kallend 2,108 #276 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuote And would you support holding the Dr's harmless in case someone "approved" went nuts? Because if not then not many Dr's would take that kind of risk. None would participate. Not terribly unlike when guidelines were set up for smaller women to get their airbags turned off. Few mechanics wanted any part of it. Quote My version is A LOT less intrusive and only 'reports' those that could be an issue. Anyone that has been through a class III medical knows that it is a waste of time anyway. As you know, these sorts of steps are really just about making gun ownership as inconvenient and expensive as possible. Every time some looney like Cho, Zamora or Kazmierczak massacres a bunch of people it gives gun owners in general a "black eye" I'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #277 September 6, 2008 QuoteI'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile. Permit CCWs on campus. Permit teachers to carry. Actually uphold current laws and processes before adding more. These are all improvements that maintain rights. If you want your side to be taken seriously, well, it's too late for that. Too many times they have openly explained their plans to incrementally achieve their goal of total prohibition, cut by cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #278 September 6, 2008 QuoteEvery time some looney like Cho, Zamora or Kazmierczak massacres a bunch of people it gives gun owners in general a "black eye" Yes, but knee jerk "solutions" don't solve the problem...As you have already stated. QuoteINDEED - the system is not doing the job it's supposed to do. THAT is my issue. So you admit that the current rules don't work...But you are willing to just add to them? QuoteI'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile. And I am surprised at how fast you folks are willing to add steps that have been proven not to work in the past just to feel like you are doing something. Ya know....This reminds me of the old WL issue. You were vehemently opposed to rules there in favor of education. Why are you so willing to impose them here?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #279 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteEvery time some looney like Cho, Zamora or Kazmierczak massacres a bunch of people it gives gun owners in general a "black eye" Yes, but knee jerk "solutions" don't solve the problem...As you have already stated. QuoteINDEED - the system is not doing the job it's supposed to do. THAT is my issue. So you admit that the current rules don't work...But you are willing to just add to them? QuoteI'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile. And I am surprised at how fast you folks are willing to add steps that have been proven not to work in the past just to feel like you are doing something. Ya know....This reminds me of the old WL issue. You were vehemently opposed to rules there in favor of education. Why are you so willing to impose them here? Because people overloading themselves don't take 32 innocents with them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #280 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteI'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile. Permit CCWs on campus. Wouldn't have stopped Cho, Zamora or Kaz. Zamora got 2 armed cops, remember. Quote Permit teachers to carry. Ditto. Quote Actually uphold current laws and processes before adding more. . Processes that are so emasculated as to be useless.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #281 September 6, 2008 QuoteWouldn't have stopped Cho, Zamora or Kaz. Zamora got 2 armed cops, remember. You KNOW that? Or are you guessing? QuoteProcesses that are so emasculated as to be useless. So why just add new ones?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #282 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteWouldn't have stopped Cho, Zamora or Kaz. Zamora got 2 armed cops, remember. You KNOW that? Or are you guessing? ? I KNOW that Zamora killed one armed cop and wounded another. On the other hand six people would be alive now if Zamora, a person with serious mental illness, hadn't had access to guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #283 September 6, 2008 QuoteI KNOW that Zamora killed one armed cop and wounded another. On the other hand six people would be alive now if Zamora, a person with serious mental illness, hadn't had access to guns. So you are guessing that an armed civilian would not have helped. You are also guessing that Zamora would not have done something else like built a bomb, or went on a stabbing spree. Also you never answered my question...so I will ask it again. Would you support holding the Dr's harmless in case someone "approved" went nuts?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #284 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteI KNOW that Zamora killed one armed cop and wounded another. On the other hand six people would be alive now if Zamora, a person with serious mental illness, hadn't had access to guns. So you are guessing that an armed civilian would not have helped. You are also guessing that Zamora would not have done something else like built a bomb, or went on a stabbing spree. Yes, those stabbing sprees - read about them all the time. 32 people killed in stabbing spree... Get real, Ron.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #285 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Admittedly no solution is perfect, but even an improvement would be worthwhile. Permit CCWs on campus. Wouldn't have stopped Cho, Zamora or Kaz. Zamora got 2 armed cops, remember. You want guarantees in life? Hardly appropriate for a skydiver. We all know that bad shit can happen, even when no one has made a mistake. All you can do is push the odds as far in your favor as possible, without killing the sport (or in the greater case, civil rights). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #286 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe're not discussing unconstitutional laws, we're discussing LOOPHOLES in laws that have already passed constitutional muster, and poor or non-existent implementation of those laws. Loopholes that you and your ilk defend diligently because closing them might involve a slight inconvenience to you.. As far as I know, Cho obtained his guns from licensed dealers, NOT from private sellers, so he did NOT "slip through a loophole," at least, not the so-called "gun show loophole." That term applies to the lack of a requirement that private sales pass a background check. Cho passed background check-adge because his mental impairments were not such that they got him put on any no-buy list. . Thank you for making my point in such a proofread way. A homicidal maniac PASSED the current background check, because it is USELESS as currently implemented. Thanks again for making the point. He did not pass through the LOOPHOLE that you anti-gunners are always talking about, i.e. he did not "get around" background checks -- he didn't have the information that might have precluded him from buying a gun from a dealer included in the stuff that the NICS check sends back. He didn't go and buy from an "unlicensed dealer" (itself an oxymoron that antis use all the time). If you have a problem with the fact that his mental health records were not put into the database to keep him from getting a gun legally, you must answer two questions: 1) Do you really support everyone's private mental health records going on file as soon as their doctor (or anyone qualified to make a determination) decides whether they're "sane" or not? (Wouldn't that be a BIT worse than "warrantless wiretapping" that will probably never in your life eavesdrop on you, anyway?!) 2) Was Cho adjudicated mentally defective, and/or involuntarily committed in his past? That would made the difference in whether he was made ineligible or not. Then there's always the question of whether he would or could have then gotten a gun by theft, or black market. Let's see, do you honestly believe that any black market can ever be eradicated? And if he could not get any gun, who says he wouldn't have gone down to the local mall-ninja store, or online to Museum Replicas, and gotten himself a sword? Could he not kill 5, 10, 20 people if he just walked into a busy food court at the mall and started hacking with a Katana or a broadsword? What about a few bottles of gasoline and some matches?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #287 September 6, 2008 QuoteThank you for making my point in such a proofread way. A homicidal maniac PASSED the current background check, because it is USELESS as currently implemented. Thanks again for making the point. So useless that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of prohibited would-be buyers were stopped from buying guns under Clinton's administration. All of about THREE of them ever faced prosecution for the federal felony of attempting to purchase a firearm as a prohibited felon. Don't talk to us about how "useless" the background check supposedly is when it proved itself "useful" and then the CRIMINALS it ferreted out got LET GO.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #288 September 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote A homicidal maniac PASSED the current background check, because it is USELESS as currently implemented. How should the background check be implemented then? More thoroughly. Yes, by all means. Everybody, cough up your private medical and mental health records. We're giving them to the GOVERNMENT for SAFE-KEEPING. (The same government that has run Fannie Mae, the Iraq War, Social Security, the FDA, the FAA, and FEMA so very very well... Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #289 September 6, 2008 Quote Of course kallend can easily dispel all this guessing about his position, just be being forthright for once, and spelling out exactly what he means. But I'm betting that he just won't do it. Careful who you bet against around here. Kallend is liable to demand that you make your loss payable to the ACLU! Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #290 September 6, 2008 Quote I agree with billvon's assessment in the other current thread. Medical doctor gives simply a yes/no. Less intrusive than a Class III airman medical. You don't have a constitutional right to fly. Let us know when you're ready to take your physical/psychological exam to get your VOTING LICENSE, Kallend. And if your medical doctor happens to be a member of the AMA, which already is on record avowing that guns are a "public health menace" and that guns are just too dangerous to keep in any home with children, and increase your likelihood of getting shot to death... then I guess your gun- and voting-rights are fucked. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #291 September 6, 2008 QuoteEvery time some looney like Cho, Zamora or Kazmierczak massacres a bunch of people it gives gun owners in general a "black eye" I'm surprised at how little interest you folks have in making even the smallest attempt to do something about it. Honestly, I don't think I've ever met someone more willing than you to ignore statements that refute his thesis. Did you miss the part where the NRA actually SUPPORTED taking care of the "loophole" that enabled Cho to get his gun? Takes the wind right the fuck out of your bullshit-sail, there. But it won't surprise me if you ignore that I said this, the same way you ignored having it pointed out to you that the NRA worked to close the "Cho loophole."Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #292 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteSo you are guessing that an armed civilian would not have helped. You are also guessing that Zamora would not have done something else like built a bomb, or went on a stabbing spree. Yes, those stabbing sprees - read about them all the time. 32 people killed in stabbing spree... Get real, Ron. AH, so you respond to the comment about STABBING, but the BOMB idea... you didn't feel like taking that one on. Well, at least we know why. YOU DON'T HAVE A FUCKING THING THAT CAN REFUTE IT. Here, chew on this for a while. I guess no one's dangerous unless he has a gun, right? If that doesn't thrill you, maybe you just need to read about something even more devastating.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #293 September 6, 2008 Seven consecutive rants! Sorry you were so late to the party, the fun's over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #294 September 6, 2008 The fun goes where I go. Besides, seven rants for seven posts. It helps keep it organized. Are you offended or something? Nice, substantive post, by the way. Really cut to the heart of my argument that absent guns, people can still kill quite a number of others. Gee, you sure did a job on that one. Wow, I'm reeling from your onslaught of logic! ...Oh, wait a minute. All you did was shoot back some wit-less one-liner. Nevermind. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #295 September 6, 2008 QuoteYes, those stabbing sprees - read about them all the time. 32 people killed in stabbing spree... Get real, Ron. Unlike your crystal ball that lets you "know" so much? Get real, John. I expect more from a guy that claims to have a PhD. Here is a guy that killed 7. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/06/08/japan.stabbing.spree/index.html You are also guessing that Zamora would not have done something else like built a bomb, or went on a stabbing spree. Also you never answered my question...so I will ask it again a third time. Would you support holding the Dr's harmless in case someone "approved" went nuts?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #296 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteYes, those stabbing sprees - read about them all the time. 32 people killed in stabbing spree... Get real, Ron. Unlike your crystal ball that lets you "know" so much? Get real, John. I expect more from a guy that claims to have a PhD. Here is a guy that killed 7. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/06/08/japan.stabbing.spree/index.html You are also guessing that Zamora would not have done something else like built a bomb, or went on a stabbing spree. Also you never answered my question...so I will ask it again a third time. Would you support holding the Dr's harmless in case someone "approved" went nuts? Depends on circumstances. If it was a case of bribery to get the approval, definitely NOT.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #297 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteTell us how you know which person will commit a crime next Am I going to commit a crime? Does it bother you that I own what you think are assault rifles? Does it make you lose sleep? Does it make you nervous? Would you prefer that I be banned from owning such weapons? I know nothing about you except that you CLAIM that your name is Randall, and the persona you project on the internet. For all I know you are actually a 9 year old girl. Ok that is a personal attack since you have met me many times in person. So get your head out of your ass and act like a man, if that is at all possible. Hey you're right, I do know something else about you. You are the guy who claimed I was a liar when I said I was on a skydiving team with Gomez and Rainbo. Then when I provided proof, you wouldn't apologize. Now what was that about acting like a man?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #298 September 7, 2008 It is something they both vehemently deny. and once again, you are completely ignoring the topic of the thread, and making posts about other posters. hmmmm can't stick to rules eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #299 September 7, 2008 Quote It is something they both vehemently deny. ? No they don't. And our 16-way team photo (team 102) is there on Omniskore for all to see (copy attached), with all three of us clearly shown. Quote and once again, you are completely ignoring the topic of the thread, and making posts about other posters. That's very funny, considering that (1) you did ask, and (2) you should try reading what you posted about me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #300 October 9, 2008 www.nwcn.com/statenews/oregon/stories/NW_100808ORN_longview_shooter_LJ.f1fb24e1.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
