nanook 1 #26 July 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotePlease, enlighten us. How was Iraq a threat to the US? Between gulf wars, Iraq has been funding terrorist groups that would go after us. The Navy sent many tomahawks to various terrorist camps during this period of time. You may have seen it in some of the news. A tamahawk strike here, tamahawk strike there. . . probably wasn't too important then. He has threatened us many times. He was persuing WMD's and had the program going till we invaded. Too scary for us. We found hundreds of tons of proof. We couldn't move it till Iraq was safe enough else the convoys would have been attacked and poisoned a huge swath of communities. It may have been on the news. It wasn't declassified till the shipment left the Gulf. There's more crap, but they may still be classified. We'll just have to wait till after the war. The propaganda model at its finest. Most of what I have read on this subject in SC including your "spends more money on military than all other countries combined" is in itself propaganda of belief. It's very important to those that use them who need to believe in the "bad USA". A lot of the facts taken out of proportion, or not even related. Very simplistic and easy to see that most of these people that prepare those products don't even work in the areas and have these fantastic imaginations about what's going on. It is silly and has no substance. I cannot help you there._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #27 July 21, 2008 QuoteSure they were. Feel free to share evidence supporting your latest assertion. QuoteOr aspirin factories.QuoteReports of a bombing are not indicative of a legitimate justification for the bombing. I am not a civillian. I wasn't at home watching tv during that period of time. I could care less if you don't believe me, but this is all you are going to get. QuoteOh really? Perhaps you can be more specific and identify a few of those "numerous times" that SH threatened the US Apparently, you were watching the news during the late 90's to early 2000's. QuoteYellow cake is not evidence of a WMD program. Okay, it was evidence of his huge chemistry expierment. We also know about when he gassed the Kurds up north. I remember reading about that in Time. That's an easy search._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #28 July 21, 2008 Face it.. War is something the human race is really good at and always has been. Given that reality.. would you rather live in the country that wins its wars.. or be one of the losers??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #29 July 21, 2008 QuoteI am not a civillian. I wasn't at home watching tv during that period of time. I could care less if you don't believe me, but this is all you are going to get. In other words, you've got no evidence to support your claims. No surprise there. QuoteQuoteOh really? Perhaps you can be more specific and identify a few of those "numerous times" that SH threatened the US Apparently, you were watching the news during the late 90's to early 2000's. Yes, I was watching/listening to the news. Are you claiming such threats would not have been newsworthy? QuoteQuoteYellow cake is not evidence of a WMD program. Okay, it was evidence of his huge chemistry expierment. Or, perhaps, a completely legal civilian nuclear energy program. Just because technology has multiple uses does not mean that everyone we don't like is using that technology for military/aggressive purposes. QuoteWe also know about when he gassed the Kurds up north. I remember reading about that in Time. That's an easy search. We also know that he got the chemical weapons from the US. What's your point?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #30 July 21, 2008 QuoteFace it.. War is something the human race is really good at and always has been. Given that reality.. would you rather live in the country that wins its wars.. or be one of the losers??? Seems like many of these people would rather be losers, or they are lying to further their own agenda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #31 July 21, 2008 >So in other words, pacifism doesn't work. Definitely true. Historically, neither does imperialism. We'd do well to emulate the example of Sweden, rather than the example of Rome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #32 July 21, 2008 The Romans had cooler uniforms.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #33 July 21, 2008 So, y'like boys in skirts (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 July 21, 2008 Aye.. as long as they are kilts......considering I am a not so wee scottish lass...........300 years removed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #35 July 22, 2008 Quote>So in other words, pacifism doesn't work. Definitely true. Historically, neither does imperialism. We'd do well to emulate the example of Sweden, rather than the example of Rome. After the U.S. wins it's wars, it gives the countries back to the defeated. That's not imperialism. Sweden does a good job of minding their own business, but on the other hand, they haven't helped liberate and free anyone from tyranny either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #36 July 22, 2008 QuoteSweden does a good job of minding their own business, but on the other hand, they haven't helped liberate and free anyone from tyranny either. define tyranny? here I'll do it for you; tyr·an·ny [tir-uh-nee] P–noun, plural -nies. 1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. 2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler. 3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler. 4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler. 5. undue severity or harshness. 6. a tyrannical act or proceeding. What is 'not' tyranny about the current US occupation of Iraq?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #37 July 22, 2008 QuoteIn other words, you've got no evidence to support your claims. No surprise there. Nope, no evidence. Original source. You can claim your win here if you want. But if you hear about this again, remember this conversation. QuoteYes, I was watching/listening to the news. Are you claiming such threats would not have been newsworthy? They were very newsworthy. It was all over the news. QuoteWe also know that he got the chemical weapons from the US. What's your point? He's willing and has used them on people. What relevance is the source of the weaponry? We're talking capability, Intent and opportunity here_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #38 July 22, 2008 QuoteBut if you hear about this again, remember this conversation. That's a pretty big "if." Huge. QuoteIt was all over the news. Feel free to provide some documentation. QuoteQuoteWe also know that he got the chemical weapons from the US. What's your point? He's willing and has used them on people. What relevance is the source of the weaponry? We're talking capability, Intent and opportunity here Why do you suppose we provided the chemical weapons? Hint: so he could use them on people. However, the chemical weapons have a shelf life. The capability no longer existed. The opportunity was not there. We knew it, and he knew it. If he had intent, he would have had a weapons program in place to replace the old weapons. You can try to justify the invasion all you want, but at the end of the day, it was a big bully country picking on a smaller, essentially defenseless country. It was a waste of resources and a demonstration of poor leadership on the part of the CINC.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ErricoMalatesta 0 #39 July 22, 2008 Quote Most of what I have read on this subject in SC including your "spends more money on military than all other countries combined" is in itself propaganda of belief. Actually its an empirical fact but you can ignore that if you like. Quote It's very important to those that use them who need to believe in the "bad USA". The US government is bad. I don't need to 'believe in it' anymore than I need to 'believe' other powerful nation states are bad. The difference is I'm not a US citizen or an idiot so I have no hangups about pointing out just how much genocide the US government was responsible for in the last century or so, which was most of it. You on the other hand live in a world of childish magic where countries are 'good', aggression is defence and everyone you attack was a bogyman about to get you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #40 July 22, 2008 Quote What is 'not' tyranny about the current US occupation of Iraq? The existence of an Iraqi-led democratic, parliamentary-style federal government based on a civil government (Iraq Constitution) created by Iraqis and approved by referendum (i.e., vote of the Iraqis). VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #41 July 22, 2008 QuoteQuote What is 'not' tyranny about the current US occupation of Iraq? The existence of an Iraqi-led democratic, parliamentary-style federal government based on a civil government (Iraq Constitution) created by Iraqis and approved by referendum (i.e., vote of the Iraqis). VR/Marg Sorry, but your words will fall on deaf ears there. Some people are so focused on their hate of other countries that there is no way they will listen to the opposite argument. You're just a "seppo American" - admit that you are the embodiment of evil and then you will be "right." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #42 July 22, 2008 QuoteYou can try to justify the invasion all you want, but at the end of the day, it was a big bully country picking on a smaller, essentially defenseless country. It was a waste of resources and a demonstration of poor leadership on the part of the CINC. After all this, this your motivation? Searching out for the Bully? Are you so motivated by percieved weakling beat-downs just for the sake of beat-downs that you will blanket any information (if not mine) that points to reality? High school is over. Geez, sorry you got picked on, man. Do you really think all these programs would be in place if we were here for the oil?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #43 July 22, 2008 QuoteAfter all this, this your motivation? Searching out for the Bully? No, that was W's claim, to stop the bully that posed an imminent threat to the US. Except Saddam posed no threat to the US in reality. The US was the bully in the scenario. We invaded and destroyed the infrastructure of a weaker country without good reason. QuoteAre you so motivated by percieved weakling beat-downs just for the sake of beat-downs that you will blanket any information (if not mine) that points to reality? No. Are you so paranoid that you believe any country that doesn't do things exactly like the US poses a imminent grave threat to freedom, democracy, and/or the US? QuoteHigh school is over. Yes, it is. It's time to set aside the "USA is absolutely good" propaganda and take a look at reality. Sometimes we are the good guys. Sometimes we are the bad guys. When we invaded Iraq, we were the bad guys. Saddam may not have been a great guy, but we were no better by invading. QuoteDo you really think all these programs would be in place if we were here for the oil? Are you really naïve enough to believe the oil has nothing to do with it?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
