The pill is abortion

[nerdgirl 0]

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Um, yeah..it doesn't work THAT way either - how did you get out of high school without taking a government class? Department rule doesn't trunp Federal law.

I'd recommend that you do some research on actual laws concerning access to abortive procedures, but I don't want you to break your record in that regard.

Mike,

On an ideal/simplified/far-end/potential challenge, you are correct. But you’ve missed a few steps. And frankly this is NOT high school government/civics level stuff … altho’ one can argue whether it should be.

W/r/t to this specific proposed (or draft) change to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), [SFC] is (more) correct. See pdf copy of the draft Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) rule (NB: the draft rule was leaked, therefore you are unlikely to find it on hhs.gov; that source was the first one that I found through Google.)

Please note (anyone who doesn’t understand this) that the first paragraph of the proposed regulation references 3 Congressional Acts (the Church Amendment, the Public Health Act, & the Weldon Amendment to an Appropriations Act). Those Congressional Public Laws (they each have PL #’s) authorize the HHS to make regulations, aka “rules”, regarding funding distribution by the Executive Branch. Frequently they are as ambiguous as that. (Btw: HHS does not get Congressional Additions, aka “earmarks”.)

Once a draft rule is finalized, it (generally) appears in the Federal Register, as a notice of Federal Rulemaking. This is an Executive Branch function – executing the laws (those PLs) put in place by the Congressional Branch. If Congress was responsible for every rule and regulation, the Executive branch would, completely w/in reason, object.

With this bill, rather than using medical definitions to determine a medical state, the proposed regulation suggests that the definition for a medical/physiological condition be based on a (bare minority opinion but plurality) poll:

“There are two commonly held views on the question of when a pregnancy begins. Some consider a pregnancy to begin at conception (that is, the fertilization of the egg by the sperm), while others consider it to begin with implantation (when the embryo implants in the lining of the uterus). A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception. Presumably many who hold this belief think that any action that destroys human life after conception is the termination of a pregnancy, and so would be included in their definition of the term "abortion." Those who believe pregnancy begins at implantation believe the term "abortion" only includes the destruction of a human being after it has implanted in the lining of the uterus.

“Some medical authorities, like the American Medical Association and the British Medical Association, have defined the term "established pregnancy" as occurring after implantation.”

A couple illustrative analogies of why this is severely problematic: this would be like polling the US public on what some percentage thinks qualifies as an “assault weapon” and using that as the definition to guide gun restrictions. Or using a poll to determine requirements for DoD Acquisition Programs.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[sfc 1]

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Um, yeah..it doesn't work THAT way either - how did you get out of high school without taking a government class? Department rule doesn't trunp Federal law.

I'd recommend that you do some research on actual laws concerning access to abortive procedures, but I don't want you to break your record in that regard.

Mike,

On an ideal/simplified/far-end/potential challenge, you are correct. But you’ve missed a few steps. And frankly this is NOT high school government/civics level stuff … altho’ one can argue whether it should be.

W/r/t to this specific proposed (or draft) change to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), [SFC] is (more) correct. See pdf copy of the draft Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) rule (NB: the draft rule was leaked, therefore you are unlikely to find it on hhs.gov; that source was the first one that I found through Google.)

Please note (anyone who doesn’t understand this) that the first paragraph of the proposed regulation references 3 Congressional Acts (the Church Amendment, the Public Health Act, & the Weldon Amendment to an Appropriations Act). Those Congressional Public Laws (they each have PL #’s) authorize the HHS to make regulations, aka “rules”, regarding funding distribution by the Executive Branch. Frequently they are as ambiguous as that. (Btw: HHS does not get Congressional Additions, aka “earmarks”.)

Once a draft rule is finalized, it (generally) appears in the Federal Register, as a notice of Federal Rulemaking. This is an Executive Branch function – executing the laws (those PLs) put in place by the Congressional Branch. If Congress was responsible for every rule and regulation, the Executive branch would, completely w/in reason, object.

With this bill, rather than using medical definitions to determine a medical state, the proposed regulation suggests that the definition for a medical/physiological condition be based on a (bare minority opinion but plurality) poll:

“There are two commonly held views on the question of when a pregnancy begins. Some consider a pregnancy to begin at conception (that is, the fertilization of the egg by the sperm), while others consider it to begin with implantation (when the embryo implants in the lining of the uterus). A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception. Presumably many who hold this belief think that any action that destroys human life after conception is the termination of a pregnancy, and so would be included in their definition of the term "abortion." Those who believe pregnancy begins at implantation believe the term "abortion" only includes the destruction of a human being after it has implanted in the lining of the uterus.

“Some medical authorities, like the American Medical Association and the British Medical Association, have defined the term "established pregnancy" as occurring after implantation.”

A couple illustrative analogies of why this is severely problematic: this would be like polling the US public on what some percentage thinks qualifies as an “assault weapon” and using that as the definition to guide gun restrictions. Or using a poll to determine requirements for DoD Acquisition Programs.

VR/Marg

excellent post, you have seen right through this ruling and explained the issues really well.

[sfc 1]

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Dozens of people reading my posts probably don't care my opinions but they don't all get upset over it, why do you feel the need to make a big deal out of it, this is just a web site, it is not as if we change the world? Relax.

Are you on drugs? You are the one that is all up in arms about it, I was just giving you a solution.

Dang, when my kids used to act like you are I would just send them to their room or make them muck stalls for a while.

can i come out now?

[TrophyHusband 0]

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could you point to where i said "vast majority"?

See post 99 of this thread where you claimed "the vast majority of OB/Gyns object to elective abortions for moral reasons."

i was quoting you in post 99, you said it, not me.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[MikeForsythe 0]

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can i come out now?

Sure, as long as you live life to the fullest and drink a few rum runners!!!

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[jcd11235 0]

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could you point to where i said "vast majority"?

See post 99 of this thread where you claimed "the vast majority of OB/Gyns object to elective abortions for moral reasons."

i was quoting you in post 99, you said it, not me.

You must have missed the part where you said "the vast majority of OB/Gyns object to elective abortions for moral reasons" to be true, and based that assertion on all the OB/Gyn docs you've spoken with. Or were you simply substituting data with anecdotal experience? Like Kallend said, "The plural of anecdote is not data."

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[TrophyHusband 0]

here i am enjoying a friendly debate with you and you invoke the name of kallend? while his words may be right and even appicable in this instance, in the absence of a survey, personal experience is all i have to go on. until i or someone else finds a reputable survey to the contrary, i stand by my opinion. if it exists, i'm sure nerdgirl can find it.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kallend 2,148]

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here i am enjoying a friendly debate with you and you invoke the name of kallend? while his words may be right and even appicable in this instance...

Read my name and despair!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TrophyHusband 0]

its more of a shutter.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[jcd11235 0]

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in the absence of a survey, personal experience is all i have to go on. until i or someone else finds a reputable survey to the contrary, i stand by my opinion.

You may be confusing opinion with hypothesis. At any rate, your assertion remains unsubstantiated. Your personal experience tells us nothing about the views of the vast majority of OB/Gyns.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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its more of a shutter.

See that Kallend? He reads your name and closes the shutters. Your intellectual debating skills must carry with them power like a hurricane's.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!