Yet another looney with a gun

[mnealtx 0]

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The plural of "bullshit" is still "bullshit" - why don't you prove out your claim that lawyers and politicians make a difference in crime rates in washington dc, first. .

We all have seen through that STRAWMAN by now, Mike. Every time you are challenged to find a single post where I claimed that, you go off on another tangent because you KNOW I never made such a claim.

I've posted the link to your strawman about how crime is somehow *different* in washington dc due to the lawyers and politicians often enough, and I'll bring it up any time you start demanding people provide proof that you yourself won't give.

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Unlike yours, there's plenty of information from law enforcement statistics to prove MY claim.

Well, it should be EASY for you to post a link then. A link to data that PROVES CCW holders "tend to avoid situations where they may have to use their weapon."

Take a CCW course and find out for yourself.

Only a psychopath looks forward to hurting someone else - someone that would be weeded out in the Texas CCW qualifications that you say say "work so well" - QED.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Leapinglizardto 0]

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How many non gun owners shot people? How many people were shot dead without guns being involved?

Oh I see, your gun-control position, is so convoluted and lacking in substantial evidence of it's validity, that you skirt around the edges dancing with semantics as the lead partner on the dance floor!
Waltzing to 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' in 3/4 time.
So let's fix that for ya and then answer it. M'kay, come on it'll be fun & enlightening I promise! How many non gun owners shot killed people? How many people were shot stabbed, beaten, plowed-down w/ a motor vehicle, burnt alive by arson, strangled, smothered, or drowned by force...
dead without guns being involved?

P L E N T Y

So, pick the year, decade, century, whatever you would like statistics on and I will be more than happy to gather those for you.
In the mean time, let's completely outlaw:
*Knives, razors, axes, saws, ice picks, stakes, spears, arrows, forks, spoons, chopsticks, & any & every object on the planet, that is or can be sharpened enough to pierce human skin or organs. This or course includes scalpals & other medical instruments, so no more life saving surgeries or ERs.
*Blunt objects
Baseball bats, tire irons, 2X4's & all other lumber supplies, hammers, shovels, rakes, hoes, posts, rods, rails, flashllights, rocks, sticks, and so on and so forth.
*Automobiles
* Fire & electricity
*Cords, ropes, cables, bare hands, vines, linens, clothing, plastic, nylon thread, fishing line, fabric...and so on...
*Water
*Medication
Then we just wait a few weeks & you can request (post-humous) & I can gather (post-humous) the statistics for:
how many of us were killed by starvation, de-hydration, infection or injury, exposure to the elements...
M'kay?

It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak

[Ron 10]

Nothing ever seems to change.

You remember the CDC said that they could find no link between gun bans and a reduction in crime?

If guns create danger....Then why have there been killings in "Gun Free" zones, but not ONE at a gun show?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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You remember the CDC said that they could find no link between gun bans and a reduction in crime? If guns create danger....Then why have there been killings in "Gun Free" zones, but not ONE at a gun show?

Excellent point.

A quick quiz for the gun-o-phobes:

How many mass murders have been committed at locations filled with good guys with guns, like police stations, or Marine Corps combat bases? Uh-huh. I didn't think so.

Now compare that number, to the incidents of mass murderers killing people in so-called "gun-free" zones, like schools, businesses and churches. Uh-huh. I thought so.

So where are you more safe? At a school where any loony with a gun can walk in and kill at will, unopposed? Or at a police station where any attacker will be quickly met with opposing gunfire? Uh-huh. I thought so.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Aside from that 37 other passengers of his 'peers' = 3 times a jury of 12 'peers' + one alternate, save the tax payer dollars AND The all too frightening & real possiblity that this depraived lunatic, could very well 'walk' on the brutal savage murder charge

He could, which in my opinion would lead to reform. Still, in my opinion, would not make a good case to shoot somebody.

As to my earlier statement about more guns leading to more deaths. Just look at guns in circulation and gun deaths and compare the US to other Western countries.

I'll say again that I could care less about the gun debate in the US. For all I care you let 6 year old kids walk around with guns, it simply just doesn't affect me in any way.

I am however happy that I live in a country where a majority of people do not feel the constant desire to be armed, nor display some of the desire to kill and bloodlust as many do on these forums.

I agree that in this case, a gun could have made for a better outcome. That it possibly could have saved the victim. However, it also could have ended with bystanders, fellow travellers getting killed. I know that pretty much all gun owners on this site claim to be outstanding marksmen, have trained estensively in killing people in close chaotic quarters etc, but I don't think that is true for the average gun owner out there.

In the end, this is an exceptionally rare case. I don't feel the need to arm myself for something that is extremely rare, the same way I don't stay indoors because on very rare occasions fish fall from the sky.

[JohnRich 4]

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As to my earlier statement about more guns leading to more deaths. Just look at guns in circulation and gun deaths and compare the US to other Western countries

Wrong again.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

If you say so JR.

There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US.

[mnealtx 0]

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If you say so JR.

There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US.

It's not a 'gun' problem - it's a criminal problem. The anti's arguments are like trying to prove that ice cream causes obesity - it *does*, but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It's not a 'gun' problem - it's a criminal problem. The anti's arguments are like trying to prove that ice cream causes obesity - it *does*, but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

Eaxctly!!!!!!! So, if we want to reduce obesity, obviously we need to dramatically increase the amount of ice cream and fatty foods available

[mnealtx 0]

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It's not a 'gun' problem - it's a criminal problem. The anti's arguments are like trying to prove that ice cream causes obesity - it *does*, but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

Eaxctly!!!!!!! So, if we want to reduce obesity, obviously we need to dramatically increase the amount of ice cream and fatty foods available

Absolutely.

Or, y'know....quit trying to blame the obesity on the mere existence of ice cream.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you say so JR.

There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US.

so when will you explain why the gun related death rate isn't rising as the number of guns continues to rise?

Your hypothesis falls apart.

[Amazon 7]

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but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

A civilized society would ban neckholes.

[mnealtx 0]

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but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

A civilized society would ban neckholes.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnDeere 0]

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How many non gun owners shot people? How many people were shot dead without guns being involved?

Oh I see, your gun-control position, is so convoluted and lacking in substantial evidence of it's validity, that you skirt around the edges dancing with semantics as the lead partner on the dance floor!
Waltzing to 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' in 3/4 time.

So let's fix that for ya and then answer it. M'kay, come on it'll be fun & enlightening I promise!
How many non gun owners shot killed people? How many people were shot stabbed, beaten, plowed-down w/ a motor vehicle, burnt alive by arson, strangled, smothered, or drowned by force...
dead without guns being involved?

P L E N T Y

So, pick the year, decade, century, whatever you would like statistics on and I will be more than happy to gather those for you.

In the mean time, let's completely outlaw:

*Knives, razors, axes, saws, ice picks, stakes, spears, arrows, forks, spoons, chopsticks, & any & every object on the planet, that is or can be sharpened enough to pierce human skin or organs. This or course includes scalpals & other medical instruments, so no more life saving surgeries or ERs.

*Blunt objects
Baseball bats, tire irons, 2X4's & all other lumber supplies, hammers, shovels, rakes, hoes, posts, rods, rails, flashllights, rocks, sticks, and so on and so forth.

*Automobiles

* Fire & electricity

*Cords, ropes, cables, bare hands, vines, linens, clothing, plastic, nylon thread, fishing line, fabric...and so on...

*Water

*Medication

Then we just wait a few weeks & you can request (post-humous) & I can gather (post-humous) the statistics for:
how many of us were killed by starvation, de-hydration, infection or injury, exposure to the elements...

M'kay?

If only the liberals had it there way! We would be cave men

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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so when will you explain why the gun related death rate isn't rising as the number of guns continues to rise?

My original statement was poorly worded, but further explained in a subsequent post.

Gun related deaths in the US are higher than most if not all other western countries.

[Leapinglizardto 0]

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but a PERSON has to shovel it down their neckhole to do it.

A civilized society would ban neckholes.

Thanks amazon I needed that!

It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak

[Leapinglizardto 0]

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If only the *majority* liberals had it there way! We would be cave men

ROTFLMFAO!
But... cave men without the cave, rocks are blunt objects & can be used as deadly weapons... so no cave dwelling we have to live out in the open constantly exposed to all the elements. Rocks including those large enough to live in are illegal & banned!

It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak

[millertime24 8]

Apperantly you havent seen the modern cave man.

Muff #5048

[kelpdiver 2]

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so when will you explain why the gun related death rate isn't rising as the number of guns continues to rise?

My original statement was poorly worded, but further explained in a subsequent post.

Gun related deaths in the US are higher than most if not all other western countries.

Perhaps, but your assertion was that this was due to the supply of guns, rather than the supply of criminals. This was not poorly worded - it was your argument. That if we remove a portion of the guns, we'd be better off. This is false, esp if the only portion removed would be from the law abiding portion of society.

[Ron 10]

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There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US

You could also say that there are few western civilizations with the population of the US.

You could also say that there are few western civilizations with the population density of the US.

You could also say that there are few western civilizations with the criminal element that the US has.

There are MANY more factors than just number of guns.

For example, the US has more people below poverty level than Canada has total.

A friend from Norway and I were discussing this....Norway's total population is less than NYC.

So there are many more factors than brought up.

Blaming guns for gun violence is like blaming spoons for fat people.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rushmc 23]

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If you say so JR.

There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US.

AND, as he posted, it appears that more mass murders (with guns just to clarify) happen in gun free zones. Go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Holy crap!!! How the hell are ya, Ron?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

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There are few western civilizations with as many gun related deaths as the US.

First of all, with that statement, above, you're not even factoring out the population differences. The fact that America has 300 million people, far more than most other nations to which you are comparing it, means that even if the RATE is the same, it'll have more total deaths. So the fact that you aren't even thinking in those terms, shows that you don't know what the heck you're doing with this topic.

And second, by saying "few", you admit that there ARE other "western" civilizations with as many gun deaths, and therefore that's also an admission that America's gun laws are not the only variable factor responsible for your incorrect belief.

So, in summary, you're wrong on two counts:
1) Using total deaths instead of rates, and;
2) Ignoring exceptions to your supposed correlation.

Tsk tsk.

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Message #190: Gun related deaths in the US are higher than most if not all other western countries.

There you go again. Which is it: Most? Or all? Your own statements demonstrate that you haven't even bothered to do the research to find out. It can only be one or the other, and you don't even know. So you just claim both! Ha!

Every time you make such statements, you reveal your ignorance of the facts on this topic.

[birdlike 0]

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You remember the CDC said that they could find no link between gun bans and a reduction in crime? If guns create danger....Then why have there been killings in "Gun Free" zones, but not ONE at a gun show?

Excellent point.

A quick quiz for the gun-o-phobes:

How many mass murders have been committed at locations filled with good guys with guns, like police stations, or Marine Corps combat bases? Uh-huh. I didn't think so.

Now compare that number, to the incidents of mass murderers killing people in so-called "gun-free" zones, like schools, businesses and churches. Uh-huh. I thought so.

So where are you more safe? At a school where any loony with a gun can walk in and kill at will, unopposed? Or at a police station where any attacker will be quickly met with opposing gunfire? Uh-huh. I thought so.

There has got to be some lesson that we are supposed to take from the fact that as many times as these questions have been put to anti-gunners, they show absolutely zero sign of either listening, comprehending, or conceding this most unassailable point.

Tells you something about the huge void in them that should be filled with intellectual honesty.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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As to my earlier statement about more guns leading to more deaths. Just look at guns in circulation and gun deaths and compare the US to other Western countries.

Look at countries with gun bans. Are guns gone from them? Hardly.

In fact, in England, not only has violent crime skyrocketed according to many reports (many of them from British newspapers), but so has gun ownership--which is no longer allowed among civilians, but the jump in gun ownership is not among the good guys, it's among the criminals.

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I am however happy that I live in a country where a majority of people do not feel the constant desire to be armed, nor display some of the desire to kill and bloodlust as many do on these forums.

You haven't read the articles that say that carrying KNIVES is becoming a rampant problem in England? (Despite, um, the laws that prohibit people from carrying knives, I would add.) I don't think there is any of this absence of "bloodlust" or criminality or violent tendencies in England. Where exactly are you, anyway, that you say you live in a country that doesn't have violence, and thus has no need for armed self defense?

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I agree that in this case, a gun could have made for a better outcome. That it possibly could have saved the victim. However, it also could have ended with bystanders, fellow travellers getting killed.

Anti-gunners allllways talk about all the innocent bystanders who will be shot and killed when anyone uses a concealed handgun for self defense. WHERE ARE THE REPORTS, if you please?

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I know that pretty much all gun owners on this site claim to be outstanding marksmen, have trained estensively in killing people in close chaotic quarters etc, but I don't think that is true for the average gun owner out there.

Does one have to be S.W.A.T.-team trained in order to be able to use a snubby .38 carried in her purse to save herself from rape and strangulation by a trio that follows her to her car in a deserted parking lot?

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In the end, this is an exceptionally rare case. I don't feel the need to arm myself for something that is extremely rare, the same way I don't stay indoors because on very rare occasions fish fall from the sky.

It would be nice if you were honest enough to compare the possible need of a firearm to something REAL, like the possible need of a smoke alarm, fire extinguisher, or seat belt.

I am not about to give up my smoke alarm just because of how exceedingly rare house fires are. Likewise, I have driven for the better part of 21 years, and have never had cause for a seat belt to save me from serious injury. I guess I really don't need 'em anymore. Right?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire