rhys 0 #1 July 27, 2008 Think about this next time you pay your health insurance; http://threetrilliondollarwar.org/category/war-the-economy/ or this http://www.space.com/news/080205-nasa-budget-2008.html or how about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States What is not socialised about that? Do you find all this spending necessary when many are struggling to make ends meet?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #2 July 27, 2008 Public education is free K-12 here in the USA - courtesy of state governments. I do NOT want to government to do for U.S. health care what it's done for our education system. Socializing health care won't exactly cure budge woes, BTW. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #3 July 27, 2008 QuotePublic education is free K-12 here in the USA So it is, wouldn't you rather have the govornment invest in your health, rather than paying billions so a few astronauts riding exercycles in space can stay on a payroll?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuotePublic education is free K-12 here in the USA So it is, wouldn't you rather have the govornment invest in your health, rather than paying billions so a few astronauts riding exercycles in space can stay on a payroll? Nope - look how badly they fuck everything ELSE up. And, just so you know - the technology that PUT those guys up there riding exercycles? It's what has driven inumerable disciplines for decades - including the very computer you're posting from. Don't sell it short.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #5 July 27, 2008 Not at all. Government pretty much fucks up everything it does as compared with private industry. With national debt being a major problem for the U.S. the LAST thing I'd like to see is health care socialized. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krabberkris 1 #6 July 27, 2008 "So it is, wouldn't you rather have the Government invest in your health, rather than paying billions so a few astronauts riding exercycles in space can stay on a payroll? " HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What about the TRILLIONS in losses from the CORRUPT US Banking System. Mortgage Backed Securities and insider trading Toll Brothers , Angelo Mozillo ... ARREST WATCH !!! How many US Banks will fail NEXT WEEK?? WHERE IS YOUR MONEY ??????? Let's see what ""W" does....................The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 July 27, 2008 Given how the government has managed education, welfare, social security and now federally backed mortgages, I would much rather keep them the f**k away from healthcare, so we can keep the best doctors making a ton of money, and doing a good job.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #8 July 27, 2008 Why are you so worried about our policies and government benefits? If you don't like it over here and have absolutely no desire to become an American, why do you care? JohnRich gets chastised for his comments against England cuz he's not English. How is this different? If we, as Americans, criticize other systems... we are viewed as interfering and imperialistic. If you want to be or are an American and you don't like the systems, then work within the system to make change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #9 July 27, 2008 I like this place, its people and many things about the place. I find it strange though that many folk here oppose the healthcare being funded by tax dollars but freely allow trillions to be fluttered away on pointless excercises. My travel insurance was increased by more than 33% simply because i was coming to the USA, it would have been cheaper had I gone to west africa!! It seems good healthcare is a luxury for the rich rather than aceesable to all. The reason I care...? I'm used to good free/affordable healthcare and wish you all to have it too."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #10 July 27, 2008 Quotere, so we can keep the best doctors making a ton of money, and doing a good job. Pssst … The best doctors don't practice in the US. Our healthcare is more expensive than superior care in many other developed countries. The government would be hard pressed to screw up the industry anywhere near as badly as the insurance industry already has. How's that socialized healthcare working out for you, btw?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #11 July 27, 2008 QuoteIt seems good healthcare is a luxury for the rich rather than aceesable to all. That is not really true. I have tried to educate you on that. But BELIEFS can't be changed with facts. You believe that YOUR system is better and thus we should change.... You don't understand (or seem to want to know) the details. My basic belief is that I do NOT want my government regulating my life. I would most be seen as a libertarian . . . socialized ANYTHING does more to stifle progress Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #12 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuotere, so we can keep the best doctors making a ton of money, and doing a good job. Pssst … The best doctors don't practice in the US. Our healthcare is more expensive than superior care in many other developed countries. Yeah, that's why tens of thousands come to the US from their "developed" social health care programs to undergo treatments here in the US. QuoteThe government would be hard pressed to screw up the industry anywhere near as badly as the insurance industry already has. You bring up a good point, in my opinion, insurance reform would be a better start than socialized medicine. QuoteHow's that socialized healthcare working out for you, btw? Military medicine is hardly "socialized".So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #13 July 27, 2008 QuoteYeah, that's why tens of thousands come to the US from their "developed" social health care programs to undergo treatments here in the US. And why so many Americans go to other countries for treatment. QuoteMilitary medicine is hardly "socialized". That's exactly what it is. The US military is a socialist structure.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #14 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteMilitary medicine is hardly "socialized". That's exactly what it is. The US military is a socialist structure. If you get care on base, ok, I would agree. But TriCare is it's own brand of bad medical insurance and one of the main reasons that I got out and into the civilian field. I want to help PEOPLE .... not play with red tape. Government EQUALS red tape. Submitting requests in triplicate for an ultrasound for pelvic pain. . . fighting insurance companies is bad enough, but fighting the government is intolerable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 July 27, 2008 QuoteThe reason I care...? I'm used to good free/affordable healthcare and wish you all to have it too. It's not "free" - you pay for it with increased income tax and THEN have to buy insurance on top of it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #16 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuote My basic belief is that I do NOT want my government regulating my life. I would most be seen as a libertarian . . . socialized ANYTHING does more to stifle progress You are delusional if you thin k the Govt. does not regulate your life already. Socialised health care does not stifle any progress here in OZ, you would be hard pressed to find any real difference in lifestyles between OZ and the USofA. and we do have socialised Health, and Social Security. I think the biggest hinderence to the USofA being converted to socialised health is the cost, you have 300 million people there, covering the healthcare for that population would be extremely expensive. You country places a higher priority on Defense and Munitions acquisition than it does on the Health of it's people so changing that mind set will be near imposible.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #17 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteMilitary medicine is hardly "socialized". That's exactly what it is. The US military is a socialist structure. And you know this how? The US military is a Command Structure. There is no democracy, no legislature.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #18 July 27, 2008 Bull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? We already HAVE the equivalent of socialized health care - it's called Medicaid.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #19 July 27, 2008 QuoteBull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? We already HAVE the equivalent of socialized health care - it's called Medicaid. And you've forgotten to list how "wonderful" Medicare is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #20 July 27, 2008 QuoteBull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? . What hospitals? Our are not over loaded, we shut down wards due to staffing problems. People do not die in OZ waiting to get into hospital (as a rule). My wife has worked in the system for 29 years, many of our friends are Doctors or Nurses. Our issue is not that we dont have a socialsed healthcare system that works, becuase we do. Our problem is doctors and nurses are leaving the system due to over working and lousy pay. In my state you can get a job in a Mine earning 100,000+ per year with limited skills or you can go to University for 4 years and get a degree in Nursing, then get paid 50,000 per year, and pay back your University fees. But i can still walk into any public hospital, sit down and wait and i will be triaged and taken care of.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #21 July 27, 2008 OK, Squeak. You might be right... but I still don't think that socialized medicine run by our government would be better. I have said MANY times that I wish our system were better, but I do NOT think that turning it over to the government will do that. I would be half tempted to say that we should go back to a fee for service system, but we would NEED to drop the fees.... or even simple barter if necessary.... but NOT the government. Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. You have entitled attitudes butting against that and doctors and nurses caught in the middle. Nope. I would be getting out and becoming a COOK! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #22 July 27, 2008 QuoteAnd you know this how? Because I've been there, done that (A 1/8 FA 25th ID USAHAW). Heck, I might even have the t-shirt somewhere. It certainly wasn't the smartest career move I've ever made, but it was indeed a learning experience. QuoteThe US military is a Command Structure. There is no democracy, no legislature. How much does a Satellite Communication Systems Operator - Maintainer or an Information Systems Operator - Analyst make compared to a Laundry and Shower Specialist or a Food Service Specialist, all with a rank of Specialist and with 30 months time in service? Do you think their income would compare in a similar manner in a capitalist economy? Socialism is an economic system, not a government system. It goes fine with a command structure, a monarchy/dictatorship or democracy/polity, just as capitalism can be implemented with any of them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #23 July 27, 2008 Oh. So we spend money on the military, The federal government (I'm not including state and local) spends more on healthcare than on the military. In 2006, healthcare spending ($697 billion) was 136 percent that of military spending in the federal budget of 512 billion. And to think, we've made more progress in a losing war in IRaq than we have in a losing war of American health affordability. WE HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IN THE U.S. And people are arguing we should have it. What the hell is wrong with people? The Iraq war has claimed far fewer lives than the American health care system. If that statement is wrong, then there is no NEED for social medicine. If the statement is right, then there is a need to eliminate it once and for all. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MikeForsythe 0 #24 July 27, 2008 QuoteMy travel insurance was increased by more than 33% simply because i was coming to the USA, it would have been cheaper had I gone to west africa!! Then go to Africa or quit whining.QuoteIt seems good healthcare is a luxury for the rich rather than aceesable to all.Then explain how I have great health care and insurance and I am not rich? I had a total hip replacement last year and my total out of pocket cost was about $300USD including physical therapy and medications. That seems pretty reasonable to me.QuoteThe reason I care...? I'm used to good free/affordable healthcare and wish you all to have it too.Thanks for the well wishes. I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Also, it is not free, it is paid in some way either by taxes or fees of some type. Do you think that when you travel to other countries you are somehow entitled to a certain level of free health care? Do you think that if you travel to a third world country that has no real health care they should upgrade it for you?Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #25 July 27, 2008 Quote I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Sure it can. Free can be (and typically is) a subset of affordable.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Gawain 0 #17 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteMilitary medicine is hardly "socialized". That's exactly what it is. The US military is a socialist structure. And you know this how? The US military is a Command Structure. There is no democracy, no legislature.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 July 27, 2008 Bull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? We already HAVE the equivalent of socialized health care - it's called Medicaid.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #19 July 27, 2008 QuoteBull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? We already HAVE the equivalent of socialized health care - it's called Medicaid. And you've forgotten to list how "wonderful" Medicare is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 July 27, 2008 QuoteBull - if it's so good, why are the hospitals overloaded and people dying waiting their 'turn' to get into the hospitals? . What hospitals? Our are not over loaded, we shut down wards due to staffing problems. People do not die in OZ waiting to get into hospital (as a rule). My wife has worked in the system for 29 years, many of our friends are Doctors or Nurses. Our issue is not that we dont have a socialsed healthcare system that works, becuase we do. Our problem is doctors and nurses are leaving the system due to over working and lousy pay. In my state you can get a job in a Mine earning 100,000+ per year with limited skills or you can go to University for 4 years and get a degree in Nursing, then get paid 50,000 per year, and pay back your University fees. But i can still walk into any public hospital, sit down and wait and i will be triaged and taken care of.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #21 July 27, 2008 OK, Squeak. You might be right... but I still don't think that socialized medicine run by our government would be better. I have said MANY times that I wish our system were better, but I do NOT think that turning it over to the government will do that. I would be half tempted to say that we should go back to a fee for service system, but we would NEED to drop the fees.... or even simple barter if necessary.... but NOT the government. Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. You have entitled attitudes butting against that and doctors and nurses caught in the middle. Nope. I would be getting out and becoming a COOK! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #22 July 27, 2008 QuoteAnd you know this how? Because I've been there, done that (A 1/8 FA 25th ID USAHAW). Heck, I might even have the t-shirt somewhere. It certainly wasn't the smartest career move I've ever made, but it was indeed a learning experience. QuoteThe US military is a Command Structure. There is no democracy, no legislature. How much does a Satellite Communication Systems Operator - Maintainer or an Information Systems Operator - Analyst make compared to a Laundry and Shower Specialist or a Food Service Specialist, all with a rank of Specialist and with 30 months time in service? Do you think their income would compare in a similar manner in a capitalist economy? Socialism is an economic system, not a government system. It goes fine with a command structure, a monarchy/dictatorship or democracy/polity, just as capitalism can be implemented with any of them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 July 27, 2008 Oh. So we spend money on the military, The federal government (I'm not including state and local) spends more on healthcare than on the military. In 2006, healthcare spending ($697 billion) was 136 percent that of military spending in the federal budget of 512 billion. And to think, we've made more progress in a losing war in IRaq than we have in a losing war of American health affordability. WE HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IN THE U.S. And people are arguing we should have it. What the hell is wrong with people? The Iraq war has claimed far fewer lives than the American health care system. If that statement is wrong, then there is no NEED for social medicine. If the statement is right, then there is a need to eliminate it once and for all. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #24 July 27, 2008 QuoteMy travel insurance was increased by more than 33% simply because i was coming to the USA, it would have been cheaper had I gone to west africa!! Then go to Africa or quit whining.QuoteIt seems good healthcare is a luxury for the rich rather than aceesable to all.Then explain how I have great health care and insurance and I am not rich? I had a total hip replacement last year and my total out of pocket cost was about $300USD including physical therapy and medications. That seems pretty reasonable to me.QuoteThe reason I care...? I'm used to good free/affordable healthcare and wish you all to have it too.Thanks for the well wishes. I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Also, it is not free, it is paid in some way either by taxes or fees of some type. Do you think that when you travel to other countries you are somehow entitled to a certain level of free health care? Do you think that if you travel to a third world country that has no real health care they should upgrade it for you?Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #25 July 27, 2008 Quote I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Sure it can. Free can be (and typically is) a subset of affordable.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
