WTF is Russia Doing?

[Frenchy68 0]

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If the Ossetians are Russian citizens why are they living in Georgia and fomenting an independence movement? Sounds like invaders to me.

When the USSR broke into pieces, people only had Soviet passports. When Russia started issuing passports, it gave the opportunity to all Russian nationals to have Russian passports. It so happens that some of them were in Southern Ossetia. And it is always hard to ask someone to leave his/her ancestral land because a border just popped up.
What I find geopolitically interesting in these events is that Russia is supporting a breakaway territory. Drive few kilometers to the North-East and you find yourself in Chechnya, where Russia has a slightly different position on the locals' independence aspirations..

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 3,107]

>So who's job is it to resolve things, by force if needed?

By whoever the country has agreed to let enforce such things. For some countries it's the UN or NATO. For others it's no one.

[gonzalesna 0]

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>So who's job is it to resolve things, by force if needed?

By whoever the country has agreed to let enforce such things. For some countries it's the UN or NATO. For others it's no one.

So relating back to your scenario, if your neighbor's wife was being abused and there were no cops in the area, you should say screw it and let her continue to be abused because there aren't any designated authorities to resolve the situation.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[billvon 3,107]

>if your neighbor's wife was being abused and there were no cops in the
>area, you should say screw it and let her continue to be abused . . .

Nope. Go over there and get him to stop using your brain rather than your gun.

[gonzalesna 0]

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>if your neighbor's wife was being abused and there were no cops in the
>area, you should say screw it and let her continue to be abused . . .

Nope. Go over there and get him to stop using your brain rather than your gun.

Right, because if we'd gone up to Saddam and said you should be nice to people, he'd have turned around and said, "Oh, very well. I guess you're right." And I suppose Hitler could've been reasoned with as well.

Japan attacked us and we did it on our own because we had the physical strength to manage on our own. Fine and dandy when that strength exists.

Germany never attacked us, but we helped out in Europe. Europe needed our help and we aided them. We didn't do it all by ourselves, but it's doubtful that Hitler would've lost without our input. But hey, next time, we'll just let 'em go at it, because, hey, it's not our fight.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[FallingOsh 0]

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Right, because if we'd gone up to Saddam and said you should be nice to people, he'd have turned around and said, "Oh, very well. I guess you're right." And I suppose Hitler could've been reasoned with as well.

Yeah. Just like Iran and Al Quieda will. Haven't you been listening to Obama's plan?

You righties are all the same.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[billvon 3,107]

>Right, because if we'd gone up to Saddam and said you should be nice
>to people, he'd have turned around and said, "Oh, very well. I guess
>you're right."

?? He did. He asked us before he invaded Kuwait to see if it was OK; we said we didn't care what he did. We told him we were going to invade unless he dismantled his WMD program; he did. We told him to stop harassing UN inspectors; he did.

We sold him chemical weapons precursors and helicopters to disperse chemical weapons with; he used them against the Iranians as we intended. Then he used them on his own people. At first we didn't care. The famous Saddam/Rumsfeld handshake happened AFTER the UN report on Saddam's chemical weapons attacks came out. Then we told him to stop; he did.

>Japan attacked us and we did it on our own because we had the physical
>strength to manage on our own. Fine and dandy when that strength exists.

Right, which is how it should work.

>Germany never attacked us, but we helped out in Europe.

Germany was attacking our merchant marine vessels well before Pearl Harbor Pearl Harbor was just the last straw.

[gonzalesna 0]

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Right, because if we'd gone up to Saddam and said you should be nice to people, he'd have turned around and said, "Oh, very well. I guess you're right." And I suppose Hitler could've been reasoned with as well.

Yeah. Just like Iran and Al Quieda will. Haven't you been listening to Obama's plan?

You righties are all the same.

Riiiight... because he's got a good head on his shoulders.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[gonzalesna 0]

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>Right, because if we'd gone up to Saddam and said you should be nice
>to people, he'd have turned around and said, "Oh, very well. I guess
>you're right."

?? He did. He asked us before he invaded Kuwait to see if it was OK; we said we didn't care what he did. We told him we were going to invade unless he dismantled his WMD program; he did. We told him to stop harassing UN inspectors; he did.

We sold him chemical weapons precursors and helicopters to disperse chemical weapons with; he used them against the Iranians as we intended. Then he used them on his own people. At first we didn't care. The famous Saddam/Rumsfeld handshake happened AFTER the UN report on Saddam's chemical weapons attacks came out. Then we told him to stop; he did.

>Japan attacked us and we did it on our own because we had the physical
>strength to manage on our own. Fine and dandy when that strength exists.

Right, which is how it should work.

>Germany never attacked us, but we helped out in Europe.

Germany was attacking our merchant marine vessels well before Pearl Harbor Pearl Harbor was just the last straw.

Because we all know Germany was ultimately behind the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[billvon 3,107]

>Because we all know Germany was ultimately behind the attack on Pearl Harbor.

No, Japan was; Germany was just attacking us for other reasons, and their status as allies made Pearl Harbor the catalyzing event for the declaration of war against both. Sorta akin to how we went to war with Afghanistan due to their support of Al Qaeda.

[gonzalesna 0]

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>Because we all know Germany was ultimately behind the attack on Pearl Harbor.

No, Japan was; Germany was just attacking us for other reasons, and their status as allies made Pearl Harbor the catalyzing event for the declaration of war against both. Sorta akin to how we went to war with Afghanistan due to their support of Al Qaeda.

Except that we went to war alongside their government and never had any combat with their military because our target was Al Qaeda, not Afghanistan.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[mnealtx 0]

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>if your neighbor's wife was being abused and there were no cops in the
>area, you should say screw it and let her continue to be abused . . .

Nope. Go over there and get him to stop using your brain rather than your gun.

Non-violent solutions only work with those who are not predisposed to be violent in the first place.

If your idea worked with any sort of consistency, cops would never have to answer domestic abuse calls and there'd never be another woman killed by an abusive husband/boyfriend.

*as always, attachment courtesy of Oleg Volk*

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Haven't you been listening to Obama's plan?

Is that the one where all the world's problems are solved by the Care-Bear® tummy-beams of ChangeHope?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[gonzalesna 0]

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Haven't you been listening to Obama's plan?

Is that the one where all the world's problems are solved by the Care-Bear® tummy-beams of ChangeHope?

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[billvon 3,107]

>Except that we went to war alongside their government . . .

Uh, you might want to review your history books just a tad.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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If the Ossetians are Russian citizens why are they living in Georgia and fomenting an independence movement? Sounds like invaders to me.

When the USSR broke into pieces, people only had Soviet passports. When Russia started issuing passports, it gave the opportunity to all Russian nationals to have Russian passports. It so happens that some of them were in Southern Ossetia. And it is always hard to ask someone to leave his/her ancestral land because a border just popped up.
What I find geopolitically interesting in these events is that Russia is supporting a breakaway territory. Drive few kilometers to the North-East and you find yourself in Chechnya, where Russia has a slightly different position on the locals' independence aspirations..

Sort of like the Serbians in Croatia and Bosnia.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Sort of like the Serbians in Croatia and Bosnia.

Sort of like many places where at one point someone drew a line and decided there would be 1 country on each side of the line.
Then you mix in historical issues (where to start in the Caucasus, between the Russians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Turks, Iranians, and all sorts of sub-groups to be found there).
Thinking that one side is clearly right and the other clearly wrong is, in my opinion, making a gross error in estimating the underlying cause of such conflicts.
I also sense that Russia's heavy handed response had as much to do with sending a clear message to the Ukrainians and the West as it had to do with going after Georgian troops.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I also sense that Russia's heavy handed response had as much to do with sending a clear message to the Ukrainians and the West as it had to do with going after Georgian troops.

Ya think?

[kelpdiver 2]

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>if your neighbor's wife was being abused and there were no cops in the
>area, you should say screw it and let her continue to be abused . . .

Nope. Go over there and get him to stop using your brain rather than your gun.

I wouldn't want him using either of those to beat his wife. Though I suspect the wife would prefer my brain to my gun.

[auburnguy 0]

This is an extremely delicate situation that demands great restraint and political diplomacy, NOT fighting. As much as I love fighting this is not the time for it.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[Gawain 0]

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WTF is Russia Doing?

It now appears they are advancing further into Georgia after announcing a halt in advancing military action.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_russia
The response was disproportionate, and it was something that was clearly planned months ago. The first to feel the real pinch may be the EU, who now must endure an even cozier uncomfortable relationship with Putin.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

People also need to remember that the soviets took great pains for more than 50 years to displace populations from the eastern and southern "states" to gulags in Siberia which included areas they needed to populate so they could develop resources.. They replaced the ethnic peoples from those states with ethnic Russians. The fact that so many Russians are in EACH of the new countries.. is a legacy of those policies that came from the Stalinist Politburo and was continued into the 50's, 60's and 70's.

[billvon 3,107]

>Because we all know Germany was ultimately behind the attack on
>Pearl Harbor.

If you say so, Mr. Blutarsky!

[georgerussia 0]

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When the USSR broke into pieces, people only had Soviet passports. When Russia started issuing passports, it gave the opportunity to all Russian nationals to have Russian passports.

Well, not really. In fact, a lot of Abkhasian/Southern Ossetian got their passports illegally. There are two types of passport in Russia - the internal passport used only inside the country (valid till you reach 20 or 45, then needs to be replaced), and foreign passport for traveling aboard (valid only for 5 years). A Russian consulate was not legally allowed to issue internal passports - only the Ministry of Internal Affairs was. But Ministry of Internal Affairs has no jurisdiction on foreign territory either. Nevertheless, a lot of Abkhasian/Southern Ossetian still got internal Russian passports from the consulate. It made news in 2001, but the story was quickly shut down. Most of them still keep internal passports.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Yes, it IS quite simple, actually... Georgia attacked the Ossetians, who defended themselves. At the same time Georgia directly attacked Russian peacekeeping forces in Tshinvali (10 to 15 people were killed in the first night attack). Russia defended their own forces AND Ossetians, most of which are Russian citizens. What other reaction from Russia would you expect? BTW, those forces have been operating there under UN decree since 1992.

You are describing the situation like you have seen it yourself. While, in fact, you're just quoting Russian news web sites (yeah, I read them too).

It's funny that you consider "ABCBBSCNN" news (from the countries who are not directly involved in conflict) biased, but consider news from the country which IS involved into conflict as "the only true". Even though you definitely know that there is no more independent news agencies in Russia.

BTW, have you ever checked Georgian news?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *