The USAF Takes Another One to the Teeth

[Gawain 0]

Air Force Missile Launch Crew Fell Asleep

I don't know many folks in the Air Force, a few pilots, but those I know have expressed things are not well overall.

The leadership needs to reign in this BS and remind those in the USAF that they are, in fact, a component of the military.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[TrophyHusband 0]

having lived with someone in the air force for 8 years, i can whole-heartedly agree.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[BillyVance 35]

Now where's that recruiting video of all branches of the military, showing the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard in training or in action, and then the Air Force, on a golf course?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[diablopilot 2]

I think this incident is a bit less of an issue than the media is playing it up to be.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BikerBabe 0]

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I think this incident is a bit less of an issue than the media is playing it up to be.

To be sure. Way overhyped and overreacted to. Thank god my poor friend who missed an unlocked safe in his end of the day security check did it 8 years ago and not today. There was a security investigation, like in the article, and it was found that nothing was compromised...and he had to go to some re-training. God forbid the media didn't get a hold of it!

*shakes head in amazement*

I give you the following:

Quote

n those days, the Air Force and the Navy had nuclear weapons, and so the Army had to have its nukes. Our prize was a 280mm atomic cannon carried on twin truck-tractors, looking like a World War I Big Bertha. The Russians obviously wanted to know where our 280s were so that they could knock them out if and when they attacked. Consequently, the guns were always guarded by an infantry platoon as the trucks hauled them around the German forests to keep the Soviets guessing. One day Captain Miller summoned me. He was assigning my platoon to a secret mission. We had been selected to guard a 280. I eagerly alerted my men. I loaded my .45 caliber pistol, jumped into my jeep, and headed for battalion headquarters to be briefed. I was excited; I was going to guard a weapon that fired a nuclear warhead!

I had not gone far when I reached down for the reassuring feel of the .45. It was gone. I was petrified. In the Army, losing a weapon is serious business. I was torn between taking time to look for the pistol and getting on with the mission. Finally, I realized that I had to radio Captain Miller and tell him what had happened.

"Powell, are you on your way yet?" he asked right off the bat.
"Yes, sir. But, you see ... I lost my pistol."
"You what?" he said in disbelief, then, after a few seconds, added, "All right, continue the mission."

After being briefed at battalion headquarters, I returned to pick up my unit, uneasily contemplating my fate. I had just passed through a little German village when I spotted Captain Miller waiting for me in his jeep at the wood line. He called me over. "I've got something for you," he said. He handed me the pistol. "Some kids in the village found it where it fell out of your holster." Kids found it? I felt a cold chill. "Yeah," he said. "Luckily they only got off one round before we heard the shot and came and took the gun away from them." The disastrous possibilities left me limp. "For God's sake, son," Miller said, "don't let that happen again."

He drove off. I checked the magazine; it was full. The gun had not been fired. I learned later that I had dropped it in my tent before I ever got started. Miller had fabricated the whole scene about the kids to scare me into being more responsible. He never mentioned the incident again.

Today, the Army would have held an investigation, called in lawyers, and likely have entered a fatal black mark on my record. Instead, Miller concocted his imaginative story. He evidently thought, I've got this ordinarily able second lieutenant. Sometimes he gets a little ahead of his skis and takes a tumble. I'll teach him a lesson, scare the bejeezus out of him; but let's not ruin his career before it gets started.

The young Lt.? Colin Powell.

http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/feature.pages/powell.htm

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[livendive 8]

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I think this incident is a bit less of an issue than the media is playing it up to be.

What he said.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

I think this incident is a bit less of an issue than the media is playing it up to be.

Yes, if you read the story very carefully you can figure out that the media is just sensationalizing this story. The crew was apparently in the "alert facility", which is just the crew quarters where they rest when they're not on duty in the actual launch room. That's where they're supposed to rest and sleep, that's where their bunks are. They were waiting for pick-up at the end of their shift. A fourth officer was apparently still on duty in the launch room, so it's not like the critical control room was unattended.

All the talk about launch codes is irrelevant - the codes weren't compromised. Sleeping in the underground facility with the launch codes is normal. There is security top-side, as well as fences and sensors. There was no danger of losing the codes here. Just a crew at the end of their shift waiting to go home. Sheesh.

I've visited the decommissioned missile facility south of Tucson, and this just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. The security in those facilities is really tight. The crew may have violated some rule about the number of people in the control room, but there certainly is no breach of nuclear security here.

[downwardspiral 0]

I read this article last night and my first thought is they were probably caught by another officer with a hardon trying to advance his/her career.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

I think this incident is a bit less of an issue than the media is playing it up to be.

To be sure. Way overhyped and overreacted to. Thank god my poor friend who missed an unlocked safe in his end of the day security check did it 8 years ago and not today. There was a security investigation, like in the article, and it was found that nothing was compromised...and he had to go to some re-training. God forbid the media didn't get a hold of it!

*shakes head in amazement*

I give you the following:

Quote

n those days, the Air Force and the Navy had nuclear weapons, and so the Army had to have its nukes. Our prize was a 280mm atomic cannon carried on twin truck-tractors, looking like a World War I Big Bertha. The Russians obviously wanted to know where our 280s were so that they could knock them out if and when they attacked. Consequently, the guns were always guarded by an infantry platoon as the trucks hauled them around the German forests to keep the Soviets guessing. One day Captain Miller summoned me. He was assigning my platoon to a secret mission. We had been selected to guard a 280. I eagerly alerted my men. I loaded my .45 caliber pistol, jumped into my jeep, and headed for battalion headquarters to be briefed. I was excited; I was going to guard a weapon that fired a nuclear warhead!

I had not gone far when I reached down for the reassuring feel of the .45. It was gone. I was petrified. In the Army, losing a weapon is serious business. I was torn between taking time to look for the pistol and getting on with the mission. Finally, I realized that I had to radio Captain Miller and tell him what had happened.

"Powell, are you on your way yet?" he asked right off the bat.
"Yes, sir. But, you see ... I lost my pistol."
"You what?" he said in disbelief, then, after a few seconds, added, "All right, continue the mission."

After being briefed at battalion headquarters, I returned to pick up my unit, uneasily contemplating my fate. I had just passed through a little German village when I spotted Captain Miller waiting for me in his jeep at the wood line. He called me over. "I've got something for you," he said. He handed me the pistol. "Some kids in the village found it where it fell out of your holster." Kids found it? I felt a cold chill. "Yeah," he said. "Luckily they only got off one round before we heard the shot and came and took the gun away from them." The disastrous possibilities left me limp. "For God's sake, son," Miller said, "don't let that happen again."

He drove off. I checked the magazine; it was full. The gun had not been fired. I learned later that I had dropped it in my tent before I ever got started. Miller had fabricated the whole scene about the kids to scare me into being more responsible. He never mentioned the incident again.

Today, the Army would have held an investigation, called in lawyers, and likely have entered a fatal black mark on my record. Instead, Miller concocted his imaginative story. He evidently thought, I've got this ordinarily able second lieutenant. Sometimes he gets a little ahead of his skis and takes a tumble. I'll teach him a lesson, scare the bejeezus out of him; but let's not ruin his career before it gets started.

The young Lt.? Colin Powell.

http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/feature.pages/powell.htm

With respect to Mr. Powell, while losing a weapon is serious business, comparing that to a crew falling asleep while in possession of launch codes (expired or not) which control part or whole of a missile wing, is not apples-to-apples.

In the wake of the serious misqueues the Air Force has uncovered with respect to the handling procedures of the nuclear arsenal, and nuclear components, this is a serious matter.

It also is indicative of a circumstance, that I believe permeates the Air Force beyond its strategic operations. In my own observations, I've seen officers and enlisted on first name basis, casual rapport between pilots and crews amongst nearly every USAF unit I've encountered.

This type of conduct is common in Special Operations in other branches, SpecOps is a whole different animal. However, in line type units it results in a breakdown in the support channel and of the overall chain of command - in this case, perhaps an entire branch of the military. It is certainly part of the root of the problem that allowed a B-52 to transport armed missiles (missiles that were to be decommissioned) across the country without any pre-mission inspection or verification.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BikerBabe 0]

I point you to JohnRich's post.

This article is out of control media, plain and simple. Please don't bring inter-service rivalries into, either, because that's ridiculous.

If you think the army and navy don't have security investigations of which the results turn out to be "no information was compromised" on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, i think i have some seaside property in Arizona to sell you.

Out of curiosity, have you ever observed a tank crew for an extended period of time? (genuinely curious, as I have not and would be interested in knowing how the rapport is between the officer and enlisted members of said crews)

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[downwardspiral 0]

I was a USMC CH-53d & e crew chief and the rapport between the pilots and enlisted aircrew was all business. We were too busy to do anything else.

I imagine a tank crew is a little bit more lax but not even close to the level a non-combat Air Force unit can be. And that's the difference right there. You really can't compare a non-combat unit with a combat unit regarding rapport.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[JohnRich 4]

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With respect to Mr. Powell, while losing a weapon is serious business, comparing that to a crew falling asleep while in possession of launch codes (expired or not) which control part or whole of a missile wing, is not apples-to-apples.

What harm was done by three men sleeping in a highly secure bunker with launch codes in a secure box. The codes are normally in that secure box down there. And the crew normally sleep in shifts while on duty down there.

It's not like those codes could have been stolen by the enemy. You can't just walk into a nuclear missile silo and steal something. There's security above ground. There are fences and sensors. There are locked doors and pass codes. These are the most secure places on the face of the earth. If there's ever a nuclear war, you WANT to be inside one of those silos, as they are built to be immune from nuclear strikes.

Also, it's not like they weren't still on alert and able to wake up and run down the stairs and use the codes within seconds if necessary. It's no different from when the normally spell each other with sleep breaks.

So what actual harm was done by this? I don't see any. Yeah, it's not good to sleep if you're supposed to be on duty, but beyond that violation of a basic "general order", no harm has been done.

Just because it happened in a missile silo the press is trying to make it sound like it was some horrible violation of nuclear security. I don't see that. No one else could get the codes. No one else could launch the missile.

[downwardspiral 0]

I'm sure the reason there are suppose to be two officer's awake is so one is not left alone with the codes.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm sure the reason there are suppose to be two officer's awake is so one is not left alone with the codes.

Perhaps. But it also takes TWO people to launch a missile. It's just like in the movies, where two keys have to be turned simultaneously, and those two keys are too far apart to be operated by just one person. So a single person can't do anything improper by himself.

[FreeflyChile 0]

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With respect to Mr. Powell, while losing a weapon is serious business, comparing that to a crew falling asleep while in possession of launch codes (expired or not) which control part or whole of a missile wing, is not apples-to-apples.

What harm was done by three men sleeping in a highly secure bunker with launch codes in a secure box. The codes are normally in that secure box down there. And the crew normally sleep in shifts while on duty down there.

It's not like those codes could have been stolen by the enemy. You can't just walk into a nuclear missile silo and steal something. There's security above ground. There are fences and sensors. There are locked doors and pass codes. These are the most secure places on the face of the earth. If there's ever a nuclear war, you WANT to be inside one of those silos, as they are built to be immune from nuclear strikes.

Also, it's not like they weren't still on alert and able to wake up and run down the stairs and use the codes within seconds if necessary. It's no different from when the normally spell each other with sleep breaks.

So what actual harm was done by this? I don't see any. Yeah, it's not good to sleep if you're supposed to be on duty, but beyond that violation of a basic "general order", no harm has been done.

Just because it happened in a missile silo the press is trying to make it sound like it was some horrible violation of nuclear security. I don't see that. No one else could get the codes. No one else could launch the missile.

My guess is that the reason it is a story is what you said - it's a missile silo. But I think that while it's probably not a big deal, the story attempts to make it seem like it's an institutional problem - that though no information was taken or no real danger was posed, that this kind of thing (sleeping on post at a missile silo) is not a big deal.

I am not going to worry or get worked up about it, but for the uninitiated (like myself) who don't have a clue about how things are done internally in the military, I think the story is supposed to make you think "hmm...."

[vortexring 0]

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I've visited the decommissioned missile facility south of Tucson, and this just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. The security in those facilities is really tight. The crew may have violated some rule about the number of people in the control room, but there certainly is no breach of nuclear security here.

I meant to go along and visit that facility! If I remember correctly I went walking up Picacho peak instead. Is it worth a visit? Also, is that you in the 2nd pic john?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[livendive 8]

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It also is indicative of a circumstance, that I believe permeates the Air Force beyond its strategic operations. In my own observations, I've seen officers and enlisted on first name basis, casual rapport between pilots and crews amongst nearly every USAF unit I've encountered.

This type of conduct is common in Special Operations in other branches, SpecOps is a whole different animal. However, in line type units it results in a breakdown in the support channel and of the overall chain of command - in this case, perhaps an entire branch of the military. It is certainly part of the root of the problem that allowed a B-52 to transport armed missiles (missiles that were to be decommissioned) across the country without any pre-mission inspection or verification.

So which group should stay away from our DZ, the officers or the enlisted men? Maybe they could alternate weekends, one weekend the officers come to our DZ and the enlisted men drive 480 miles round-trip to the next closest DZ, the following weekend they switch.

Or maybe they can all come, but only if they promise to not fraternize?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[JohnRich 4]

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I've visited the decommissioned missile facility south of Tucson...

I meant to go along and visit that facility! If I remember correctly I went walking up Picacho peak instead. Is it worth a visit? Also, is that you in the 2nd pic john?

The missile silo is a very cool place. The man in the photo is the tour guide. There is a club of retired Air Force guys that run the place.

There are also two very old Spanish missions in the same area of the silo, which are worth a visit. Tubac and Tumacacori.

And climbing Picacho Peak is cool too. I've done that as well.

And a hike in Saguaro National Forest with the giant cacti.

And Catalina State Park with Indian Pueblo ruins and old Indian pottery shards scattered around everywhere.

And that big mountain on the north side of the Tucson - what's the name of that again? Drive up to the top of that sometime for the view.

Casa Grande, a huge Indian pueblo site is just north.

And head further north into the mountains and there are more Indian cliff dwellings, mountain lakes, and majestic dams.

Yeah, there's all kinds of neat stuff to see around Skydive Eloy.

[vortexring 0]

Yes, indeed there is. I very much enjoyed my time there - I'll visit the facility next time I'm over. I wasn't jumping at Eloy, but did manage to almost bust their airspace on an initial familiarization flight.

It is a beautiful state - possibly my favourite.

I can't remember the name of the mountain north of Tucson, but google maps tells me it's called Mt Lemmon.

Hiking around with the sun setting down into the peaks gave off a fantastic light amongst all the cacti. When I've got a moment I'll stick on a couple of pics.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[TrophyHusband 0]

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I read this article last night and my first thought is they were probably caught by another officer with a hardon trying to advance his/her career.

i heard on a news report (haven't found it in writing yet) that the men turned themselves in. if this is true, them mad props to them for manning up. something that definately should be taken into account.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

about 6 months ago a tech sergeant told a major that her hair was out of regs and she had 3 days to get it fixed before she (the major) would be written up (by the tech sergeant). the tsgt was given inpromptu training as to the difference between officer and enlisted an was invited to write it up and see how it would work out. granted that this tsgt was known to be a little off her rocker and definately unprofessional, but what kind of atmosphere must there be when she thought this would be appropriate?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Gawain 0]

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It also is indicative of a circumstance, that I believe permeates the Air Force beyond its strategic operations. In my own observations, I've seen officers and enlisted on first name basis, casual rapport between pilots and crews amongst nearly every USAF unit I've encountered.

This type of conduct is common in Special Operations in other branches, SpecOps is a whole different animal. However, in line type units it results in a breakdown in the support channel and of the overall chain of command - in this case, perhaps an entire branch of the military. It is certainly part of the root of the problem that allowed a B-52 to transport armed missiles (missiles that were to be decommissioned) across the country without any pre-mission inspection or verification.

So which group should stay away from our DZ, the officers or the enlisted men? Maybe they could alternate weekends, one weekend the officers come to our DZ and the enlisted men drive 480 miles round-trip to the next closest DZ, the following weekend they switch.

Or maybe they can all come, but only if they promise to not fraternize?

Blues,
Dave

My reference was to what I observed during active duty hours. Sh*t, I saluted a Captain at Altus AFB a few months ago, she almost left-handed the return salute, while giggling that she almost forgot what to do.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[2cmyzx 0]

John, I used to work at these facilitys at Minot AFB from 1977-1981. I was on the Security crews. These officers are 90+ft below ground and no one is getting down or in there without them giving the ok. They control the elevator. At the time I was there they had 2 officers that switched duty every 24hrs. There were times on thier shift when both were required to be awake but most of the time they split the shift and one would sleep. Oh and another thing the media does not report, The launch process is a very complicated thing, requires more than just the 2 or 3 at the facility, cant get into detail but one launch facility controls 10 icbms. There are no people out where the actual missles are spread thoughout the countryside. In the reality of the situation, you could just let 2 or 3 terrorists in and down to the control center, hand them the keys and the codes and there is no way in hell that they couid do anything with them!

[nerdgirl 0]

At the risk of trivializing a very serious topic, this thread is just too perfect to pass up the opportunity to post the infamous Nuclear Missile Combat Crew “Death Wears Bunny Slippers” morale patch:

“I was an officer in the Air Force for 9 years and... spent 5 years of my time working in the ICBM career field and it is a hotbed of awesomely bad patches so I figured I would share a few of my favorites that have adorned my sleeve over the years.

“The ‘Death Wears Bunny Slippers’ patch comes from the notion that the people who are supposed to start WWIII and end the world might just be wearing fuzzy pink bunny slippers when they do it. That's because once you are underground and locked in your 15x10 ft capsule for 24 hours with another officer the uniforms come off pretty darn quick. It's all sweats, PJs and anything else in the comfy clothes category after that, at least until your relief crew arrives the next day.”

[/slightly acerbic & marginally silly rant]


Air Force Times also ran a more informative – in the sense that it had more information and was longer, which is reasonable giving its readership; it doesn’t seem noticeably more or less “sensationalistic” than the initially cited article -- on the self-reported lapse/violation of Security procedure, “Minot’s latest alarm: napping with launch codes.”

[TrophyHusband] - it's cited there: "Two to three hours later, the officers woke up and realized they had violated Air Force procedures, [Air Force Space Command spokesman] Doi said. The airmen reported the lapse to their commanders, setting off several inquiries."


Because of the previous flight of six W60 warheads and subsequent major violation of security procedures (i.e., leaving nuclear warheads unguarded) and the Hill AFB incident in which nuclear missile nose cone parts were sent to Taiwan, USAF commands related to nuclear missions are getting extra scrutiny. And they should. Nuclear missions should have extra scrutiny to start and until those responsible with executing the missions demonstrate that the situations that led to the W60s unscheduled flight and the nose-cones sent instead of helicopter batteries are demonstratably changed to meet minimum standards.

I don’t see it so much the issue here as “what’s going on with the Air Force?” as (1)”What’s going on with leadership and standards ar Minot AFB?” & the components involved in nuclear-related missions. During the announced recertification test in May of the 5th Bomb Wing, Airmen were observed napping, playing cell-phone video games while on duty, and other more serious, but less descriptive security and procedural transgressions, and (2) on a higher, strategic level, what’s going on with the prominence or lack thereof regarding the nuclear mission and nuclear surety within the USAF?

On Friday, the Air Force Times also ran a piece on discussions to revive or recreate something like the old Strategic Air Command in order to address the decreased prominence of the nuclear mission (including surety) within the USAF over the last 15 years. There was a similar article in the 21 July print version of Defense News.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[akarunway 1]

My dad was Vice Wing Commander at Clark AFB in the Phillipines at the end of the Vietnam War. He told me a story one day. He said some crates of nukes came in in a hurry and he had nowhere to store them right away. He put them in the middle of an empty hanger and marked them as "trash" or something to that effect. So obvious nobody even fucked with them til he could SAFE them. Seems like nothing ever changes.Edit to add: He's dead and prolly anyone around at the time so I imagine no one can be harmed from the story. And it could be that. Just a story.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.