The USAF Takes Another One to the Teeth

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

John, I used to work at these facilitys at Minot AFB from 1977-1981. I was on the Security crews. These officers are 90+ft below ground and no one is getting down or in there without them giving the ok...

Thanks for that personal insight. It buttresses the fact that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

More photos from my visit to the Titan missile site:

1) View of a massive steel door which insulates the bunker rooms from the outside world.

2) All the rooms underground are mounted on giant springs, to absorb blast from nuclear attack, and protect the equipment inside from shock damage.

3) The concrete blast doors above ground which slide back to open up the missile silo for launch.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

John, I used to work at these facilitys at Minot AFB from 1977-1981. I was on the Security crews. These officers are 90+ft below ground and no one is getting down or in there without them giving the ok...

Thanks for that personal insight. It buttresses the fact that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

More photos from my visit to the Titan missile site:

1) View of a massive steel door which insulates the bunker rooms from the outside world.

2) All the rooms underground are mounted on giant springs, to absorb blast from nuclear attack, and protect the equipment inside from shock damage.

3) The concrete blast doors above ground which slide back to open up the missile silo for launch.

I like these better>http://www.silohome.com/id22_silohome_surface_with_plane.htm

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[FreeflyChile 0]

Those are very cool.

I have a question...just out of curiosity, how often are those doors checked/opened to make sure they work (in active nuclear silos, I mean)?

I imagine with current satellite technology it's gotta be pretty easy for other countries to keep tabs on some of these sites and it might cause some worry to see the silo hatches opening up for routine tests/maintenance....

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

how often are those doors checked/opened to make sure they work (in active nuclear silos, I mean)? I imagine with current satellite technology it's gotta be pretty easy for other countries to keep tabs on some of these sites and it might cause some worry to see the silo hatches opening up for routine tests/maintenance....

I don't know. I suppose if it's just one here and there opening up, it wouldn't be great cause for alarm. If they saw all of them opening all at once, then they would probably run for cover! Good question though. Maybe they actually notify the Russians, like we do with military exercises and missile tests, so that they know it's not an act of aggression against them.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Thanks for that personal insight. It buttresses the fact that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

To what “facts” are you referring?

(1) On the issue: "The facts" are that nuclear security, nuclear surety, and all things related to classified procedures are very serious.

This is the 4th incident involving violation of nuclear-related security in the last 12 months & the 3rd within Minot AFB’s commands related to the nuclear complex. Those are facts.

Violations of any national security procedures, moreso within the nuclear weapons complex – whether DOE labs, NNSA, or DoD – should be of great concern and seriousness.

The underlying danger of the argument you are suggesting is it implies one should be able to selectively pick & chose which classified security violations are important. I doubt that is what you intended.

(2) On what basis do you make such a claim about "the media"? Thus far 2 articles have been cited – one from Air Force Times and one AP newswire story. As illustrative 3rd & 4th examples, this single CNN story and single Fox News story typify commercial media stories prominently noting it was a violation of procedures. Not a "loose nuke" or "impending Armageddon" -- that would be sensationalistic. If anything, one might assert is the fact that this is *not* getting enough attention. (And that lack of attention was part of the reason Wynne & Mosely lost their jobs resigned.)

By comparison, the 20-something drunk British women on the private plane seem to be getting more attention. But that’s just my *opinion.*

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[JohnRich 4]

Well, if you want to play the role of "chicken little" and run around yelling the "the sky is falling" because a couple of guys fell asleep in one of the most secure facilities on earth, then go right ahead. I've already stated my opinion, and why, and I'm not going to start repeating myself.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Well, if you want to play the role of "chicken little" and run around yelling the "the sky is falling" because a couple of guys fell asleep in one of the most secure facilities on earth, then go right ahead. I've already stated my opinion, and why, and I'm not going to start repeating myself.

Please cite one statement that I have made which would be characterized as playing the role of "chicken little."

Please cite one media source that suggests a "sky is falling scenario."

Opinion does not equal fact, i.e, what you asserted in the post to which I responded: "It buttresses the fact that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here."

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[cloudseeker2001 0]

Quote

Quote

Well, if you want to play the role of "chicken little" and run around yelling the "the sky is falling" because a couple of guys fell asleep in one of the most secure facilities on earth, then go right ahead. I've already stated my opinion, and why, and I'm not going to start repeating myself.

Please cite one statement that I have made which would be characterized as playing the role of "chicken little."

Please cite one media source that suggests a "sky is falling scenario."

Opinion does not equal fact, i.e, what you asserted in the post to which I responded: "It buttresses the fact that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here."

VR/Marg

Wanna reopen the West Texas Mormon thread??????

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Wanna reopen the West Texas Mormon thread??????

Wanna say something topical? Or are you simply demonstrating that you have no valid point to make in this thread, either.

Feel free to point out all the media accounts that make a big deal out of this incident.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Air Force Missile Launch Crew Fell Asleep

I don't know many folks in the Air Force, a few pilots, but those I know have expressed things are not well overall.

The leadership needs to reign in this BS and remind those in the USAF that they are, in fact, a component of the military.

I recently caught up with a friend who has 15 years in the Coast Guard, and was a ship's captain until they actually fired him from that position! (a lot of bullshit politics, and from this guy, I believe every word he says). He says the Coast Guard is in disarray.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Wanna reopen the West Texas Mormon thread??????

With you absolutely, no.

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Please cite one statement that I have made which would be characterized as playing the role of "chicken little." Please cite one media source that suggests a "sky is falling scenario."

It's all right there in your message #30. Especially when you suggest that a couple of guys asleep deep underground in the most secure facility on earth is somehow equivalent to losing track of nuclear bombs above ground. Just because this incident occurred in a facility that contains "nuclear" in the name, does not mean that it's a serious breach of nuclear security.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Quote

Please cite one statement that I have made which would be characterized as playing the role of "chicken little." Please cite one media source that suggests a "sky is falling scenario."

It's all right there in your message #30. Especially when you suggest that a couple of guys asleep deep underground in the most secure facility on earth is somehow equivalent to losing track of nuclear bombs above ground. Just because this incident occurred in a facility that contains "nuclear" in the name, does not mean that it's a serious breach of nuclear security.

John,

Please go back & read what I wrote.

I cited "loose nukes" as a counter-example of what _would_ qualify as sensationalistic: “Not a ‘loose nuke’ or ‘impending Armageddon’ -- that would be sensationalistic.”

And if that was what any media account I have seen stated, I would agree with you. But that's neither what’s been published nor what I wrote. The language that I have used has been exceedingly precise: "self-reported security violation."

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[cloudseeker2001 0]

Quote

Quote

Wanna reopen the West Texas Mormon thread??????

Wanna say something topical? Or are you simply demonstrating that you have no valid point to make in this thread, either.

Feel free to point out all the media accounts that make a big deal out of this incident.

I'll say whatever I choose.

My post was a direct comparison to another thread specifically for Nerdgirl. I have made my point, unfortunate if you do not get it.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

Feel free to point out all the media accounts that make a big deal out of this incident.

I'll say whatever I choose.

My post was a direct comparison to another thread specifically for Nerdgirl. I have made my point, unfortunate if you do not get it.

What point was that? That you have nothing constructive to offer?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Please cite one statement that I have made which would be characterized as playing the role of "chicken little." Please cite one media source that suggests a "sky is falling scenario."

It's all right there in your message #30. Especially when you suggest that a couple of guys asleep deep underground in the most secure facility on earth is somehow equivalent to losing track of nuclear bombs above ground. Just because this incident occurred in a facility that contains "nuclear" in the name, does not mean that it's a serious breach of nuclear security.

The crew that fell asleep was not on-post at the alert station. They were above ground, in a facility that has security (one guard) and where only half alert crew is allowed to be stood down (in the Army, we would call that 50% security).

There's been no serious media coverage of this, and that's why I brought it up.

The USAF has allowed, and we have been witness to, procedures, and protocol to go unenforced or checked for what appears to be years.

Standards so low, that weapons technicians adopted their "own" streamlined procedures for handling weapons and their delivery systems which allowed not one, not two, not three, not even four or five, but SIX cruise missiles to be armed. Not just any cruise missile, but AGM-129 low observable systems, carrying one W-80 warhead (up to 150KT).

Standards so low, that a procurement arm allowed detonators to be sent to Taiwan. Where they stayed for two years. A situation that certainly raised eye-brows to raise in China...who does have nukes, and has the worlds largest standing army.

Standards so low, that Minot AFB failed security reviews in the handling of its most sensitive items.

Standards so low, that a crew that has been on duty for only twenty four hours can't hang in with 50% until off duty back on post.

I am not saying that armageddon is here either, I am saying that leadership is lacking. I am saying that the USAF needs another Gen. Curtis LeMay.

All the branches of the military have issues, the USAF needs a kick back on track, regain its pride, and re-join the armed forces.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[misaltas 0]

Quote

a tech sergeant told a major that her hair was out of regs and she had 3 days to get it fixed...the tsgt was given inpromptu training as to the difference between officer and enlisted

Let's see. The major hid behind her rank to excuse her own regulation violation. Now that's unprofessional.

In the US Army (or at least when I was in), such a correction, while awkward, would be covered by General Military Authority, especially given that the one making the correction is an NCO.

That said, the NCO has the duty to make the correction, and also the duty to preserve order and discipline. The way to do both would be to point out the problem, one-on-one, no write up threat needed (but still not technically wrong.)

So, not knowing the other circumstances, just I'd say on the face of it the TSgt was doing her duty.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[TrophyHusband 0]

first, while an enlisted person can make such a correction, an enlisted person can not give an order and a deadline the way this tsgt did, she was disrespectful when she did it. second, the major's hair was not outside of regulations.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[misaltas 0]

Quote

first, while an enlisted person can make such a correction, an enlisted person can not give an order and a deadline the way this tsgt did, she was disrespectful when she did it. second, the major's hair was not outside of regulations.

Ah, cool. It's just from your words I didn't and don't see an order being given. (Sorry to go on like this, but I'm a former army commissioned infantry officer, and thus a stalwart defender of NCOs and their duties and responsibilities.)

>the major's hair was not outside of regulations

And again, one of the many circumstances surrounding this of which I was sure I was unaware. apologies.

But while I have momentum, I'll keep shooting off my mouth...

Another mistake by the TSgt was offering a three-day grace period. Reg corrections need to take place as soon as practical and it doesn't take three days to fix a hair problem. She should've handled the correction professionally or written it up right then.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts