Provoking War with Iran

[cumplidor 0]

Think Progress

"Hersh explained that, during the meeting in Cheney’s office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them."

Can anyone say "Gulf of Tonkin?"

hmm, I wonder how many other 'False Flag Operations' are 'still on the table' to get the WW3 wish to come true...

[Para_Frog 1]

Wow. Not one verifiable source in any of the articles.

Nice work there.

Patton was in here the other day briefing us on the moon invasion set for next Tuesday.

No really. It happened.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[idrankwhat 0]

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Wow. Not one verifiable source in any of the articles.

I wouldn't completely dismiss it. Remember this?
And it says Mr Bush told Mr Blair the US "was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours".

If Saddam fired on them, the Iraqis would be in breach of UN resolutions, he suggested.

[livendive 8]

Rest assured, we're still trying to provoke it, just not so overtly.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Para_Frog 1]

That's nifty, but the BBC story cites no named sources either.

It's amazing to me that anyone can go throw whatever they want in a book and the tin hats snap it up as fact.

Funny thing is - conspiracy theorists base this acceptance on pure faith, yet villify those with religiosity for the most part.

Not to say that these events DIDN'T happen, but if you require proof of God/Budda/FSM, then I would expect you to require more proof of these whack stories.

The level of stupidity out there is just so reassuring.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[idrankwhat 0]

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That's nifty, but the BBC story cites no named sources either.

I've found plenty of references to the story regarding the memo from the January 31, 2003 meeting with descriptions of annotations and numerous quotes but I can't find a source that has a copy of the actual memo. I'm still looking. The only thing I've found are various quotes from officials stating that the memo is authentic and that the NY times said that it was able the view the five page document. Also, I have not found where the White House denied the claim but that's not "evidence". So, basically I'm left with lots of public officials admitting to the validity of the claim, the consistency with previous memos such as the Downing Street and Manning memos that we received but I have no hard evidence in hand.

I suppose I'll have to settle for "highly probable".

[Para_Frog 1]

Well sure, because those memos are usually always genuine.

Ask Dan Rather.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[idrankwhat 0]

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Well sure, because those memos are usually always genuine.

Ask Dan Rather.

In that case the memo was not genuine but the material in the memo was accurate. Are you saying that the Downing street and Manning memos were not genuine either?

[Amazon 7]

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The level of stupidity out there is just so reassuring.

No wonder then that you probably supported the Bush Administration for the last 7+ years..

I bet you are mightily reassured by now.

[livendive 8]

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Funny thing is - conspiracy theorists base this acceptance on pure faith, yet villify those with religiosity for the most part.

Where do you get the notion that conspiracy theorists do not have religiosity? Have you read any posts by chuteless? Have you seen the increasingly popular theory that Obama is the anti-Christ?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Para_Frog 1]

No, Ron Paul actually. You knew that woman!

I've said before - never has a president been in such a position to achieve historical greatness and squandered it so perfectly. I mean - it's almost like you have to strategically plan to fuck up opportunity so completely. It's hypnotic in it's perfection.

OP:

The content of the memos was accurate? Are you kidding me? Because some old lady had an opinion about them being so - they're complete fabrication was an afterthought? Holy crap! How do I work with this?

For a lesson in referential and citational due-dilligence, refer questions to Dr. Marg.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Para_Frog 1]

Wrong wing of tin-foil hats.

I should have been more specific. Leftist conspiracy theorists.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[idrankwhat 0]

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The content of the memos was accurate? Are you kidding me? Because some old lady had an opinion about them being so - they're complete fabrication was an afterthought? Holy crap! How do I work with this?

No need to. It has very little to do with the topic of the thread. Again, I'll remind you that I don't have the a copy of the 5 page memo that is referenced.
And I'm not likely to pursue it much further. The content of that memo doesn't vary much from what we all know to be history. The memo in question backs up previous assertions that by numerous people over numerous years that the US had plans to topple Saddam and that the "facts" were being fixed around that policy.

