AWL71 0]

Just another example of a car dealer taking advantage of someone one. That will get away with highway robbery if a customer lets them.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Taking all this into account, I quesion how much do I know about this guy who cuts my lawn. I know that if I call him he comes. When his schedule was not working for me because it conflicted with my skydiving, he started coming at 8 am Sunday mornings never late. For that reason, I find it hard to believe that this guys credit score is so low that it warrants a 19.9% interest rate.

Credit rating isn't helped or hurt by how prompt you show up at work. Lots of reliable people have no credit rating, as they don't use credit. You have to take on debt and pay it back to be allowed to take on debt. If you prefer to deal in cash instead, you're not part of the system. Or even if you are a good worker/business owner, if cash flow isn't adequete and you stretch to meet debts, those late payments ding the rating substantially.

That all aside, the used car dealership makes much more money on the financing than they do on the car. And the rate offered is whatever they think they can get out of you. I think one shouldn't go to a new or used car dealer without a finance option arranged. Then if the dealership wants the action, they can compete. Sadly, they often make loans that don't allow for early payment, so rolling over the loan to a credit union isn't always an option.

And last, yes, there is a long history of redlining and dicriminatory rate practices in the financial world.

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

Credit rating isn't helped or hurt by how prompt you show up at work. Lots of reliable people have no credit rating, as they don't use credit.
----------------------------------------------
People could be reliable with work and unreliable with how they pay their bills. I understand this. However, I have found in my experience that reliable people tend to be reliable in all way and unreliable people turn out to be unreliable in most ways as well.
===========================

You have to take on debt and pay it back to be allowed to take on debt. If you prefer to deal in cash instead, you're not part of the system.

-------------------------------------
Yes this makes sense if we are talking about somebody who has an 850 verses a 700. But I don't believe that somebody without any previous missed payments is put starting with a credit score in the 500's. I also believe that an interest rate that high is the only rate that somebody whose credit rating is in the 500's can get.

==============================


Or even if you are a good worker/business owner, if cash flow isn't adequete and you stretch to meet debts, those late payments ding the rating substantially.
---------------------------------------------
A high debt to income ratio will lower somebody's credit score. Belive me I am well aware of this from personal experience. However, you only loose 30-50 points for a high debt to income ratio, if you are not missing or late on any of your payments. So this could not be a reason to get somebody who is in the mid 600's (beginnner level) down to the 500's (jackass level, that is not to be trusted)
==========================


That all aside, the used car dealership makes much more money on the financing than they do on the car. And the rate offered is whatever they think they can get out of you.
-----------------------------------------
Agreed!

===========================


I think one shouldn't go to a new or used car dealer without a finance option arranged. Then if the dealership wants the action, they can compete.
----------------------------

Sounds like a viable option. You could just as well just know beforehand what kind of rate you are good for and walk out if they don't give it to you. If you know what you are good for it shouldn't be to hard to make it clear to the loan officer. When I bought my truck (which was used) I told the sales person, "yeah its a really nice truck but if you loan officer tries to fuck me on the rate you are going to loose the sale. When I walked to talk to loan officer, I said if you don't plan on offering me a rate under 5% then lets not waste my or your time and just say good bye. With five minutes he said ok I can offer you 4.7 %

===============================



Sadly, they often make loans that don't allow for early payment, so rolling over the loan to a credit union isn't always an option.
-------------------------------------
I know this used to happen a lot but I belive that its happening less and less as time goes on. There may be laws against a pre-payment penalty. I am not sure about this.

==============================

And last, yes, there is a long history of redlining and dicriminatory rate practices in the financial world.

So are you saying that they are picking on a group because they want to cause intentional harm to them or because they could get away with doing so out of general ignorance?

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[FreeflyChile 0]

I think that this is the case because your lawn guy is likely an illegal immigrant.

I knew someone that was in this country illegally (no longer so) that got a car in an area of the country that had a large illegal immigrant population. When buying the car from the dealer they got a ridiculous (like 20%) interest...and the reason that it was likely this high (according to this person) is because their options in terms of financing are limited due to their status.

In a lot of cases, these people are unable to go through the normal channels to get financing but are hardworking people that make decent money, so they're able to pay and are willing to pay more.

On an quasi-related note, a guy i know that works in real estate was telling me that if he was to buy investment property to rent he'd do so in an up-n-coming area where there are a lot of illegal hispanic people living. The reason is that many of these people make a decent living on what they make but can't own their homes, so they are forced to rent. These people are proud of what they are able to accomplish and take absolutely immaculate care of their homes.

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

I think that this is the case because your lawn guy is likely an illegal immigrant.

I knew someone that was in this country illegally (no longer so) that got a car in an area of the country that had a large illegal immigrant population. When buying the car from the dealer they got a ridiculous (like 20%) interest...and the reason that it was likely this high (according to this person) is because their options in terms of financing are limited due to their status.

In a lot of cases, these people are unable to go through the normal channels to get financing but are hardworking people that make decent money, so they're able to pay and are willing to pay more.

On an quasi-related note, a guy i know that works in real estate was telling me that if he was to buy investment property to rent he'd do so in an up-n-coming area where there are a lot of illegal hispanic people living. The reason is that many of these people make a decent living on what they make but can't own their homes, so they are forced to rent. These people are proud of what they are able to accomplish and take absolutely immaculate care of their homes.

BINGO we have a winner! You are correct on your thoughts!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Yes this makes sense if we are talking about somebody who has an 850 verses a 700. But I don't believe that somebody without any previous missed payments is put starting with a credit score in the 500's. I also believe that an interest rate that high is the only rate that somebody whose credit rating is in the 500's can get.

No missed payments only means something if you had payments to make. Immigrants, and young people have no history before they get their first car. Many other cultures avoid credit cards - Asians and Muslums come to mind - some of the latter don't believe in loans at all, which requires a very indirect method for home loans.

Quote

So are you saying that they are picking on a group because they want to cause intentional harm to them or because they could get away with doing so out of general ignorance?

I think that profit motive trumps everything else, esp when we're talking about car sales. The poor and the minority populations tend to be less informed on financial matters, so they're easier to take for a ride. But it's not exclusive.

I bought my first car at 23 - I thought it would be a Dodge Dakota 2wd - a blend of cheap, utility, power. But in their wisdom, they make very few models with a stick shift, so on my way out from the only one in the greater Bay Area (Monterey, 120 miles out), I saw a 1 year old toyota 4x4, similar to the one my mom had just purchased.

Of course the salesman says they can work a reasonable deal, anything to get the test ride in. But come time to talk $$, they want 20k for a used truck (6000 miles) that my mom had just gotten new for $18.3. They tried to suggest I was insulting them and ripping them off. They saw a stupid young (white) man, who could be taken, who would never walk out the door empty handed.

So two days later, I walk into the Berkeley Toyota, ask if they can get that truck to me for the same standard fleet pricing as my mom got, and 3 days later I drove off with it. I spent less than 10 minutes to make it happen.

Actually, even at the Dodge dealer, when the guy saw I had printouts from Edmunds.com on pricing, we skipped past most of the bullshit. Unfortunately, that 5 speed model was barebones, and adding AC and a few other things at the lot pushed the price too high.

[D22369 0]

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference***


This statement tells me that YOU have a much bigger problem with your nationality than most "anglo's"

I dont care where you or your family members come from, dont expect special favors because your a "special" minority

deal with reality, get a life, see ya in the funny papers....


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

That must have been a cream-puff of an F-150 too, the most expensive rating on edmunds.com I could find was $13K + change (not knowing a location).
[\reply]

I paid $21 for my 2004 F-150 a year ago when gas prices were half what they are now. I guess I should've waited.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

• Quote

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

So, I hate mowing the lawn and pay this Mexican guy to mow it. Yesterday, I noticed that he bought a new truck (New to him, its actually and 04 F-150). I was talking with him (in Spanish ofcourse) telling him how nice I thought the new truck was, and asked him how much he paid for it. He gave me an odd answer. He said 14K, 20k after interest is included. I was like what was your interest rate, he said 19.9%. He says yeah I got it at, and name a local Ford dealer.

I got 16.99% interest rate last year when I bought my Ford Expedition with 20% down. Had a good credit score (was qualified for $0 down 0% financing), but wasn't even interested in any financing as the plan was to buy this car without any financing. Still got this loan, and we agreed that I will keep this loan for three months, and then pay it off, and that's what I did. You know why? Because I've got a really good price for this car, and the dealership makes some money and gets "points" from Ford Credit when such a loan is signed. It might not be exactly the case with your guy, but he might get something else out of it (for example, he might have got it with zero down and allowed to keep the $2000 cash rebate). Also the financing is getting tough now; recently I helped my friend to buy a car, and it was very hard to find anything less than 17.99% for the people with no credit, even though a couple of years ago 11.99 in the same situation was a highway robbery. Things change.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[misaltas 0]

I think that's pretty cool you took the time and effort to step in, in a situation that so many in our modern US culture nowadays would simply not have the time for. I think you're doing the right thing. Good on you. I would've and have done the same finding the opportunity to help. Glad to know someone else would too.

There certainly seems to be something fishy going on, and this guy's situation should be pretty easy to fix provided his loan doesn't include some type of fees or penalty for paying off early (with that refinanced loan).

>Well, my last name is Rodriguez and although I am
>actually Cuban of Spanish descent the typical
>Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference.

Ouch. If I knew you, that might have stung.

I'll admit, put to the test, this white guy would have trouble discerning someone from Cuba from someone from Mexico, from someone from Argentina, from a latino who lives in North Carolina. Interesting to know that folks like you think that makes me stupid.

(ed. sp. term.)

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[jimmytavino 16]

If MY job was "mowing Lawns" AND i had a thousand dollars....

I'd buy a used pickup for 1,000 dollars....

then each month, i'd stash the 4 or 500 bucks that your Guy is spending on his truck, Into a savings account....

IF the "one grand P/U" hangs in there and lasts for a while,,,, by the time it's really "junk",,,, i'd have a few thousand in the bank....( providing the truck lasts 6 or 8 months...)

Then.. I'd buy a different OLD truck, for 50 % of what i had saved,,, and use the rest for lift tickets
hahaha...
but to enter into a Loan for 14 thousand, which will cost me over 20 thousand,,,
seems like a BAD idea....
UNLESS he happens to LIVE in the truck....then it's a bargain...

good for you to take an interest in the man's issues...that's very decent of you

jimmy

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference***


This statement tells me that YOU have a much bigger problem with your nationality than most "anglo's"

I dont care where you or your family members come from, dont expect special favors because your a "special" minority

deal with reality, get a life, see ya in the funny papers....


Roy

Look at Steel's prior posts. I think they'll give you a good insight into his character (online at least).

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference***


This statement tells me that YOU have a much bigger problem with your nationality than most "anglo's"

I dont care where you or your family members come from, dont expect special favors because your a "special" minority

deal with reality, get a life, see ya in the funny papers....


Roy

Look at Steel's prior posts. I think they'll give you a good insight into his character (online at least).

Ian

I think he actually proved my point with the stupidity of his statement. But I didn't think he was worth responding to.

If you indeed payed attention to my previous posts, you would find that I actually hate being classified as a minority, period. The reality is that people in France, Italy, Portugal or Greece are not any more or less white than people in Spain. Calling us (the Spaniards or people who descend directly from Spain) minorities and separating us from the rest of the white population is done so out of stupidity.

This stupidity is indeed mostly exhibited by typical Anglo_Americans, as his statement calling me a minority, proves. I will admit however, that not everybody is that stupid. The CIA knows better as they clearly write on their website.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic.

Generally even the other census takers are not that clueless, that is why the always say, white non-hispanic. Because they know that a great number of those people they are branding as 'hispanic' are indeed white. But for their purposes, whatever that may be, they like to play along with the stupid population who think that the 'ez' at the end of our names suddenly adds pigment to our complection.

I can't say much about the rest of his post as it followed no logic whatsoever. Get a life? I think that funny since I am quite happy with where I am.

Deal with it? Deal with what, I am not the one getting screwed. As a matter of fact due his general ignorance calling me a minority, I actually do qualify for special rights. But the fact is that I am sure he needs those rights more than me so I won't be cashing in on them.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Ron 10]

I think he is talking about how you think it is ok to insult others based on race.

Quote

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference

You are doing the EXACT thing you claim others do.

It is interesting because you are so quiet in person. Bummer that thing with Storrie didn't work out.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[flyhi 24]

Quote

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid

Seven spelling errors
Improper use of "its" twice
Improper use of "and" instead of "an"
Repeated word
Improper attempt to make "guy" possessive
World-record 43-word sentence

Are you a typical Cuban of Spanish descent?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Steel 0]

Quote

I think he is talking about how you think it is ok to insult others based on race.

Quote

the typical Anglo-America is too stupid to tell the difference

You are doing the EXACT thing you claim others do.

It is interesting because you are so quiet in person. Bummer that thing with Storrie didn't work out.

I'll admit it was inappropiate of me to generalize and not specify that it was not all Anglo-Americans, but a lot of them.

I think a difference you will find online is that there are a lot less skydivers here than on the dropzone. Or maybe its just that skydive Dallas is a better place. Here I find that its mostly a game of gotcha. That would be cool if people would admit when they were wrong rather than just spin around the issue.

Also when I am on the dropzone, I am there to skydive not talk politics. But if people made the same generalizations about me there I probably would be firing back the same responses.

Wether on the dropzone or not, if I see some dipshit running around with a Che Guevara t-shirt, I will make my disgust for their glorification of a mass-murder clear.

On Saturday that was the first time we tried that in about the past 3.5 years. Last time we did it, it worked out better. The 20 pounds I have put on since have increased my foward speed, but I am sure we will figure it out.


Flyhi--

I have never been much for spelling. Most of the my mistakes are just typos, but many times I just don't know how to spell it and don't care to take the time to look it up.

To answer you question, I am a typical Cuban of Spanish descent. Of course that doesn't mean I fit every stereotype, (I can't dance for shit) but I think I fit most of them.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Pendejo 0]

Not withstanding the bs that is starting between a couple of the posters in this thread, I would like to point out a couple of things if I can about how things work in a finance office at a car dealership.

First, every lending institution that I have ever seen who signs up with a auto dealership for indirect lending puts a “rate cap” on the amount of spread the finance manager can make on a loan. They do this not because they are caring people who are looking out for the consumers best interest (no pun intended), but rather because they do not want the person to refinance at a lower rate elsewhere before they get to make any money on the consumer.

Second, most of the major lenders have an internal scoring system. That system takes into account the credit score of the person, their time on the job, time in their home, if they own or rent their home, if they are self employed, the amount they are borrowing vs the current wholesale value of the vehicle, debt to income ratio, and a lot of other little things.

I know that it is easy to point fingers at the finance manager and say he has ripped someone off, and, in some cases that is certainly the situation. But in some cases that is not true. If the person you are describing used an accountant who told them to only report income that they had to, like income that is paid with checks and what not to the business, then the persons debt to income ratio would be all out of wack. That can cause the lender to view the person as a higher risk and push up the rate.

In Goergerussia’s case, the finance person lied (sorta). FMC (Ford Motor Credit) like GMAC (General Motors Acceptance Corporation) have a policy where that the dealer does not get charged back after 90 days for any rate spread that is made on one of their loans. They still get charged back for the warranty and insurance the customer might by if they cancel it, but not the rate. Thats actually a really good example of the finance person being less than honest.

There are certainly people out there who will take advantage of their customers, that goes without saying. But in truth, it happens a lot less that most would believe.

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

[D22369 0]

I think he actually proved my point with the stupidity of his statement. But I didn't think he was worth responding to.
***

Ummmm, who are you? most of us dont hang on your everyword and keystroke, your an internet jedi who shoots his mouth off getting your jollies insulting others. go for it man, this is the internet, I dont give a shit what your opinion of me is, you aint nobody in my world. If I have clicked on one of your posts prior to this then it obviously bored me too much to actually recall it.

I have a thick skin - your insults will have to get better, perhaps if you practiced more...

for a person who is so happy with his life you are sure filled with anger.


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.