Texas executes American

[Nightingale 0]

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Wait, what does corruption or fallibility of the system have to do with a case in which the murderer is definitely a murderer, definitely committed the crime, admits the crime and states he has no remorse over the crime?

I thought the arguments against the death penalty had to do principally with the inability to be sure the system got the right guy! When we KNOW we got the right guy, what's wrong with executing him? There's no chance that we're executing an innocent, in such a case.

There have been many documented cases where people have confessed for various reasons (pressure, not understanding proceedings, mental illness, notoriety, etc...) and have been found to be innocent later on.

[birdlike 0]

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...unfit people would abort rather than bring about children they can't properly raise? Why aren't they doing that now?

Ummhhh....they don't care, or maybe they get paid for each child in some states?

That's partly my point. I wasn't asking, it was rhetorical. I was getting at the point that nothing is currently stopping these unfit people from not having kids. There are free condoms, there is abortion, there's even adoption, but instead of choosing any of those three, they are still going ahead and raising little monsters in horrible homes, teaching horrible values.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Oh, and for the vocal minority who want life sentences for murderers: well, this guy was already on a life sentence, just as you want. Then he escaped and murdered again. If he had been executed in the first place for the murder of his wife, then Officer Hawkins would still be alive today.

I'm interested that your solution is to bump a prisoner off, rather than the pretty obvious alternative of making the prison secure in the first place.

Don't you think that prisons are already an attempt to keep criminals securely inside and away from the public? You make it sound like no one's thought of making prisons secure and that's why these dangerous criminals escape to kill more people.

For what it's worth, JohnRich did not suggest "bumping off" anyone. Execution is done with the legal authority of the state. "Bumping off" is an illicit killing.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
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[birdlike 0]

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You are actually counting on the idea that unfit people would abort rather than bring about children they can't properly raise? Why aren't they doing that now? Abortion is legal!

And essentially unavailable in MOST of the country.

http://www.abortionisprolife.com/statistics.htm

(6) physician shortage in many counties so that woman must travel to major cities to have an abortion (84% of all counties in the U.S. have no abortion provider, and 94% of rural counties have none),

Supply would not be expected to follow demand? I somehow doubt that if there was sufficient desire for abortions in more places that no one would end up showing up to perform them there.

Besides, I don't really guess that the places that really need the kind of "service" that abortion provides really concentrate out in the sticks so much as in the inner cities and metropolitan areas where no, I don't think there is a shortage of abortion providers.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
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[birdlike 0]

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Yup, I know.

I just wasn't real sure how much of it you see in your day to day life. I see it every single day with a wide range of people. No racial lines, it penetrates all the different racial groups I come in contact with.

The entire group is the "I want to live off the government, not work and just get drunk and/or high every day." Needless to say those kids aren't cared for very well and creates a cycle of families that refuse to contribute to society.

I would love to read in depth what a person in your position (you're a cop, I take it?) feels ought to be done, or could be done, to remedy that situation.

I mean every possibility would be on the table, from a Nazi-esque "You contribute nothing, so you die" kind of thing all the way to the "Oh, let us throw educational opportunities and remedial classes at you until you manage to graduate with a degree" feelgood socialism.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Wait, what does corruption or fallibility of the system have to do with a case in which the murderer is definitely a murderer, definitely committed the crime, admits the crime and states he has no remorse over the crime?

I thought the arguments against the death penalty had to do principally with the inability to be sure the system got the right guy! When we KNOW we got the right guy, what's wrong with executing him? There's no chance that we're executing an innocent, in such a case.

There have been many documented cases where people have confessed for various reasons (pressure, not understanding proceedings, mental illness, notoriety, etc...) and have been found to be innocent later on.

I just cannot see anyone being willing to confess to a capital crime because of "pressure." If you didn't do it, the words, "OK, I did it," should never come out of your mouth.

And if there was no pressure, and some nutball just wants to confess, who am I to tell him he can't take the rap for the crime? Sorry, it's not society's fault some people are the sick "confessor" types.

But who said I was talking strictly from a confession standpoint? How about the guy who shot that DNC guy, or Colin Ferguson from the LIRR in '94 or '95? NO QUESTION about guilt. If the DNC shooter had not been killed, but instead faced trial and execution, where would the ambiguity be? What cause would death penalty opponents have to say, "We could be making a mistake and killing the wrong guy"?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
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[normiss 883]

research some legal cases in Ada, OK.
just a few should suffice.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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I just cannot see anyone being willing to confess to a capital crime because of "pressure." If you didn't do it, the words, "OK, I did it," should never come out of your mouth.

Torture works quite well to extract false confessions.

[birdlike 0]

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I just cannot see anyone being willing to confess to a capital crime because of "pressure." If you didn't do it, the words, "OK, I did it," should never come out of your mouth.

Torture works quite well to extract false confessions.

Then wouldn't we do better to address eliminating the use of torture, than throwing out the confessions that it elicits?

And if we can't manage to keep torture from being used by American legal authorities (police, etc.) what hope do we have of ever having any confession to any crime be trustworthy in a court--capital case or not??

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
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[Channman 2]

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>So the tax payer can support this piece of shit the rest of his natural life?

Better than spending even more on the execution process. Life in jail is just plain cheaper.

If the reason not to execute is related to cost why not model our executions after China. Pop em in the head and harvest their body parts for money.

[akarunway 1]

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>So the tax payer can support this piece of shit the rest of his natural life?

Better than spending even more on the execution process. Life in jail is just plain cheaper.

If the reason not to execute is related to cost why not model our executions after China. Pop em in the head and harvest their body parts for money.

And charge the family for the bullet. Brass, copper and lead are a commodity nowadays don't ya know?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[BIGUN 1,457]

I am opposed to the death penalty.
A permanent "solution" demands a perfect process and we don't have that.

On the other hand, I also believe that civilian prisons should be run like military prisons... work all day from 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM. No degrees, no cable, no nothing, but hard labor or being in one's cell - period.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[tbrown 26]

Although I am opposed to the death penalty in general, I was recently cold blooded enough to suggest that a pinata and mariachi band might be appropriate for the execution of a Mexican national in Texas. In that spirit, I suppose invited witnesses should rise for The Star Spangled Banner (Kate Smith recording) for executions of American citizens.

Or maybe "Dixie" if the asshole has a Confederate flag tattoo....

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[birdlike 0]

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I am opposed to the death penalty.
A permanent "solution" demands a perfect process and we don't have that.

On the other hand, I also believe that civilian prisons should be run like military prisons... work all day from 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM. No degrees, no cable, no nothing, but hard labor or being in one's cell - period.

My big objection is that the liberals in the U.S. stand in the way of capital punishment as much as possible, and the alternatives that they leave open are never near harsh enough. Like you said, run it like a military prison. But suggest that to the liberals, and they get squicked-out and would never allow it. So what the fuck does it leave us? Coddled criminals.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[DJL 235]

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Let's see if the anti-death penalty liberals care as much about this American prisoner as they did about the executed Mexican.

I would more satisfied having him alive in ma 4 foot by 4 foot room with no windows and no communication with other humans., Now that's suffering. Death is the easy way out for assholes like this guy.

Ditto. Shove rice, beans, and a glass of water through the hole twice a day. Pump soapy water from the ceiling when it smells. Dump the body out the bottom when it smells really bad.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[mnealtx 0]

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I am opposed to the death penalty.
A permanent "solution" demands a perfect process and we don't have that.

On the other hand, I also believe that civilian prisons should be run like military prisons... work all day from 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM. No degrees, no cable, no nothing, but hard labor or being in one's cell - period.

*Strongly agree*

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[birdlike 0]

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I am opposed to the death penalty.
A permanent "solution" demands a perfect process and we don't have that.

On the other hand, I also believe that civilian prisons should be run like military prisons... work all day from 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM. No degrees, no cable, no nothing, but hard labor or being in one's cell - period.

*Strongly agree*

Yeah, but as I said, "Ain't never gonna HAPPEN!"

Why would we waste our time dreaming of giving violent criminals actual harsh punishment, as though the same liberals who oppose a painless, clinical execution would ever let us treat criminals as harshly as they deserve.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire