mnealtx 0 #151 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteAND given the fact that concealed carry permit owners are, on average, MORE law-abiding than the police, Which has NOTHING to do with making a bona-fide effort to prevent mentally unstable people from getting firearms. It can be done - are YOU willing to have those same criteria used against other rights? QuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Yes, I do - personal experience, discussion with other people, as well as anecdotal evidence from police reports and news stories - what proof do YOU have?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #152 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote AND given the fact that gun owners are, on average, MORE law-abiding than the police, and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. I believe you have to amend that statement to CCW holding gun owners. True, thank you for the reminder - I've amended my post. As we've previously established, the criteria for geting a CCW permit are rather more stringent in most states than the criteria for buying a gun. It seems that the states have been quite successful in filtering out loonies in the CCW process. Yes - an increased criteria OVER AND ABOVE that needed for simple purchase and possession. As I keep asking you and you keep avoiding - are you willing for those SAME criteria to be applied to other rights?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #153 August 6, 2008 Quote I think it's reasonable to admit that it's painfully easy to kill people with guns, quickly and at a distance. Spoken like someone who truly has little to zero experience actually firing guns, particularly handguns. It's not enough that gunshot wounds are, statistically, very survivable. You also evidently have no inkling how difficult it is to keep the muzzle of a handgun on a man-sized target, especially if that target refuses to do you the courtesy of staying still like a paper silhouette. Quote It does no harm to recognize that's what frightens people about guns. But that's no reason to take them away from law abiding gun owners who use them responsibly. Especially not after what happened in New Orleans after Katrina. Now, why did you have to go and say that first part, which made you look totally anti-gun, and then follow it up with this, which makes you seem totally pro-gun?! Now I don't know what to make of you.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #154 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Well... 80,000,000 gun owners 300,000,000 guns 30,000 annual gun-related deaths which includes 15,000 suicides and also justifiable homicides You do the math. I'd say that if we're having only those deaths, with all those guns and gun owners, someone must be behaving awfully fucking well. Maybe you can prove your point by showing us the proof that soooo many CWL holders are shooting people with little or no restraint. We'll wait. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #155 August 6, 2008 In light of your approval of Gore's carbon credit offsets, I have purchased two more AR-15s and another shotgun, I may only have six ARs, but I am working on it, so do not despair. Do you feel better now? Has your anguish subsided?, do you feel less guilty? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #156 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Well... 80,000,000 gun owners 300,000,000 guns 30,000 annual gun-related deaths which includes 15,000 suicides and also justifiable homicides You do the math. I'd say that if we're having only those deaths, with all those guns and gun owners, someone must be behaving awfully fucking well. Ignorance of statistics is no excuse. Your control group is ??????? How many non gun owners shot people? How many people were shot dead without guns being involved? Come back when you have a valid case. Maybe you can prove your point by showing us the proof that soooo many CWL holders are shooting people with little or no restraint. Please link to a post where I claimed any such thing, STRAWMAN I don't have to prove claims that YOU make on my behalf. We'll wait. You'll wait a long time since your argument is just a strawman. My point is that mnealtx has not proved his claim. I don't need to disprove it, he needs to prove it... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #157 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteAND given the fact that concealed carry permit owners are, on average, MORE law-abiding than the police, Which has NOTHING to do with making a bona-fide effort to prevent mentally unstable people from getting firearms. It can be done - are YOU willing to have those same criteria used against other rights? QuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Yes, I do - personal experience, discussion with other people, as well as anecdotal evidence from police reports and news stories - what proof do YOU have? The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". I take it that you have no actual valid proof. AND I don't need to prove you wrong. YOU made the claim, YOU need to prove that your claim is correct.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #158 August 6, 2008 How many LEGAL guns owners have?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #159 August 6, 2008 QuoteHow many LEGAL guns owners have? Have what? I guess I'll have to ask billvon what you mean.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #160 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow many LEGAL guns owners have? Have what? I guess I'll have to ask billvon what you mean. How many legal gun owners (those who legaly own or have CCW) have used their legally owned weapons to kill someone? I believe you make a point about those not legally allowed to own guns so I just asked the question"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #161 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow many LEGAL guns owners have? Have what? I guess I'll have to ask billvon what you mean. How many legal gun owners (those who legaly own or have CCW) have used their legally owned weapons to kill someone? I believe you make a point about those not legally allowed to own guns so I just asked the question Go look it up if you're interested, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #162 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote How many LEGAL guns owners have? Have what? I guess I'll have to ask billvon what you mean. How many legal gun owners (those who legaly own or have CCW) have used their legally owned weapons to kill someone? I believe you make a point about those not legally allowed to own guns so I just asked the question Go look it up if you're interested, then. OK, I understand"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #163 August 6, 2008 So, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #164 August 6, 2008 QuoteSo, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions? Which assertion would that be? All I've done is ask mnealtx to PROVE his claim.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #165 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote So, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions? Which assertion would that be? All I've done is ask mnealtx to PROVE his claim. and you expect to have your position taken seriously on this topic? You are for total gun control/ban despite what you post here.Sorry I "bothered" you with simple questions "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #166 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote So, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions? Which assertion would that be? All I've done is ask mnealtx to PROVE his claim. and you expect to have your position taken seriously on this topic? You are for total gun control/ban despite what you post here.Sorry I "bothered" you with simple questions So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #167 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote So, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions? Which assertion would that be? All I've done is ask mnealtx to PROVE his claim. and you expect to have your position taken seriously on this topic? You are for total gun control/ban despite what you post here.Sorry I "bothered" you with simple questions So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? This topic with your assertions through out this site and different threads are easy to find. And no, you have never directly argued for a total gun ban but, with all you claim and "assert" there can be no other conclusion (for me anyway) So I just read and enjoy your posts on the topic"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #168 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote So, since you avoided the last question let me ask this one. Where/what is your control group for your assertions? Which assertion would that be? All I've done is ask mnealtx to PROVE his claim. and you expect to have your position taken seriously on this topic? You are for total gun control/ban despite what you post here.Sorry I "bothered" you with simple questions So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? This topic with your assertions through out this site and different threads are easy to find. So find it, then, if it's so easy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #169 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Well... 80,000,000 gun owners 300,000,000 guns 30,000 annual gun-related deaths which includes 15,000 suicides and also justifiable homicides You do the math. I'd say that if we're having only those deaths, with all those guns and gun owners, someone must be behaving awfully fucking well. Ignorance of statistics is no excuse. Your control group is ??????? How many non gun owners shot people? How many people were shot dead without guns being involved? Come back when you have a valid case. Maybe you can prove your point by showing us the proof that soooo many CWL holders are shooting people with little or no restraint. Please link to a post where I claimed any such thing, STRAWMAN I don't have to prove claims that YOU make on my behalf. We'll wait. You'll wait a long time since your argument is just a strawman. My point is that mnealtx has not proved his claim. I don't need to disprove it, he needs to prove it Funny now, when the numbers don't say what you want, you go back to your control group bullshit. I've posted the numbers before - find them and disprove it yourself.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #170 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAND given the fact that concealed carry permit owners are, on average, MORE law-abiding than the police, Which has NOTHING to do with making a bona-fide effort to prevent mentally unstable people from getting firearms. It can be done - are YOU willing to have those same criteria used against other rights? QuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? Yes, I do - personal experience, discussion with other people, as well as anecdotal evidence from police reports and news stories - what proof do YOU have? The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". I take it that you have no actual valid proof. AND I don't need to prove you wrong. YOU made the claim, YOU need to prove that your claim is correct. The plural of "bullshit" is still "bullshit" - why don't you prove out your claim that lawyers and politicians make a difference in crime rates in washington dc, first. Unlike yours, there's plenty of information from law enforcement statistics to prove MY claim.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #171 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? .... You'll wait a long time since your argument is just a strawman. My point is that mnealtx has not proved his claim. I don't need to disprove it, he needs to prove it Funny now, when the numbers don't say what you want, you go back to your control group bullshit. I've posted the numbers before - find them and disprove it yourself. Please provide a link to a post of yours that proves that CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #172 August 6, 2008 Quote The plural of "bullshit" is still "bullshit" - why don't you prove out your claim that lawyers and politicians make a difference in crime rates in washington dc, first. . We all have seen through that STRAWMAN by now, Mike. Every time you are challenged to find a single post where I claimed that, you go off on another tangent because you KNOW I never made such a claim. Quote Unlike yours, there's plenty of information from law enforcement statistics to prove MY claim. Well, it should be EASY for you to post a link then. A link to data that PROVES CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #173 August 6, 2008 Quote So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? If the straw fits... This is a case where the absence of contrary data tends to support the assertion. The Brady fucks have claimed that as each state approved a CCW shall issue program, that there would be Wild West shootouts in the street. Every time, never happened. Had it, they'd have actual proof to argue when the next state debated CCW. There's also no shortage of police chiefs who admit that the transition was smooth and clean, much more so then they expected. now back to the boring semantical battle between kallend and rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #174 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? If the straw fits... This is a case where the absence of contrary data tends to support the assertion. . You need a lesson in logic there, Chief. Anyhow, you and Mike carry on with the strawman arguments, and rush with the non-sequiturs; I'm off on vacation and won't be back for a while.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #175 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? .... You'll wait a long time since your argument is just a strawman. My point is that mnealtx has not proved his claim. I don't need to disprove it, he needs to prove it Funny now, when the numbers don't say what you want, you go back to your control group bullshit. I've posted the numbers before - find them and disprove it yourself. Please provide a link to a post of yours that proves that CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon." You should know, you replied to it above. Don't like the (true) answer? Tough.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,146 #172 August 6, 2008 Quote The plural of "bullshit" is still "bullshit" - why don't you prove out your claim that lawyers and politicians make a difference in crime rates in washington dc, first. . We all have seen through that STRAWMAN by now, Mike. Every time you are challenged to find a single post where I claimed that, you go off on another tangent because you KNOW I never made such a claim. Quote Unlike yours, there's plenty of information from law enforcement statistics to prove MY claim. Well, it should be EASY for you to post a link then. A link to data that PROVES CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #173 August 6, 2008 Quote So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? If the straw fits... This is a case where the absence of contrary data tends to support the assertion. The Brady fucks have claimed that as each state approved a CCW shall issue program, that there would be Wild West shootouts in the street. Every time, never happened. Had it, they'd have actual proof to argue when the next state debated CCW. There's also no shortage of police chiefs who admit that the transition was smooth and clean, much more so then they expected. now back to the boring semantical battle between kallend and rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #174 August 6, 2008 Quote Quote So you can't find this "assertion" that you claim, then? Now, please link to any post where I have argued for a total gun ban, or is that another STRAWMAN? If the straw fits... This is a case where the absence of contrary data tends to support the assertion. . You need a lesson in logic there, Chief. Anyhow, you and Mike carry on with the strawman arguments, and rush with the non-sequiturs; I'm off on vacation and won't be back for a while.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #175 August 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote and tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon. You have proof of that statement? .... You'll wait a long time since your argument is just a strawman. My point is that mnealtx has not proved his claim. I don't need to disprove it, he needs to prove it Funny now, when the numbers don't say what you want, you go back to your control group bullshit. I've posted the numbers before - find them and disprove it yourself. Please provide a link to a post of yours that proves that CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon." You should know, you replied to it above. Don't like the (true) answer? Tough.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
