mnealtx 0 #101 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteThese guns have more moving parts and more things to potentially have to think about in a frightening situation. I disagree. I challenge you to find many revolvers with LESS moving parts than a Glock. Also, Glocks do not have safety levers. Once your chambered (which is how I carry) all you have to do is draw, aim and sqeeze. That's all you have to do with a revolver, as well - what's your point?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #102 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteThese guns have more moving parts and more things to potentially have to think about in a frightening situation. I disagree. I challenge you to find many revolvers with LESS moving parts than a Glock. Also, Glocks do not have safety levers. Once your chambered (which is how I carry) all you have to do is draw, aim and sqeeze. That's all you have to do with a revolver, as well - what's your point? My point is a Glock and a revolver are equally simple to use. The post I quoted made it seem as if semi-auto's are MUCH more difficult to use than revolves. A 1911 maybe, but Glock was also brought into the discussion. Also, a revolver holds 6 maybe 8. A Glock holds 15+.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #103 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThese guns have more moving parts and more things to potentially have to think about in a frightening situation. I disagree. I challenge you to find many revolvers with LESS moving parts than a Glock. Also, Glocks do not have safety levers. Once your chambered (which is how I carry) all you have to do is draw, aim and sqeeze. That's all you have to do with a revolver, as well - what's your point? My point is a Glock and a revolver are equally simple to use. The post I quoted made it seem as if semi-auto's are MUCH more difficult to use than revolves. A 1911 maybe, but Glock was also brought into the discussion. Also, a revolver holds 6 maybe 8. A Glock holds 15+. Funny how people always say that (autos are too difficult to use), when they drive to/from everyplace in a vehicle that has multiple controls that have to be used on a regular basis, sometimes in split-second decisions.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #104 August 4, 2008 QuoteMy point is a Glock and a revolver are equally simple to use. The post I quoted made it seem as if semi-auto's are MUCH more difficult to use than revolves. A 1911 maybe, but Glock was also brought into the discussion. Also, a revolver holds 6 maybe 8. A Glock holds 15+. SA's must be chambered, the revolver does not. SA's can fail to feed the next round if the ejected casing doesn't clear - saw this a bit with some shooters. Revolvers don't have that concern. My memory is faint, but aren't glocks only available as SAO or DAO, no SA/DA hybrid where you can pull the hammer back for the first round if you choose, or leave it down? Is there a decocking level? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #105 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteMy point is a Glock and a revolver are equally simple to use. The post I quoted made it seem as if semi-auto's are MUCH more difficult to use than revolves. A 1911 maybe, but Glock was also brought into the discussion. Also, a revolver holds 6 maybe 8. A Glock holds 15+. SA's must be chambered, the revolver does not. SA's can fail to feed the next round if the ejected casing doesn't clear - saw this a bit with some shooters. Revolvers don't have that concern. Revolvers can tie up, too - if the cylinder pawl breaks, it's not going to index to the next round. QuoteMy memory is faint, but aren't glocks only available as SAO or DAO, no SA/DA hybrid where you can pull the hammer back for the first round if you choose, or leave it down? Is there a decocking level? Glock have an internal hammer, so there's no thumb-cocking. I consider them SAO, since the hammer is pre-cocked during cycling. There's no decocking lever.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #106 August 4, 2008 QuoteMy memory is faint, but aren't glocks only available as SAO or DAO, no SA/DA hybrid where you can pull the hammer back for the first round if you choose, or leave it down? Is there a decocking level? Once one chambers a round in a Glock the gun is ready to fire. Period. No safety lever. No hammer to fumble with. No stupid-ass grip safety crap. Just simple insert mag, rack the slide once, and your ready to do buisness. QuoteSA's can fail to feed the next round if the ejected casing doesn't clear - saw this a bit with some shooters. Revolvers don't have that concern. On several occasions Ive had a revolvers cylinder jam up causing complete failure to fire. My Glock has yet to have a malfunction with over 2500 rounds fired. Disclaimer--- To say the gun has yet to have a malfunction does not mean that a couple of times I havent got bad ammo and it didnt work, but every time the trigger has been pulled on my Glock the GUN has functioned as it was designed.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #107 August 4, 2008 Quote Once one chambers a round in a Glock the gun is ready to fire. Period. No safety lever. No hammer to fumble with. No stupid-ass grip safety crap. Just simple insert mag, rack the slide once, and your ready to do buisness. simplicy can be a feature or a limitation. IMO, it's more the latter here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #108 August 4, 2008 Explain.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #109 August 4, 2008 QuoteExplain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #110 August 4, 2008 why? your quotation makes it clear where you stand, and lack of appreciation for differing viewpoints. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #111 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteExplain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another. Sure there is. Its called KEEPING YOU FINGER OFF THE DAMN TRIGGER. As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #112 August 4, 2008 Quotewhy? your quotation makes it clear where you stand, and lack of appreciation for differing viewpoints. So because you THINK I dont "appreciate" differing veiwpoints then you wont explain your point of veiw at all? For the record I do "appreciate differing veiwpoints". Even though it won't change where I stand on an issue it will allow me to see where the other guy is coming from. Thats all.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #113 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteExplain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another. Sure there is. Its called KEEPING YOU FINGER OFF THE DAMN TRIGGER. Thank you, Captain Obvious - I believe you know what I mean, however. Do you think that Mr. "Nobody in this classroom is expert enough to carry this type of gun" DEA Agent would have ND'ed himself in the leg with a 1911? How about a Sig or an HK, or any other pistol with an external safety? Quote As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow. You have no way to strike the primer a second time, in the case of a misfire/hard primer/etc. With a 1911 (as an example), I can thumb-cock the hammer and try again, or cycle around the cylinder with a revolver. The Glocks are nice pistols, don't get me wrong - but they're not the be-all, end-all that Glock-o-philes pass them off as.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #114 August 4, 2008 Quote You have no way to strike the primer a second time, in the case of a misfire/hard primer/etc. With a 1911 (as an example), I can thumb-cock the hammer and try again, or cycle around the cylinder with a revolver. Gotcha. Very valid point. BTW, I believe (IIRC) the DEA guy in the classroom shot himself with a Glock-22 while holstering. Pretty easy to do if your finger is still in the trigger guard while your holstering the gun.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #115 August 4, 2008 Quote Quote You have no way to strike the primer a second time, in the case of a misfire/hard primer/etc. With a 1911 (as an example), I can thumb-cock the hammer and try again, or cycle around the cylinder with a revolver. Gotcha. Very valid point. BTW, I believe (IIRC) the DEA guy in the classroom shot himself with a Glock-22 while holstering. Pretty easy to do if your finger is still in the trigger guard while your holstering the gun. Yup, it is... that's why I called it an ND rather than an AD. I've shot some 1st-gen and some 3rd-gen Glocks and the 3rd-gen are a LOT nicer in regards to pointability and comfort in the hand - but I'll still take my 1911, it's still the best for me in that regard. I wouldn't mind it if a 9x23 Win conversion 1911 dropped from the sky into my lap, though... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #116 August 4, 2008 I wouldnt mind having a 38 super built on a 1911 platform, but for almost $3k I can forget about that one for a while.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #117 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteExplain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another. Sure there is. Its called KEEPING YOU FINGER OFF THE DAMN TRIGGER. As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow. People have been known to do strange things in stressful, adrenaline heavy situations like addressing a bunch of grade school kids.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #118 August 4, 2008 QuotePeople have been known to do strange things in stressful, adrenaline heavy situations like addressing a bunch of grade school kids. Like the DEA cop! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #119 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteExplain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another. Sure there is. Its called KEEPING YOU FINGER OFF THE DAMN TRIGGER. As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow. People have been known to do strange things in stressful, adrenaline heavy situations like addressing a bunch of grade school kids. What can I say? Some people just get careless once they stop having a healthy respect for something. Swooping deaths can also be looked at in this way.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #120 August 4, 2008 QuoteQuotePeople have been known to do strange things in stressful, adrenaline heavy situations like addressing a bunch of grade school kids. Like the DEA cop! Exactly!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #121 August 4, 2008 QuoteI wouldnt mind having a 38 super built on a 1911 platform, but for almost $3k I can forget about that one for a while. Huh? Unless you're building a race gun from scratch, it shouldn't be anywhere NEAR that much. I know of places where I an get a 9mm/38 super 1911 converted to 9x23 Win for ~$700 (or so). 357 Mag performance, .40 recoil and a 10+1 capacity. Ammo availability is the kicker, though.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #122 August 4, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Explain. No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another. Sure there is. Its called KEEPING YOU FINGER OFF THE DAMN TRIGGER. As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow. People have been known to do strange things in stressful, adrenaline heavy situations like addressing a bunch of grade school kids. What can I say? Some people just get careless once they stop having a healthy respect for something. Swooping deaths can also be looked at in this way. Don't forget that the DEA cop was a "trained professional". Expect more errors from amateurs who are not accustomed to the stress of an armed encounter. Wasn't there a shopkeeper who had tried to shoot a robber without taking his safety off, and who was then disarmed and shot dead by the robber. Quote Mike: Funny how people always say that (autos are too difficult to use), when they drive to/from everyplace in a vehicle that has multiple controls that have to be used on a regular basis, sometimes in split-second decisions. Comparing routinely driving a car with correctly handling a firearm under extreme stress is unreasonable and likely to lead to trouble, IMO. Rather like having every intention of going straight to your reserve following an aircraft emergency, but actually going for your main instead.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #123 August 4, 2008 Quote Don't forget that the DEA cop was a "trained professional". Expect more errors from amateurs who are not accustomed to the stress of an armed encounter. Wasn't there a shopkeeper who had tried to shoot a robber without taking his safety off, and who was then disarmed and shot dead by the robber. Not sure about the robbery, but as far as the DEA being a "trained professional" arent most swoopers TRAINED and considered professionals? How many of them have DIED doing what they were "trained" to do. The DEA guy just injured himself. Kinda goes both ways, but I do agree with you that the DEA guy should NEVER have been that complacent with safety specially in a school full of children.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #124 August 4, 2008 John - I don't disagree (in essence) with either of the examples you show - that's exactly why I advocate training and regular practice for anyone that is considering buying a gun. My post was more about something I find funny - that a pistol with (at most) 2 levers (safety and/or decocker) being "too complicated", when people routinely operate 2-3 pedals, a steering wheel and turn signal/wiper levers (among other controls) intuitively and on a split-second basis.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #125 August 4, 2008 Quote John - I don't disagree (in essence) with either of the examples you show - that's exactly why I advocate training and regular practice for anyone that is considering buying a gun. My post was more about something I find funny - that a pistol with (at most) 2 levers (safety and/or decocker) being "too complicated", when people routinely operate 2-3 pedals, a steering wheel and turn signal/wiper levers (among other controls) intuitively and on a split-second basis. While talking on the cell phone or worse......TEXTING.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