But to get back to the subject of the thread, it's no secret that the same neo-con region builders, who have an extensive paper trail of intention, are still beating the war drums for an invasion of Iran. Given their documented history of fabrication and manipulation of "intelligence" (and the occasional outright lie) it's not outside the realm of possibility that they would attempt to provoke an attack in order to justify "retaliation".

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For a lesson in referential and citational due-dilligence, refer questions to Dr. Marg.

Absolutely, we would all do well to increase the "Marg" factor of our posts.

[Para_Frog 1]

Drawing fire with a U2 v. shooting at your own people are not within the same frame of reality.

There is precedent for the U2 scenario, but I can assure you with some measure of subjective certainty that you would be unable to find a SOCOM commander from top to bottom who would obide by such an asinine order.

The president is a lot of things, but a realistic assessment of his use of military assets does not support any credibility to the unsubstantiated/unreferenced/unaccepted by any main press vein claim of dressing SEALS up in dishdashas and shooting at them.

Now...sending a counter-reconnaissance patrol near or across a "gray" and heavily militarized border in hopes of creating an incident - you betcha.

Shooting at our own guys? Not since we got rid of that fucking retard Doug Feith would it even be mentioned in a wargaming BS session. It's a bunch of conspiracy horseshit, hence why it only resides on a horseshit website.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[idrankwhat 0]

What you just wrote sounds pretty good to me except the "horse shit" sentiment (they're left but they typically have valid references). I don't think they would actually "plan" and execute that scenario. But that's not what Hersh said. He said the idea was mentioned and then dismissed if I recall correctly. But the overall tone of the discussion is what I thought was most important. They were supposedly trying to come up with ways to provoke an incident. That I wholeheartedly believe is likely.

[Para_Frog 1]

As do I, but we have come up with tried and true ways of getting someone to throw the first punch. All of them work just fine. (Task Force Troy was one of my personal favorites).

There is no realistic reason to even bring up such nonsense...unless you are either:

1) Making it up to sell your typical agenda. (ding ding ding)

or

2) You're Doug Feith, who wouldn't understand the dynamics of real armed conflict if you dipped it in chocolate and shoved it up his ass.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Amazon 7]

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rawing fire with a U2 v. shooting at your own people are not within the same frame of reality.

There is precedent for the U2 scenario, but I can assure you with some measure of subjective certainty that you would be unable to find a SOCOM commander from top to bottom who would obide by such an asinine order.

The president is a lot of things, but a realistic assessment of his use of military assets does not support any credibility to the unsubstantiated/unreferenced/unaccepted by any main press vein claim of dressing SEALS up in dishdashas and shooting at them.

Now...sending a counter-reconnaissance patrol near or across a "gray" and heavily militarized border in hopes of creating an incident - you betcha.

Shooting at our own guys? Not since we got rid of that fucking retard Doug Feith would it even be mentioned in a wargaming BS session. It's a bunch of conspiracy horseshit, hence why it only resides on a horseshit website.

Hmm how many of those guys went to work for Blackwater.. or some of the other similar companies that WOULD do such a thing.. and are beholding to the Fuckup in Chief and Friar Cheney and his merry men for all that no bid money they have been getting for the last 6 years.

[Para_Frog 1]

Do your homework Jeanne.

I have a great many friends at BW...again...conspiracy BS. They're primarily bored sentinels for a bunch of mook bureaucrats now.

It just pays a HELL of a lot more than they made working in the pickle suit.

They wouldn't follow illegal orders either - you're disparaging good men again. I expect better from you...especially you.

Where do you think these guys come from? Cheney's extended family? They're retired First Sergeants and the like, the DPS guys have a minimum of 5 years Special Operations experience. IN THE SAME UNIFORM YOU WORE.

Give them a break. Don't hate on them because their CEO had connections and scored at the trough. He takes care of our guys.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Amazon 7]

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Do your homework Jeanne.

I have dahrlin.. and guys like the Nixon Plumbers come from somewhere. Party loyalty to them is everything and honor means nothing.. even when they get lucrative radio contracts later.

The name Liddy.. Hunt...and North...all wore that uniform as well

You might look up John Paisley as well.