How ridiculous is the euphemism "African-American"

[Leapinglizardto 0]

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so by that logic, all US citizens born here are Native Americans.

Um WRONG!
So if I were born in Germany, as an Army-Brat, I'd be 'Native German'? WTF?

It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak

[mnealtx 0]

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so by that logic, all US citizens born here are Native Americans.

Um WRONG!
So if I were born in Germany, as an Army-Brat, I'd be 'Native German'? WTF?

No - but if your parents and grandparents and great grandparents had been born there, you would be - which is the point being made.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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suggesting that they are either surviving descendants of settlers from an early migration out of Africa, or that they are descendants of one of the founder populations of modern humans.

Uh .. if you want to follow this to an even further logical conclusion.. ALL homo-sapiens descended from ancestral populations "out of africa"


YO YO YO.. wat up homie..

[happythoughts 0]

A-A has no relation to fact, it is an artificial category.

White South Africans who have emigrated to the US are not categorized as A-A, they are Caucasian.

Plus, I had a conversation with the Kenyan parents of a child born in America. They said that they regard it is as a matter of culture.

Americans are more European in culture and so the Africans do not consider American black citizens to be "African-American".

[birdlike 0]

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At least "African-American" is more accurate than "black", just as "European-American" is more accurate than "white". Any anthropoligist will tell you there are no distinct & separate "races" or other ethnic groups that can be properly designated as "blacks" or "whites".

Whoa...wait...what??

How can you say that there can't be a recognized difference between those called "blacks" and those called "whites," but that you can differentiate based on where they're from??

Is there a physical difference between people because they're from Africa or Europe, but biologically you don't recognize that the skin of the African is FAR darker, and his features are VERY different from those of the European?? What about Asians?

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The whole black/white thing has been bullshit from the start. They never existed.

I disagree. I don't think we should care about it (that's why more non-racists are the whites who keep objecting to race-based preferences, rather than those who obviously are interested in perpetuating recognition of differences), but I definitely see that there are discernible differences.

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At least "African-American" is more accurate than "black"

How on earth is it any more "accurate"? It may be more specific, but at least you can call a person who is, well, black a "black person" and you'll be correct about it (all you have to do is observe that they are black); but if you call a black visitor from England an "African-American," you'll just be plain wrong...

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[birdlike 0]

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exactly.

black & white are ridiculous (and inaccurate labels) too.


edited to add: some people have said/implied that if Obama gets elected President it will mean some sort of great landmark or progress has been made in "race" relations.

I say that great progress will have been made when we no longer get excited about, or even give a shit one way or the other about someone's skin color.

Then you take issue with the people--any and every--who mention the context of Obama's race at all? Good! I agree with you. Anyone who wants people to not discriminate based on race should never be glad that someone of a given race accomplished something either.

We hear about "the first BLACK person to fly solo around the world," or "the first BLACK person to summit Mount Everest." That's ridiculous and patronizing and, well, racist. How can they get around the idea of perceiving that as, "Hey, black people, glad you could finally catch up to us and accomplish what we whites/asians/etc. have been doing all this time!"?

If I were a black guy and was the first to fly solo around the world, I'd be pissed off that people tried to give me an award for being the first BLACK guy to do it. How fuckin' patronizing can you get?!

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"African-american" is not a euphemism. A euphemism is the substitution of an offensive or unpleasant phrase with one that is inoffensive. So unless you think either "African" or "American" is unpleasant, it's not a euphemism.

Billvon, it appears that you have the directionality reversed. I think a euphemism is the term that is used because it is the one that is not offensive. So "African-American" is the term that people demand to replace the offensive "black". "African-American" is therefore the euphemism.

Here's Webster:
euphemism: the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant. also, the expression so substituted.

When I say that "African-American" is the euphemism, that means it's the agreeable term that replaces the "disagreeable" term "black."

I personally do not find the terms "black" or "white" offensive. They are merely convenient descriptors and have their place. I have never used "black" to be insulting or condescending. What I find offensive is forcing me to say "African-American" just to avoid being called racially insensitive.

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[birdlike 0]

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So it got me thinking, ok, America is the only country where we feel like we are "doing the right thing" by going along with the black preference (is it even universal among black people in the first place?) to use "African-American" instead of "black."

America isn't a country.
Yes the politically correct do say "African-Canadian," although most of the blacks I know better fir the label 'African.' In a few years they will become "African-Canadian." Their kids will be Canadian.

I'm not sure why you're splitting hairs about my calling "America" a "country." Was I supposed to say, "The 'United States of America' is the only 'nation' "? Seems rather tangential to the point.

But back on point, if Africans arrive in Canada and are "African-Canadians," and their kids are just "Canadians," why then aren't the kids of African immigrants to America just "Americans"?

That's the whole pith of the hyphenated-American debate, isn't it? My heritage, as a white person, is from Poland and Russia, but I don't call myself a Polish-American. I'm just American, same as a black person whose heritage is from Africa!


And what about white people, descendants of, what is it, Dutch(?) settlers in South Africa, who come to America? If I called them "white," should they frown and say, "Sorry, I'm African-American!?

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[birdlike 0]

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Hey call em whatever you want.... if you want to use the N #$%@ word go for it man.. It seems that is the basis of what so many "conservatives" are REALLLLLY saying after all...

Go for it.

I guess if you're determined to see the question as rooted in bigotry, you're gonna see the asker as a bigot who just wants to be able to say "nigger."

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Personally when I hear someone use terms like that the thought that jumps right to mind is some ignorant backwoods hick.. that does not give a shit about other people other than his own little insular group of tabaccy chewin.. missin teeth..banjo theme music.. militia belongin..sheet wearin redneck.

So, when someone uses a term you find bigoted, you immediately become bigoted, yourself. Interesting. I would never in a million years be able to reconcile your ability to hold yourself above others when you do the same things they do and yet condemn them for it. (And in this case, condemning people who don't even do the thing you find bigoted!)

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Are you asserting that Japan and China are Southeast Asia?
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Yes, if you don't belive that look on a Map of Asia.
Northeast Asia is all Russia.

Guys, are you enjoying your little irrelevant sub-thread?

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[birdlike 0]

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I was thinking about this as I read the newspaper recently.

I was reading an article that could not refer to blacks as "African-Americans" because the blacks were, I think, Canadian.

Last time I checked, Canada was the largest country in America (north or south).

Oh, please. Do you dispute that on this continent, people refer to the two countries as "America" and "Canada"?

When Canadians travel abroad, and people ask them where they're from, do they say, "Oh, America"? Or do they say, "Canada"? And do they call themselves "Americans," or "Canadians"?

Why would you split this hair like this? I'm asking, do people in Canada refer to blacks there as "African-Canadians," or "African-Americans" (which is even more absurd, as I've made clear above), or just "blacks"?

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[birdlike 0]

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Do you live on water Capt..

.Most countries base their size on Land area...otherwise I think Some of the Island nations of the Pacific might be a tad larger if they include their ocean area.

Does any of your nitpicking alter the fact that Candians are Americans?

What Canadian refers to his nationality as "American"?

How can you possibly be comfortably arguing in such bad faith?

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many people have pointed out here that, for example, those of us with Irish or African ancestry shouldn't call ourselves Irish-americans or african-americans, if we've never been there ourselves.

so by that logic, all US citizens born here are Native Americans.

Exactly! So perhaps to differentiate PROPERLY, those currently referred to (wrongly) as "Native Americans" should be referred to as "ORIGINAL Americans".

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[misaltas 0]

Ridiculous euphemism? I think quite a bit of this thread is ridiculous.

At this time, it seems most blacks in the US prefer to refer to themselves, and for others to refer to them as African-American.

So, it doesn't matter to me whether the words that make up that term are etymologically correct nor what the land mass of Canada is in hectares. When I'm in a position to need a term to use, I'll prefer the term those it applies to prefer.

That way, when that term is later ditched for something else, and that one is ditched for something else, I'll always be ready with the one that shows the most respect and is the most understood.

Oh, and I am a US citizen who (right or wrong to you) prefers the term "American".

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[Skyrad 0]

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So how do the Brits refer to "African-Americans" then?

We call them Americans. If you mean what do we call black people we call them Black people, (which is what they call themselves)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
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A-A has no relation to fact, it is an artificial category.

White South Africans who have emigrated to the US are not categorized as A-A, they are Caucasian.

Plus, I had a conversation with the Kenyan parents of a child born in America. They said that they regard it is as a matter of culture.

Americans are more European in culture and so the Africans do not consider American black citizens to be "African-American".

Spot on

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 2,151]

Ten consecutive posts in the same thread making much the same point. Are you paid by the word for typing?

...

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[Nigel 0]

Yes, it's totally ridiculous, given that we're all out of Africa. Some of us have just been out of Africa longer than others...

If I ever need to describe anyone, I use whatever features they have...white, black, tall, short, etc.

'Fat' is the really dangerous term though. I've given in and use 'well-nourished' now....

[crwtom 0]

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At least "African-American" is more accurate than "black"

if you ever dealt with making a diversity case for federal or state money you know these are two very different things. It does not get you any points if you recruit a black person from Tanzania or Cameroon. To count as a diversity effort the passport has to be US-American.

On the surface the reasoning is, I guess, that these funded people will stay in the US and add to the diversity of the workforce with all the ramifications of serving as example for younger generations. My sense though is that somewhere in the back of the mind of many is also the equation "African-American"="Slave Descendant" -- so maybe calling it a "euphemism" is not so far off the target. (Technically, this is still different since you'd have to verify the nationality of three or four previous generations).

The correlation of slave-decency (and later segregation) and the unusual difficulties of integration set the "African-American" group apart from most other "XYZ-Americans". All groups seem to be able to overcome the worst economic hurdles (and deal with the usual bigotry) in a generation or two.

The devastating long term effects of slavery are more along the lines of the destruction of an "aspirational culture" of the group, consisting of family traditions/value, role models, pride in collective achievements/identity, work ethics and codes. Africans had all that (albeit in more primitive forms) in their home continent and all of that was thoroughly eradicated after they were released from slavery as "African-Americans".

Many see the reparation of this damage as a responsibility of the whole country.

Cheers, T

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[Butters 0]

I think it is ridiculous and does more to divide than unite the races ... We are Americans (unless of course you have both African and American citizenship, then you're African-American)!

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[warpedskydiver 0]

[supertamp song] Nigger, silly little nigger, can you put your hands on your head, oh no, oh no [/supertramp song]

There, now is everyone happy, or was that too politically incorrect?

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So how do the Brits refer to "African-Americans" then?

We call them Americans. If you mean what do we call black people we call them Black people, (which is what they call themselves)

That's my point. If black people are just called "black people" (if they have to be called anything at all), why do those in America insist on "African-American" even if they were born here and never have even visited Africa, but if a person is black in England, or Canada, he's just going to be "black"?

That was my original point, and through all the digression, we have somehow returned to it. Imagine that!

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[Amazon 7]

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That's my point. If black people are just called "black people" (if they have to be called anything at all), why do those in America insist on "African-American" even if they were born here and never have even visited Africa, but if a person is black in England, or Canada, he's just going to be "black"?

That was my original point, and through all the digression, we have somehow returned to it. Imagine that!

I do tend to believe that the British... and the Canadians.... might have a different "history" concerning blacks... than what we have in THIS country.

They certainly have had differing opportunities in the last couple centuries.

[birdlike 0]

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That's my point. If black people are just called "black people" (if they have to be called anything at all), why do those in America insist on "African-American" even if they were born here and never have even visited Africa, but if a person is black in England, or Canada, he's just going to be "black"?

That was my original point, and through all the digression, we have somehow returned to it. Imagine that!

I do tend to believe that the British... and the Canadians.... might have a different "history" concerning blacks... than what we have in THIS country.

They certainly have had differing opportunities in the last couple centuries.

"Different from," not "different than."

And what does opportunity have to do with what to call an ethnic group?

And are you saying that there is any less opportunity in the U.S. for a black person than there is for a Canadian black person? We do have a black man running for president.

Oh, I get it, that one doesn't count because Obama isn't black enough for you to consider him black. I know there's gonna be some excuse why "the ability to actually be in the running to be president of the U.S." doesn't count toward proving that blacks have opportunity in this country.

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