Above the law. One more time

[akarunway 1]

I'm so sick of this fucker. Can't wait for Jan. Oh shit. I forgot. Politics as usual in the USA. Two choices and niether is worth a fuck.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080716/D91V6UK00.html

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[rushmc 23]

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I'm so sick of this fucker. Can't wait for Jan. Oh shit. I forgot. Politics as usual in the USA. Two choices and niether is worth a fuck.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080716/D91V6UK00.html

It is amazing how you dont get it. Let alone how funny it is.

Day one, of the "investigation" Fitzgerald (and he admits it) found out two things.
1 Who did out her (but that was not really a crime because)
2 She was not considered an operative.

This whole topic is a funny fucking joke

Now, add to this the fact that the 911 commision says her hubby's report actually supported the admin claim and we have BDS on parade

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

5 more and he gets the tie... but will he have enough time?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,120]

>This whole topic is a funny fucking joke

I wonder how funny Scooter Libby thinks it is. (You know, the guy convicted of covering it up.)

[nerdgirl 0]

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Now, add to this the fact that the 911 commision says her hubby's report actually supported the admin claim and we have BDS on parade

Marc -

Laying aside, momentarily, the specific assertions, I think you may be confusing the “WMD Intelligence Commission” (aka the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction) with the 9-11 Commission?

The 9-11 Commission Report issued by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States doesn’t say anything about Iraq-Niger-yellow cake-Ambassador Wilson.

W/r/t the WMD Intelligence Commission’s findings on attempts to procure uranium ore & yellow cake (personally I prefer chocolate cake ) from Niger, most of the blame was directed toward CIA’s WINPAC, which is part of the CIA DI (Directorate of Intelligence). These are the folks who do intelligence analysis on proliferation of WMD & missiles and are the same folks that got the blame for the aluminum tube debacle. Secondary culpability was assigned to CIA DO (aka Directorate of Operations, the ‘spies’ and those who do intelligence collection) and the National Intelligence Officer for Strategic and Nuclear Programs (NIO/SNP).

Can you point to a passage in the WMD Commission Report that suggests what you describe?

I’m still curious as to the origins of the interpretation and analysis you described? Thanks.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[riddler 0]

Hysterical. The whole thing started because Dubya really needed a good excuse to go to war in Iraq. So he made up a story about Saddam trying to get Uranium in Africa. Slight chuckle there. Then US ambassador Joseph Wilson went there to check it out and came back to tell Bush that it wasn't true, and next thing you know his wife is outed as a CIA agent by the VPs chief of staff (Libby). That's a nice laugh - way to stick it to 'em. Of course, after the jury found Libby guilty of perjury and obstruction, and another jury sentenced him to prison, Bush commuted his sentence, something that no other president has ever done before. Now it's really starting to get funny.

Meanwhile, Dubya moves forward with his plan to invade Iraq, started on completely false pretenses. 8 years later, after 3 trillion dollars of damage and 4,000 American lives, Americans are just starting to see the whole picture, and the liar declares executive privilege to cover it all up. All those good people dead - I would try to cover it up too! That really makes me roll on the floor, laughing.

I'm so glad we have a president we can laugh with while our soldiers are getting killed for no reason. Especially after that last president that lied about getting a blow job - now that's just not decent.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[nerdgirl 0]

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So he made up a story about Saddam trying to get Uranium in Africa. Slight chuckle there. .

For clarification, in the early 1980s, Iraq did obtain unrefined uranium ore from Niger. FOIA obtained documents. It, combined with additional unenriched uranium ore procured from Portugal, was stored at Tuwaitha. Although technically, unenriched uranium ore and yellowcake (which is *still* unenriched) are subject to international safeguards, at the time Iraq obtained it Niger was not party to NPT and Portugal did not have safeguards. Iraq notified the IAEA of the receipt of the early 1980's uranium ore from Niger and Portugal. That was what was recently shipped to Canada (for whom it was a very good deal, btw).

After Gulf War I, the IAEA inspected and had ongoing monitoring through UNSCOM & UNMOVIC.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kelpdiver 2]

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8 years later,

I know it seems endless, but it's been 5 years. After 8 years, Obama will be past his first midterm election.

[sfc 1]

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I'm so sick of this fucker. Can't wait for Jan. Oh shit. I forgot. Politics as usual in the USA. Two choices and niether is worth a fuck.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080716/D91V6UK00.html

me too, it is amazing how much he has fucked up everything possible, what I don't get is why some people can get their heads out of where it don't shine and see all the damage he has done to this country.
And yes CGOBJ and lied to congress to cover it up, and I don't give a flying fuck about that, it has nothing to do with bush and does not go any way to justify bush's actions.
He has walked all over the constitution, he fucked up in iraq, he is fucking up Afghanistan (insufficient resources) he fucked up the economy in so many ways, hes doubled the national debt, just to mention a few and the next president is going to have to figure out how to get out of the worst recession that we have had since the 1920s.
And still some people will support him because they are dick heads who are too proud to admit they were wrong or so single issue focused that they cant see the whole picture.
I can't wait until January and the recovery can begin. I think both candidates individually have more integrity than the entire bush administration.
When i came to the USA I supported the idiot, I am embarrassed to have made such an error of judgment.

[kallend 2,150]

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Now, add to this the fact that the 911 commision says her hubby's report actually supported the admin claim and we have BDS on parade

Marc -

Laying aside, momentarily, the specific assertions, I think you may be confusing the .....

Marc confused? Oh the humanity! Say it ain't so.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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I'm so sick of this fucker. Can't wait for Jan. Oh shit. I forgot. Politics as usual in the USA. Two choices and niether is worth a fuck.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080716/D91V6UK00.html

Let's not forget that one of Bush's first actions after his 2001 inauguration was to sign an executive order preventing the FOIA release of his dad's presidential records.

And then there are the many signing statements. I suspect you're right, the man really does believe that he is above the law.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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>This whole topic is a funny fucking joke

I wonder how funny Scooter Libby thinks it is. (You know, the guy convicted of covering it up.)

Oh, oh, was he convicted of outing Plame??

Hell no! Do you know why? Hell yes you do. He was not convicted of outing Plame because she was not outed!!

And tell me sir, why would an "investigation" continue AFTER THE DAM PROSOCUTER KNEW NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITED??????

It is a procedural crime. One that can happen because of time. The whole dam thing was a travesty and I hope he is pardoned. As he should be. If he is not pardoned, I predict he will be cleared on appeal.

You lefties are so desperated for some kind of crime your emotions affect good sense

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Hysterical. The whole thing started because Dubya really needed a good excuse to go to war in Iraq. So he made up a story about Saddam trying to get Uranium in Africa. Slight chuckle there. Then US ambassador Joseph Wilson went there to check it out and came back to tell Bush that it wasn't true, and next thing you know his wife is outed as a CIA agent by the VPs chief of staff (Libby). That's a nice laugh - way to stick it to 'em. Of course, after the jury found Libby guilty of perjury and obstruction, and another jury sentenced him to prison, Bush commuted his sentence, something that no other president has ever done before. Now it's really starting to get funny.

Meanwhile, Dubya moves forward with his plan to invade Iraq, started on completely false pretenses. 8 years later, after 3 trillion dollars of damage and 4,000 American lives, Americans are just starting to see the whole picture, and the liar declares executive privilege to cover it all up. All those good people dead - I would try to cover it up too! That really makes me roll on the floor, laughing.

I'm so glad we have a president we can laugh with while our soldiers are getting killed for no reason. Especially after that last president that lied about getting a blow job - now that's just not decent.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

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>This whole topic is a funny fucking joke

I wonder how funny Scooter Libby thinks it is. (You know, the guy convicted of covering it up.)

Oh, oh, was he convicted of outing Plame??

He wasn't charged with outing Plame. He was convicted of perjury, lying to the FBI and obstruction of justice in order to impede the investigation into who outed Plame.

You know, covering it up.

[pirana 0]

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I'm so sick of this fucker. Can't wait for Jan. Oh shit. I forgot. Politics as usual in the USA. Two choices and niether is worth a fuck.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080716/D91V6UK00.html

me too, it is amazing how much he has fucked up everything possible, what I don't get is why some people can get their heads out of where it don't shine and see all the damage he has done to this country.
And yes CGOBJ and lied to congress to cover it up, and I don't give a flying fuck about that, it has nothing to do with bush and does not go any way to justify bush's actions.
He has walked all over the constitution, he fucked up in iraq, he is fucking up Afghanistan (insufficient resources) he fucked up the economy in so many ways, hes doubled the national debt, just to mention a few and the next president is going to have to figure out how to get out of the worst recession that we have had since the 1920s.
And still some people will support him because they are dick heads who are too proud to admit they were wrong or so single issue focused that they cant see the whole picture.
I can't wait until January and the recovery can begin. I think both candidates individually have more integrity than the entire bush administration.
When i came to the USA I supported the idiot, I am embarrassed to have made such an error of judgment.

Yeah, I'm usually fairly pragmatic in my seeking to understand the momentum of history and large change-resistant systems in which these people operate; but this guy seems to have erred so badly so many times on a personal level that there really is no such excuse.

It would be interesting to see what history has to say about him from a distance. My guess is that it is going to be very bad.

I strongly agree that the difference in principles and level of integrity regardless of which candidate is elected will be completely different than what we have seen from Bush. He's more of a slightly ignorant but benevolent dicatator (I know this will hurt but I know what's good for you, I think), than he is a true leader.

Let's hope we've learned our lesson about electing people with a dynastic approach to high office.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Marc, why don't you answer nerdgirl's questions?

[lawrocket 3]

Let me add a tint of pragmatism and real life to this. From a legal sense, objections are made all the time. Let's say that you may have a valid objection. You have a certain timeframe to make it. If you don't, you cannot go back later and say, "I should have objected" because it is waived. Instead, you make it and then work it out.

Furthermore, we needn't look too deep into history to find claims of executive privilege. Probably the first really sweeping use was by Truman (probably one of the single most power-hungry POTUS's out there - I mean, looking at this guy's history). Eisenhower used it. Nixon was the most famous.

Clinton attempted to use it in the Lewinskyinvestigation - and lost.

Dubya has just taken it to higher levels.

It's not that I agree with it in substance, it's just that it should be placed into proper perspective.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[riddler 0]

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I know it seems endless, but it's been 5 years.

I was referring to the timeline that that Bush starting making the case to go to war in Iraq - Dec 2001, which is seven years, I guess, not eight.

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Iraq did obtain unrefined uranium ore from Niger

Saying Iraq was going to nuke the world with unrefined ore is like saying every American farmer is going to bomb federal buildings with all the fertilizer they have. Raw materials are a long way from weapons of mass destruction. Probably Saddam hoped one day to actually be able to refine it, but other countries have gotten much closer (and in the case of North Korea, succeeded).

But hey, if raw materials are an excuse to invade a country, I guess we now have an excuse to invade Australia, Canada, former Soviet republics, Africa and South America. Uranium ore is aplenty in those countries. Bush invaded Iraq for one reason - because he wanted to.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[rushmc 23]

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>This whole topic is a funny fucking joke

I wonder how funny Scooter Libby thinks it is. (You know, the guy convicted of covering it up.)

Oh, oh, was he convicted of outing Plame??

He wasn't charged with outing Plame. He was convicted of perjury, lying to the FBI and obstruction of justice in order to impede the investigation into who outed Plame.

You know, covering it up.

Ok, so tell me, why would a prosocuter proceed with any investigation if he found out day one that no law had been broken. (the one he was specificly hired to investigate)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I may have mixed up the reports. When I get a minute I will look it up yet again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169424/posts

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon49.htm

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/005191.php

http://windsofchange.net/archives/005191.php#joewilson

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=Joe+Wilson+report+to+911+commission&btnG=Search

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[nerdgirl 0]

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Iraq did obtain unrefined uranium ore from Niger

Saying Iraq was going to nuke the world with unrefined ore ...

But hey, if raw materials are an excuse to invade a country ....

Would you explain how you derived those interpretations from what I wrote?

Your comments, to which I replied, were less than clear whether or not you understood/were aware that Iraq had in the early 1980s procured uranium ore and yellowcake (they are not the same thing) from Niger and Portugal. Btw: Iraq also obtained uranium dioxide (low enriched, >2%) from Brazil and Italy (declared one to IAEA but not the other) and and LEU (~20%) from Russia and France for research reactors in the 1980s.

During the 1980s, Iraq tried to produce yellowcake from that unenriched uranium ore at Al-Qa’im & Ibn-Sina’. The results were poor to complete failures. Enriched material that was in Iraq was removed by the IAEA through UNSCOM.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169424/posts

"1)The British government's independent investigation into the Iraq/Africa uranium connection confirmed President Bush's claims on Iraq seeking nuclear material."

The Butler Commission Report -- I'm guessing that's to what this anonymous poster to another forum is referring -- did not do that. It's just wrong. It's like saying that the US Constitution mentions gay marriage.

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2) The bi-partisan 9/11 Commission's report pointed out Wilson's dishonesty about the assessment of the information in Niger, but also his lies about how he achieved the post in the first place. "

You're quoting from someone else's blog post here that does not understand that the 9-11 Commission Report was about the 9-11 attacks *not* Iraq.

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http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon49.htm

Ditto: You're citing someone else's blog post here that does not understand that the 9-11 Commission Report was about the 9-11 attacks *not* Iraq.

Here's a link to the 9-11 Commision Report. Check for yourself. Do a search. There's no mention of Joe Wilson and no mention of yellowcake.

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http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/005191.php

The title at the top of this blog posting is "The Senate Intelligence Committee Report".

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http://windsofchange.net/archives/005191.php#joewilson

This is a jump down the same blog page as the previous link, titled "The Senate Intelligence Committee Report".

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=Joe+Wilson+report+to+911+commission&btnG=Search

[Andy9o8 2]

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Ok, so tell me, why would a prosocuter prosecutor proceed with any investigation if he found out day one that no law had been broken. (the one he was specificly hired to investigate)

Ah. So I take it you were deeply offended by Ken Starr's proceeding with the Whitewater investigation of the Clintons, once he realized there was no evidence of the alleged corrupt real estate deals prior to entering the White House (the one he was specificly hired to investigate), so as to pursue charges that Horny Bill had fibbed rather than admit he'd had an extramarital affair after he'd become President - which of course was not even tangentially related to the subject matter of Starr's original commission. Well, I was offended, too.

But to your question. First of all, nice try on "day one" - there was no "day one" epiphany, or even close to one. However, in the course of investigating the outing of Plame, prosecutors discovered evidence that White House officials had apparently lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an attempt to thwart the investigation into the Plame outing. They were then duty-bound to investigate those crimes, too, which WERE related to their original commission. (Much like most of the Watergate defendants were convicted not of the break-in, but of the cover-up...of the break-in. It was the cover-up that brought Nixon down, and it was the cover-up that brough Libby down.)

[rushmc 23]

Fitzgerald admitted he knew who "outed" Plame the first day.

Just a fact

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln