NickDG 23 #1 August 14, 2008 The controller involved seemed a bit different than the norm. I'd think he'd automatically assign the longest RWY, especially for a pilot with a pitch issue. Then when he asked for the number of souls on board, and is told 51, he asks does that include the crew? What'd he expect? A crew of atheists? And then the topper is rather than refer to the emergency equipment on the ground as that, he uses the word crash. Not exactly the word you want to interject into the cockpit conversation at that point. Maybe any single one of those things I wouldn't have noticed but all three caught my ear . . . Oh, and it was an emergency slide that deployed in the tail area and was rubbing on the control cables that caused the pitch problems. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Politics/story?id=5581453&page=1 NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Broke 0 #2 August 14, 2008 Does Obama count as a soul?Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #3 August 15, 2008 QuoteDoes Obama count as a soul? Only in speakers corner, in the bonfire he is just an other asshole like the rest of us......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #4 August 15, 2008 Sounds pretty normal to me. When you declare they give you what ever you want. They would not assign a runway. As for the word Crash, he started to say Crash Response Vehicles and stopped himself. Handled well IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #5 August 15, 2008 Souls on board is old school, now we try to say people on board. The CFR thing would have stumped me. I always ask if they want "the equipment" standing by. Asking which runway they want is fine. Let them have their choice. Many variables, so don't climb in the cockpit too much. If you think the pilot is making bad choices, you can then advise him to make alternate decisions. I think the controller was a bit slow to pick up on what the problem was, but there may have been a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes. Besides, with as many different types of emergencies that can happen, sometimes you just need to ask a few more question. On this subject, I must say I speak with authority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gonzalesna 1 #6 August 15, 2008 Quote The controller involved seemed a bit different than the norm. I'd think he'd automatically assign the longest RWY, especially for a pilot with a pitch issue. Then when he asked for the number of souls on board, and is told 51, he asks does that include the crew? What'd he expect? A crew of atheists? And then the topper is rather than refer to the emergency equipment on the ground as that, he uses the word crash. Not exactly the word you want to interject into the cockpit conversation at that point. Maybe any single one of those things I wouldn't have noticed but all three caught my ear . . . Oh, and it was an emergency slide that deployed in the tail area and was rubbing on the control cables that caused the pitch problems. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Politics/story?id=5581453&page=1 NickD Worked hand in hand with controllers back in 29 palms. Not one thing sounded out of the ordinary. We frequently referred to CFR as just crash for short and souls on board is still quite common. The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies. Standard procedure for confirmation. The ABC title of the article is nothing more than media draws. You do it every time you write something. The title should want to draw the reader into the story, as well as the first paragraph. This keeps them reading and digging to find out what made them so interested. This was nothing out of the ordinary as far as procedures go.Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #7 August 15, 2008 >>The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies.You're over explaining what I would assume most already know. I'm saying that after asking for SOB it's funny to then further ask, is that including everyone? SOB means just that, everybody. Do you think the pilot doesn't understand what SOB means? It's a useless second question to ask (is that everybody) and just increases the pilot's workload (probably the CP working comms.) When the controller asked for fuel on board, going by your logic, he should have followed up with, are you counting all the tanks? On the RWY part, again, yes we all know it's the Captain's choice but out of two parallel RWYS available have you ever heard a pilot say, "I'd rather have the shorter one." And I think a better controller would have just suggested the longer one. Which is what the pilot wanted anyway. Again, another waste of time on useless chit-chat. Time better spent by the pilots concentrating on flying and troubleshooting their problem. And if the Captain wanted something extra, or out of the ordinary, he'd ask for it. A gabby controller is like a gabby barber, a PITA . . . And why did this thread get moved SC. Just because it mentioned Obama? That's weak . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #8 August 15, 2008 Quote And then the topper is rather than refer to the emergency equipment on the ground as that, he uses the word crash. Not exactly the word you want to interject into the cockpit conversation at that point. When everyone knows what any other euphemism they might have employed actually meant, does it really make any difference if they substitute some P.C. bullshit like "destructive landing event"? Are we that thin-skinned? Are we about to see a poll on SC: "Does the use of the world 'CRASH' in aviation parlance OFFEND you?" I find this interesting: "Unbeknownst to the pilot, an emergency evacuation slide had inflated inside the tail of the jet, affecting control cables there." Holy shit. Who designs an aircraft where this is even possible? "Let's see, where to stow this inflatable doohicky? Oh, I know! Let's put it where IF it inadvertently inflates, it'll rob the pilot of pitch authority!" Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,173 #9 August 15, 2008 >"Let's see, where to stow this inflatable doohicky? Oh, I know! Let's put >it where IF it inadvertently inflates, it'll rob the pilot of pitch authority!" There is no place on board a typical commercial aircraft where you can safely inflate an evacuation slide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #10 August 15, 2008 Quote There is no place on board a typical commercial aircraft where you can safely inflate an evacuation slide. Why would you want to? It's much more fun the slide down them. The 777 is a little hairy. Thats a long fall and it's a steep one on top of that.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gonzalesna 1 #11 August 15, 2008 Quote >>The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies.You're over explaining what I would assume most already know. I'm saying that after asking for SOB it's funny to then further ask, is that including everyone? SOB means just that, everybody. Do you think the pilot doesn't understand what SOB means? It's a useless second question to ask (is that everybody) and just increases the pilot's workload (probably the CP working comms.) When the controller asked for fuel on board, going by your logic, he should have followed up with, are you counting all the tanks? On the RWY part, again, yes we all know it's the Captain's choice but out of two parallel RWYS available have you ever heard a pilot say, "I'd rather have the shorter one." And I think a better controller would have just suggested the longer one. Which is what the pilot wanted anyway. Again, another waste of time on useless chit-chat. Time better spent by the pilots concentrating on flying and troubleshooting their problem. And if the Captain wanted something extra, or out of the ordinary, he'd ask for it. A gabby controller is like a gabby barber, a PITA . . . And why did this thread get moved SC. Just because it mentioned Obama? That's weak . . . NickD No, it's not out of the ordinary to confirm SOB. In emergency situations, that's definately not a number you want to miscommunicate. I've been in the control tower in 29 Palms when they did drills, and that was part of it. You're right, he should've confirmed fuel status, but he didn't. The purpose is to get an estimated weight of an aircraft during touchdown in case of a need for an arrested landing. I don't know if commercial airliners have arresting gear or not, but I do know fire needs to know fuel quantity as well for flame retardant necessity. On runway selection, it's not always based on length. It may also be in relation to inbound direction. Would you rather a controller just assume which one you want or give you an option? Also, he made no mention of Senator Obama being on board until after giving the runway choice.Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Broke 0 #2 August 14, 2008 Does Obama count as a soul?Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #3 August 15, 2008 QuoteDoes Obama count as a soul? Only in speakers corner, in the bonfire he is just an other asshole like the rest of us......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #4 August 15, 2008 Sounds pretty normal to me. When you declare they give you what ever you want. They would not assign a runway. As for the word Crash, he started to say Crash Response Vehicles and stopped himself. Handled well IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #5 August 15, 2008 Souls on board is old school, now we try to say people on board. The CFR thing would have stumped me. I always ask if they want "the equipment" standing by. Asking which runway they want is fine. Let them have their choice. Many variables, so don't climb in the cockpit too much. If you think the pilot is making bad choices, you can then advise him to make alternate decisions. I think the controller was a bit slow to pick up on what the problem was, but there may have been a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes. Besides, with as many different types of emergencies that can happen, sometimes you just need to ask a few more question. On this subject, I must say I speak with authority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalesna 1 #6 August 15, 2008 Quote The controller involved seemed a bit different than the norm. I'd think he'd automatically assign the longest RWY, especially for a pilot with a pitch issue. Then when he asked for the number of souls on board, and is told 51, he asks does that include the crew? What'd he expect? A crew of atheists? And then the topper is rather than refer to the emergency equipment on the ground as that, he uses the word crash. Not exactly the word you want to interject into the cockpit conversation at that point. Maybe any single one of those things I wouldn't have noticed but all three caught my ear . . . Oh, and it was an emergency slide that deployed in the tail area and was rubbing on the control cables that caused the pitch problems. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Politics/story?id=5581453&page=1 NickD Worked hand in hand with controllers back in 29 palms. Not one thing sounded out of the ordinary. We frequently referred to CFR as just crash for short and souls on board is still quite common. The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies. Standard procedure for confirmation. The ABC title of the article is nothing more than media draws. You do it every time you write something. The title should want to draw the reader into the story, as well as the first paragraph. This keeps them reading and digging to find out what made them so interested. This was nothing out of the ordinary as far as procedures go.Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 August 15, 2008 >>The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies.You're over explaining what I would assume most already know. I'm saying that after asking for SOB it's funny to then further ask, is that including everyone? SOB means just that, everybody. Do you think the pilot doesn't understand what SOB means? It's a useless second question to ask (is that everybody) and just increases the pilot's workload (probably the CP working comms.) When the controller asked for fuel on board, going by your logic, he should have followed up with, are you counting all the tanks? On the RWY part, again, yes we all know it's the Captain's choice but out of two parallel RWYS available have you ever heard a pilot say, "I'd rather have the shorter one." And I think a better controller would have just suggested the longer one. Which is what the pilot wanted anyway. Again, another waste of time on useless chit-chat. Time better spent by the pilots concentrating on flying and troubleshooting their problem. And if the Captain wanted something extra, or out of the ordinary, he'd ask for it. A gabby controller is like a gabby barber, a PITA . . . And why did this thread get moved SC. Just because it mentioned Obama? That's weak . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #8 August 15, 2008 Quote And then the topper is rather than refer to the emergency equipment on the ground as that, he uses the word crash. Not exactly the word you want to interject into the cockpit conversation at that point. When everyone knows what any other euphemism they might have employed actually meant, does it really make any difference if they substitute some P.C. bullshit like "destructive landing event"? Are we that thin-skinned? Are we about to see a poll on SC: "Does the use of the world 'CRASH' in aviation parlance OFFEND you?" I find this interesting: "Unbeknownst to the pilot, an emergency evacuation slide had inflated inside the tail of the jet, affecting control cables there." Holy shit. Who designs an aircraft where this is even possible? "Let's see, where to stow this inflatable doohicky? Oh, I know! Let's put it where IF it inadvertently inflates, it'll rob the pilot of pitch authority!" Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #9 August 15, 2008 >"Let's see, where to stow this inflatable doohicky? Oh, I know! Let's put >it where IF it inadvertently inflates, it'll rob the pilot of pitch authority!" There is no place on board a typical commercial aircraft where you can safely inflate an evacuation slide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #10 August 15, 2008 Quote There is no place on board a typical commercial aircraft where you can safely inflate an evacuation slide. Why would you want to? It's much more fun the slide down them. The 777 is a little hairy. Thats a long fall and it's a steep one on top of that.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalesna 1 #11 August 15, 2008 Quote >>The question of 51 SOB (Souls on board) including everyone is just a confirmation to ensure that everyone is accounted for in case of a wreck of some type in which they evacuate the plane or have to look for bodies.You're over explaining what I would assume most already know. I'm saying that after asking for SOB it's funny to then further ask, is that including everyone? SOB means just that, everybody. Do you think the pilot doesn't understand what SOB means? It's a useless second question to ask (is that everybody) and just increases the pilot's workload (probably the CP working comms.) When the controller asked for fuel on board, going by your logic, he should have followed up with, are you counting all the tanks? On the RWY part, again, yes we all know it's the Captain's choice but out of two parallel RWYS available have you ever heard a pilot say, "I'd rather have the shorter one." And I think a better controller would have just suggested the longer one. Which is what the pilot wanted anyway. Again, another waste of time on useless chit-chat. Time better spent by the pilots concentrating on flying and troubleshooting their problem. And if the Captain wanted something extra, or out of the ordinary, he'd ask for it. A gabby controller is like a gabby barber, a PITA . . . And why did this thread get moved SC. Just because it mentioned Obama? That's weak . . . NickD No, it's not out of the ordinary to confirm SOB. In emergency situations, that's definately not a number you want to miscommunicate. I've been in the control tower in 29 Palms when they did drills, and that was part of it. You're right, he should've confirmed fuel status, but he didn't. The purpose is to get an estimated weight of an aircraft during touchdown in case of a need for an arrested landing. I don't know if commercial airliners have arresting gear or not, but I do know fire needs to know fuel quantity as well for flame retardant necessity. On runway selection, it's not always based on length. It may also be in relation to inbound direction. Would you rather a controller just assume which one you want or give you an option? Also, he made no mention of Senator Obama being on board until after giving the runway choice.Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
