akarunway 1 #26 July 20, 2008 QuotePainting them with a pretty wide brush. There are plenty of 18 & 19 year olds who know what is going on and are mature for their age. There are plenty of 20 year olds and older who are clueless and have know idea what is happening outside of their bubble. Since there is no way to bring in "competancy" into the voting equation, the simple solution is the age requirement. As someone pointed out, since they can die for thier country at 18, shouldnt they have the right to vote for the government who is going to put them in harms way? Blue ones.And drink liquor.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #27 July 20, 2008 QuoteIf you can go to war for your country at 18 you SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRINK. I never understood that argument. What does being of legal age to enter into a contract have to do with being allowed to ingest poison? I fully support lowering the minimum legal drinking age to eighteen, or, better yet, sixteen, but I fail to see what the ability to drink has to do with the ability to serve. One has nothing to do with the other.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #28 July 20, 2008 Quote Quote If you can go to war for your country at 18 you SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRINK. I never understood that argument. What does being of legal age to enter into a contract have to do with being allowed to ingest poison? I fully support lowering the minimum legal drinking age to eighteen, or, better yet, sixteen, but I fail to see what the ability to drink has to do with the ability to serve. One has nothing to do with the other. DUH. If you can be forced to kill people you sure as fuck outta be able to legally drink or ingest any fuckin thing you want.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #29 July 20, 2008 Quote DUH. If you can be forced to kill people you sure as fuck outta be able to legally drink or ingest any fuckin thing you want.First, it's a volunteer army. Second, being able to enter into a contract has nothing to do with being able to legally drink (or not).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #30 July 20, 2008 Quote Quote Quote If you can go to war for your country at 18 you SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRINK. I never understood that argument. What does being of legal age to enter into a contract have to do with being allowed to ingest poison? I fully support lowering the minimum legal drinking age to eighteen, or, better yet, sixteen, but I fail to see what the ability to drink has to do with the ability to serve. One has nothing to do with the other. DUH. If you can be forced to kill people you sure as fuck outta be able to legally drink or ingest any fuckin thing you want. It's a moot argument in Afghanistan or Iraq. No drinking out here whatsoever. Completely banned. This is Betty Ford on . . .er. . .near-crack. An 18 year old service member in the states isn't exactly pulling missions. In the Navy, if you are in a country where the legal limit is 18, the CO allows you to drink. Don't know about Army, though. So some that serve do drink at 18. Gotta be overseas though. Personally, I don't want people who are still in high school being able to buy alchohol._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #31 July 21, 2008 Quote Quote DUH. If you can be forced to kill people you sure as fuck outta be able to legally drink or ingest any fuckin thing you want. First, it's a volunteer army. Second, being able to enter into a contract has nothing to do with being able to legally drink (or not). It's not always a volunteer army. We do have the ability to draft. If someone is of an age where their country considers them adult enough to be drafted and sent off to war, they should also be considered adult enough to vote and drink alcohol and purchase weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #32 July 21, 2008 QuoteIt's not always a volunteer army. True, we have had the draft in the past. Of course, the drinking age has not always been twenty-one, either. It's a bogus comparison. QuoteWe do have the ability to draft. If someone is of an age where their country considers them adult enough to be drafted and sent off to war, they should also be considered adult enough to vote and drink alcohol and purchase weapons. And everybody that pays taxes should be able to vote and run for office. Yet eight year old Skippy keeps getting turned away at the ballot box. Why? There's nothing in the Constitution that forbids him from voting. Drinking legally and entering into a contract have about as much to do with each other as someone's favorite color and what they had for dinner. I'm all for lowering the legal drinking age to 16-18, or even lower with parental supervision. But the reason proposed is non-sensical. If we're going to do it, we should do it for the right reasons (e.g. countries with lower drinking ages have lower rates of alcohol abuse). Incidentally, I've yet to meet a soldier who was unable to drink due to their age. They may be limited in the manner in which they obtain alcohol, or where they can drink, but not typically whether or not they can drink without fear of discipline.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #33 July 21, 2008 The thread is drifting - we're talking about VOTING age, not age to drink, or drive, or skydive, or contract, or have consensual sex, or be a model in a frontal nude photo. VOTING. I was a teenager during the Vietnam War (which ended in 1974), and when the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 (also in the 70's). The debate over the draft was huge and often vicious. And it cross-pollinated with the debate over the voting age. The slogan at the time was, "Old enough to fight; old enough to vote". In other words, if the government is going to have the right to conscript 18 year olds and send them involuntarily to war, those 18 year olds - through the vote - should be permitted to have a say as citizens as to who will be in the government that will make those decisions. That wasn't the only argument for lowering the voting age in the US to 18; but as someone who personally lived that history as it happened, I can tell you that that particular issue of the time was probably the principal initial catalyst. As long as the government has the right to draft people under 21 (and it currently does), or to activate under-21 personnel in the Reserves or National Guards, or to "stop loss" under-21 personnel from leaving the military, those people should have the right to vote for who will be in that government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #34 July 21, 2008 QuoteAs long as the government has the right to draft people under 21 (and it currently does), or to activate under-21 personnel in the Reserves or National Guards, or to "stop loss" under-21 personnel from leaving the military, those people should have the right to vote for who will be in that government. Agreed. I've also not noticed 18-21 year olds being any more or less informed about the relevant issues than older age groups. That's not to say that they are well informed. Sadly, being well informed is the exception rather than the rule, at least in the US.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #35 July 21, 2008 Quote Quote DUH. If you can be forced to kill people you sure as fuck outta be able to legally drink or ingest any fuckin thing you want. First, it's a volunteer army. Second, being able to enter into a contract has nothing to do with being able to legally drink (or not).Donno. When I went in VOLUNTEERY in 78 drinking age was 18 in Florida. AND you could drink on the bases at 17. I reiterate. If you can kill for you country you sure as hell outta be able to get funkin drunk.[url]I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 July 21, 2008 QuoteI reiterate. If you can kill for you country you sure as hell outta be able to get funkin drunk. I understood the assertion the first time I read it. What I don't understand is how or why the two things are related. One cannot run for Congress or President when they are eighteen (or even twenty-one). That is far more relevant than the minimum legal drinking age. Should we pass a Constitutional Amendment so eighteen year olds can run for President? That would make much more sense than using military service as justification to lower the legal drinking age.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites