kbordson 8 #26 July 29, 2008 QuoteBlows my mind that the abortion debate really doesn't start and end that simply. My body, my decision, your body, your decision. Exactly. That statement is why I HATE the "what would you do?" question. My decisions might not be the ones that she would make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #27 July 29, 2008 Since I've been exposed to people with DS, there is absolutely NO WAY I'd be in favor of aborting the fetus. One of the most loving and caring people I've ever met has DS - how could you possibly think that's worth aborting? (not directed at you kb). If you are capable of providing a good, loving home for the child, and you decide to abort - IMO it's for purely selfish (and probably vain) reasons, no matter how people may try and mask it as otherwise. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #28 July 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNO - I would not want to abort the pregnancy. Seems mean and cruel. Interesting. I think it would be mean and cruel to knowingly have a child with DS. That because you judge "quality of life" from a very myopic point of view Me and the 55% of voters, apparently. Yes that is true, i would hazzard to saythat the vast majority of people here have had no real contact with anyone that has Trisomy 21. and therefore their votes are kinda wasted I do. My cousin has it. Still, when my wife was pregnant, we had the talk and came to the conclusion that it would be best to abort. Luckily, we didn't have to._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #29 July 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote I do. My cousin has it. Still, when my wife was pregnant, we had the talk and came to the conclusion that it would be best to abort. Luckily, we didn't have to. Or chose to?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #30 July 29, 2008 QuoteOr chose to? Yes, it is a choice. Don't confuse my end use of the word "need" as a psychological blanket. We were aware of the decision we were making._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #31 July 29, 2008 QuoteNO - I would not want to abort the pregnancy. Seems mean and cruel. This response begs the question, "Is it 'mean and cruel' only because the baby has Down Syndrome, or would it be mean and cruel to abort a baby period?" Because it seems that if it's the former, then special consideration, charity, sympathy, whatever is being given to a Down Syndrome baby but it's ok to deny that to a normal baby! Me, I think I would give serious thought to aborting the child, and I would feel the requisite pangs and pain and emotional grief but I have long since recognized that the world is a harsh place and we are put into positions to have to make tough choices that sometimes make us feel bad about what we had to do. I don't mean that to be used as a justification for just doing any old thing one feels like (for example outright murder, robbery, rape, etc.). But there is truth to the idea that sometimes we make decisions that we just have to live with even though we didn't like having to make them. Sometimes we even end up feeling like we have to pay penance for the rest of our lives, in our own minds if nowhere else, for what we chose.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #32 July 29, 2008 Quote Well, that's certainly the other side of the coin, which makes it difficult. I lean towards thinking the individual in question would rather have lived a Down's life over no life at all. But that may be just silly sentiment talking. I think it is (silly sentiment talking), because no one can really fathom oblivion--never having lived. It's paradoxical to contemplate what someone who was not given the chance to live "would think."Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,557 #33 July 29, 2008 Abortion is essentially a selfish act. A certain amount of selfishness is essential for individual survival -- it brings us boundaries, taking care of our families, and jumping out of the way of oncoming traffic. So I guess I'd have to say that aborting a DS fetus because I, as a parent, don't think I could handle it is facing the issue head-on. Saying I'm doing it for the child is BS. As others have said, we generally DS people as more willing to see the bright side of things. Of course, other congenital disabilities have other problems, and can impact quality of life in more direct ways (e.g. pain and disability without the cognitive impairment that can dull awareness). Would I do it for an otherwise-wanted pregnancy, simply because of the DS? Nope, most likely not. But there are other reasons I would. I honestly don't think that first-trimester abortion is murder, and I think that the life and health of the mother trumps that of the fetus. Among other things, children that are never born are exactly that -- never born. It's kind of like imagining what life would be like if your mother had married someone else. That person never existed. Abortion is serious; it's the taking of potential human life, and should be considered as such. But the human life thing as a whole is a continuum -- preventing pregnancy in the first place also is the prevention of what could be. And sex is fun. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #34 July 29, 2008 Counter point Question Re Huntingtons..I'll make a different thread for it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #35 July 29, 2008 QuoteAbortion is essentially a selfish act. I agree, but, isn't having a child a selfish act as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 29 #36 July 29, 2008 no shit, there i was, thinking bill cole with all his self-righteous rubbish had finally disappeared The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #37 July 29, 2008 Quote .... My other daughter says that if she coul;d be sure to have a Downs baby, she would get pregnant today. .... What an abnormal statement! I doubt any potential mother would ask for that, I just do not believe it. Perhaps for you it is but, a DS child is NO toy, Bill Cole Now your little one is 10 y/o, will you be there in 10 or 15 yrs? I doubt that, too. *Shudder* dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #38 July 29, 2008 I think it is up to the woman and my job is only to support her no matter what her decision. If I were a woman I would abort. We do have some sort of definition of normal as most animals do. In the animal kingdom the weak or un-normal (I am tired and can’t find the right word) die sometimes at the hand of the parents. Life is though enough just dealing with what is expected. I don’t see a problem with that either, I don’t need to feel good about my self, and I don’t claim to know what god would want me to do. So yes I would do what serves my family and me best, as long as it was not passed the first trimester. Selfish like ALL OF USI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #39 July 30, 2008 Quote Quote .... My other daughter says that if she coul;d be sure to have a Downs baby, she would get pregnant today. .... What an abnormal statement! I doubt any potential mother would ask for that, I just do not believe it. Perhaps for you it is but, a DS child is NO toy, Bill Cole Now your little one is 10 y/o, will you be there in 10 or 15 yrs? I doubt that, too. *Shudder* Has anyone here read Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut? The omniscient narrator explains that mankind's problems arose because he had too big a brain. Thousands of years after the principal action of the book has taken place, mankind has evolved to be kind of like furred penguin-people with very small, simplistic brains. Pretty much like animals again, or monkeys of some sort. When I read these posts (quoted above) I was immediately reminded of that book. Kant said that you cannot do things that you would not will everyone to be free to do. So, if a person desired to have a child with a mental handicap (is it too unkind to call it a "mental inferiority"?), I suppose that should be expected to open the door to everyone else making the same choice. So imagine a world where eugenically we selected FOR Down Syndrome. (When the hell did we stop calling it "Down's Syndrome, anyway? We don't call it "Lou Gehrig Disease.") Would we not be essentially creating an "UN-super race"? DOWNgrading the overall quality of the human race? I am not making a judgment about the worthiness of the lives of people with Down Syndrome. But this is Speaker's Corner, yes? Can't I speak the plain truth that Down Syndrome is a FUCKUP of nature, not the way nature OUGHT to make babies? We may find conjoined twins fascinating, too, but does that mean we ought to try to make them happen?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #40 July 30, 2008 I think many people do see very young DS kids as "cute", and they really are. Problem is DS adults are not "cute". They'll either become a tremendous burden on the parents or a ward of the State. Fortunately for us there are people who have the compassion to handle the situation. I am not one of them. Tucked away all across this country are "homes" for these people staffed by compassionate individuals and funded by you and me. I've visited them and it's not pretty but they make the most of it. Where it really gets interesting is when Medicare gets involved and is tasked with "protecting" their rights. I could tell stories that would make you shake your head. As for the 10yo, sometimes I think it goes along the vein of getting a puppy. 10yo's think that way.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klingeme 1 #41 July 30, 2008 If you didn't know until the baby was born, would you kill it then? Why kill it earlier? edited to add If it is enough of a "Person" to realize it has a birth defect, how can we not call this a life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #42 July 30, 2008 A fungus is alive and a life form but we tend to kill them often. If every cell that eventually might become a human being is going to be considered life then jerking off is mass murder.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klingeme 1 #43 July 30, 2008 Jerking off is only half of what it takes to start a life. Maybe you need some sex ed. A woman expelling an egg every month is not killing a life. As soon as that sperm hits that egg and it starts replicating, that is a HUMAN life. I kill mosquitos and "fungus" but I don't kill humans at any stage in their development. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #44 July 30, 2008 My daughter Crystal would be thrilled beyond measure to have a Downs child. Christel, you again show that you don't know what you are talking about. A Downs child is the greatest blessing imaginable. I took 5 of my 6 grandchildren to a large restaurant yesterday, and bought them an all you could eat lunch. I had my hands full, and $58.00 later, I was so pleased to have done so. Lindsay sat beside me, and I kept her plate full. She only weighs 50 pounds, but eats like a horse. I don't know where she puts it. I doubt I will be alive in 10 more years, but there are others who will be glad to have her with them. I am glad you are not one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #45 July 30, 2008 Sure abortion is a selfish act. Who gave any woman the right to have her child slain? Those women who have had abortions are still mothers....but mothers of murdered children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hungarianchick 0 #46 July 30, 2008 QuoteI think many people do see very young DS kids as "cute", and they really are. Problem is DS adults are not "cute". They'll either become a tremendous burden on the parents or a ward of the State. Fortunately for us there are people who have the compassion to handle the situation. I am not one of them. Tucked away all across this country are "homes" for these people staffed by compassionate individuals and funded by you and me. I've visited them and it's not pretty but they make the most of it. Where it really gets interesting is when Medicare gets involved and is tasked with "protecting" their rights. I could tell stories that would make you shake your head. As for the 10yo, sometimes I think it goes along the vein of getting a puppy. 10yo's think that way. With all due respect, I beg to differ. I happen to be one of those "compassionate individuals". I've worked with people with disabilities most of my career. Most people with DS are their own guardian, or under the guardianship of family members, not "wards of the state". Many live independently, have jobs, and fulfilling social lives. Those homes that you mention are not "tucked away" but integrated into the community, with caring neighbors. At least that is how things are in the agency I work for. Don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of things to be done and it is a constant uphill battle against looming budget cuts. But you know what? This is the area I'd rather see my tax dollars going. As for whether I would abort a fetus with DS or not, I don't know. I'm not a mother, and I never will be one. You have to consider that there are many serious medical concerns that go along with DS. One of them is Alzheimer'z Disease. In the past, people with DS simply didn't live long enough for this problem to surface, because they died at a young age of heart disease. But thanks to the advances in medical science, they live longer lives and we see the beginning stages of dementia in literally every single one of them as early as their late thirties but definitely in their late forties, early fifties. I guess my point is that each case is unique, and each parent should be able to make their own decision about keeping the pregnancy or not. Edited to add: A person becomes a "Ward of State" if the legal guardian deceases or withdraws without appointing somebody else to oversee the person's affairs. In my 17 year career I've never seen this happen. "I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #47 July 30, 2008 Personally, I think your comment that a 10 yr old Downs is akin to Puppy is downright stupid. You are an insulting person to even think such a thing. Lindsay, is very much more a human being than you are, judging from your statements. She will NEVER be put in any " home" because there is more than enough people who would stand up and take care of her. We even have a bank account set up for her needs in the future. Please keep your insulting remarks to yourself. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klingeme 1 #48 July 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteInteresting. I think it would be mean and cruel to knowingly have a child with DS. My fetus, I would alert the media. If I were a woman, I believe I would never abort a pregnancy unless two doctors could convince me that continuing the gestation would kill us both. My s.o's fetus or any other woman?: her body, her decision, regardless of whatever the reason might be, Down diagnosis or whatever. Blows my mind that the abortion debate really doesn't start and end that simply. My body, my decision, your body, your decision. And men have no say in the decision as to if their child is "terminated" or not? Sounds fair. So much for "equal rights". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #49 July 30, 2008 Men should have a say....the baby is as much theirs as the woman's. If it lives, the man has to pay for it all through it's life. The man should definitely have a say in what happens to the child at any stage of its development or life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #50 July 30, 2008 Your remarks on children with DS ring very true; I realised that working at the Special Olympics once, but many people haven't quite got first hand experience like yourself. So it's good to hear about it. Ultimately it's the parents selfish decision in regards to their families future well-being. I think Wendy pretty much summed it up. p.s. Have you looked at your Armageddon-ometer recently? What does it say? Anything about Obama? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 2 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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nanook 1 #30 July 29, 2008 QuoteOr chose to? Yes, it is a choice. Don't confuse my end use of the word "need" as a psychological blanket. We were aware of the decision we were making._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #31 July 29, 2008 QuoteNO - I would not want to abort the pregnancy. Seems mean and cruel. This response begs the question, "Is it 'mean and cruel' only because the baby has Down Syndrome, or would it be mean and cruel to abort a baby period?" Because it seems that if it's the former, then special consideration, charity, sympathy, whatever is being given to a Down Syndrome baby but it's ok to deny that to a normal baby! Me, I think I would give serious thought to aborting the child, and I would feel the requisite pangs and pain and emotional grief but I have long since recognized that the world is a harsh place and we are put into positions to have to make tough choices that sometimes make us feel bad about what we had to do. I don't mean that to be used as a justification for just doing any old thing one feels like (for example outright murder, robbery, rape, etc.). But there is truth to the idea that sometimes we make decisions that we just have to live with even though we didn't like having to make them. Sometimes we even end up feeling like we have to pay penance for the rest of our lives, in our own minds if nowhere else, for what we chose.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #32 July 29, 2008 Quote Well, that's certainly the other side of the coin, which makes it difficult. I lean towards thinking the individual in question would rather have lived a Down's life over no life at all. But that may be just silly sentiment talking. I think it is (silly sentiment talking), because no one can really fathom oblivion--never having lived. It's paradoxical to contemplate what someone who was not given the chance to live "would think."Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,557 #33 July 29, 2008 Abortion is essentially a selfish act. A certain amount of selfishness is essential for individual survival -- it brings us boundaries, taking care of our families, and jumping out of the way of oncoming traffic. So I guess I'd have to say that aborting a DS fetus because I, as a parent, don't think I could handle it is facing the issue head-on. Saying I'm doing it for the child is BS. As others have said, we generally DS people as more willing to see the bright side of things. Of course, other congenital disabilities have other problems, and can impact quality of life in more direct ways (e.g. pain and disability without the cognitive impairment that can dull awareness). Would I do it for an otherwise-wanted pregnancy, simply because of the DS? Nope, most likely not. But there are other reasons I would. I honestly don't think that first-trimester abortion is murder, and I think that the life and health of the mother trumps that of the fetus. Among other things, children that are never born are exactly that -- never born. It's kind of like imagining what life would be like if your mother had married someone else. That person never existed. Abortion is serious; it's the taking of potential human life, and should be considered as such. But the human life thing as a whole is a continuum -- preventing pregnancy in the first place also is the prevention of what could be. And sex is fun. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #34 July 29, 2008 Counter point Question Re Huntingtons..I'll make a different thread for it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #35 July 29, 2008 QuoteAbortion is essentially a selfish act. I agree, but, isn't having a child a selfish act as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 29 #36 July 29, 2008 no shit, there i was, thinking bill cole with all his self-righteous rubbish had finally disappeared The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #37 July 29, 2008 Quote .... My other daughter says that if she coul;d be sure to have a Downs baby, she would get pregnant today. .... What an abnormal statement! I doubt any potential mother would ask for that, I just do not believe it. Perhaps for you it is but, a DS child is NO toy, Bill Cole Now your little one is 10 y/o, will you be there in 10 or 15 yrs? I doubt that, too. *Shudder* dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #38 July 29, 2008 I think it is up to the woman and my job is only to support her no matter what her decision. If I were a woman I would abort. We do have some sort of definition of normal as most animals do. In the animal kingdom the weak or un-normal (I am tired and can’t find the right word) die sometimes at the hand of the parents. Life is though enough just dealing with what is expected. I don’t see a problem with that either, I don’t need to feel good about my self, and I don’t claim to know what god would want me to do. So yes I would do what serves my family and me best, as long as it was not passed the first trimester. Selfish like ALL OF USI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #39 July 30, 2008 Quote Quote .... My other daughter says that if she coul;d be sure to have a Downs baby, she would get pregnant today. .... What an abnormal statement! I doubt any potential mother would ask for that, I just do not believe it. Perhaps for you it is but, a DS child is NO toy, Bill Cole Now your little one is 10 y/o, will you be there in 10 or 15 yrs? I doubt that, too. *Shudder* Has anyone here read Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut? The omniscient narrator explains that mankind's problems arose because he had too big a brain. Thousands of years after the principal action of the book has taken place, mankind has evolved to be kind of like furred penguin-people with very small, simplistic brains. Pretty much like animals again, or monkeys of some sort. When I read these posts (quoted above) I was immediately reminded of that book. Kant said that you cannot do things that you would not will everyone to be free to do. So, if a person desired to have a child with a mental handicap (is it too unkind to call it a "mental inferiority"?), I suppose that should be expected to open the door to everyone else making the same choice. So imagine a world where eugenically we selected FOR Down Syndrome. (When the hell did we stop calling it "Down's Syndrome, anyway? We don't call it "Lou Gehrig Disease.") Would we not be essentially creating an "UN-super race"? DOWNgrading the overall quality of the human race? I am not making a judgment about the worthiness of the lives of people with Down Syndrome. But this is Speaker's Corner, yes? Can't I speak the plain truth that Down Syndrome is a FUCKUP of nature, not the way nature OUGHT to make babies? We may find conjoined twins fascinating, too, but does that mean we ought to try to make them happen?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #40 July 30, 2008 I think many people do see very young DS kids as "cute", and they really are. Problem is DS adults are not "cute". They'll either become a tremendous burden on the parents or a ward of the State. Fortunately for us there are people who have the compassion to handle the situation. I am not one of them. Tucked away all across this country are "homes" for these people staffed by compassionate individuals and funded by you and me. I've visited them and it's not pretty but they make the most of it. Where it really gets interesting is when Medicare gets involved and is tasked with "protecting" their rights. I could tell stories that would make you shake your head. As for the 10yo, sometimes I think it goes along the vein of getting a puppy. 10yo's think that way.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #41 July 30, 2008 If you didn't know until the baby was born, would you kill it then? Why kill it earlier? edited to add If it is enough of a "Person" to realize it has a birth defect, how can we not call this a life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #42 July 30, 2008 A fungus is alive and a life form but we tend to kill them often. If every cell that eventually might become a human being is going to be considered life then jerking off is mass murder.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #43 July 30, 2008 Jerking off is only half of what it takes to start a life. Maybe you need some sex ed. A woman expelling an egg every month is not killing a life. As soon as that sperm hits that egg and it starts replicating, that is a HUMAN life. I kill mosquitos and "fungus" but I don't kill humans at any stage in their development. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #44 July 30, 2008 My daughter Crystal would be thrilled beyond measure to have a Downs child. Christel, you again show that you don't know what you are talking about. A Downs child is the greatest blessing imaginable. I took 5 of my 6 grandchildren to a large restaurant yesterday, and bought them an all you could eat lunch. I had my hands full, and $58.00 later, I was so pleased to have done so. Lindsay sat beside me, and I kept her plate full. She only weighs 50 pounds, but eats like a horse. I don't know where she puts it. I doubt I will be alive in 10 more years, but there are others who will be glad to have her with them. I am glad you are not one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #45 July 30, 2008 Sure abortion is a selfish act. Who gave any woman the right to have her child slain? Those women who have had abortions are still mothers....but mothers of murdered children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hungarianchick 0 #46 July 30, 2008 QuoteI think many people do see very young DS kids as "cute", and they really are. Problem is DS adults are not "cute". They'll either become a tremendous burden on the parents or a ward of the State. Fortunately for us there are people who have the compassion to handle the situation. I am not one of them. Tucked away all across this country are "homes" for these people staffed by compassionate individuals and funded by you and me. I've visited them and it's not pretty but they make the most of it. Where it really gets interesting is when Medicare gets involved and is tasked with "protecting" their rights. I could tell stories that would make you shake your head. As for the 10yo, sometimes I think it goes along the vein of getting a puppy. 10yo's think that way. With all due respect, I beg to differ. I happen to be one of those "compassionate individuals". I've worked with people with disabilities most of my career. Most people with DS are their own guardian, or under the guardianship of family members, not "wards of the state". Many live independently, have jobs, and fulfilling social lives. Those homes that you mention are not "tucked away" but integrated into the community, with caring neighbors. At least that is how things are in the agency I work for. Don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of things to be done and it is a constant uphill battle against looming budget cuts. But you know what? This is the area I'd rather see my tax dollars going. As for whether I would abort a fetus with DS or not, I don't know. I'm not a mother, and I never will be one. You have to consider that there are many serious medical concerns that go along with DS. One of them is Alzheimer'z Disease. In the past, people with DS simply didn't live long enough for this problem to surface, because they died at a young age of heart disease. But thanks to the advances in medical science, they live longer lives and we see the beginning stages of dementia in literally every single one of them as early as their late thirties but definitely in their late forties, early fifties. I guess my point is that each case is unique, and each parent should be able to make their own decision about keeping the pregnancy or not. Edited to add: A person becomes a "Ward of State" if the legal guardian deceases or withdraws without appointing somebody else to oversee the person's affairs. In my 17 year career I've never seen this happen. "I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #47 July 30, 2008 Personally, I think your comment that a 10 yr old Downs is akin to Puppy is downright stupid. You are an insulting person to even think such a thing. Lindsay, is very much more a human being than you are, judging from your statements. She will NEVER be put in any " home" because there is more than enough people who would stand up and take care of her. We even have a bank account set up for her needs in the future. Please keep your insulting remarks to yourself. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #48 July 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteInteresting. I think it would be mean and cruel to knowingly have a child with DS. My fetus, I would alert the media. If I were a woman, I believe I would never abort a pregnancy unless two doctors could convince me that continuing the gestation would kill us both. My s.o's fetus or any other woman?: her body, her decision, regardless of whatever the reason might be, Down diagnosis or whatever. Blows my mind that the abortion debate really doesn't start and end that simply. My body, my decision, your body, your decision. And men have no say in the decision as to if their child is "terminated" or not? Sounds fair. So much for "equal rights". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #49 July 30, 2008 Men should have a say....the baby is as much theirs as the woman's. If it lives, the man has to pay for it all through it's life. The man should definitely have a say in what happens to the child at any stage of its development or life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #50 July 30, 2008 Your remarks on children with DS ring very true; I realised that working at the Special Olympics once, but many people haven't quite got first hand experience like yourself. So it's good to hear about it. Ultimately it's the parents selfish decision in regards to their families future well-being. I think Wendy pretty much summed it up. p.s. Have you looked at your Armageddon-ometer recently? What does it say? Anything about Obama? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
