kallend 2,146 #101 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #102 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #103 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. Was that another "factual error", or are your editorial comments automatically elevated to the status of "Fact" nowadays?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Capt.Slog 0 #104 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. Was that another "factual error", or are your editorial comments automatically elevated to the status of "Fact" nowadays? Are you suggesting that gun shops don't have guns and ammo in them? If so , it is a damn funny gun shop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #105 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Hey, Here's a review of it for you. Seems customers don't like the new owner very much.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #106 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? QuoteQuote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 5 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mnealtx 0 #103 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. Was that another "factual error", or are your editorial comments automatically elevated to the status of "Fact" nowadays?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Capt.Slog 0 #104 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. Was that another "factual error", or are your editorial comments automatically elevated to the status of "Fact" nowadays? Are you suggesting that gun shops don't have guns and ammo in them? If so , it is a damn funny gun shop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #105 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Hey, Here's a review of it for you. Seems customers don't like the new owner very much.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #106 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? QuoteQuote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 5 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Capt.Slog 0 #104 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. Was that another "factual error", or are your editorial comments automatically elevated to the status of "Fact" nowadays? Are you suggesting that gun shops don't have guns and ammo in them? If so , it is a damn funny gun shop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #105 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Hey, Here's a review of it for you. Seems customers don't like the new owner very much.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #106 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? QuoteQuote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 5 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,146 #105 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Hey, Here's a review of it for you. Seems customers don't like the new owner very much.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #106 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? QuoteQuote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 5 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mnealtx 0 #106 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? QuoteQuote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 5 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 2,146 #107 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote My mistake, as I didn't read your article before making my post. Just about every post you've made in this thread had one or more logical fallacies or factual errors in it. Maybe you SHOULD read BEFORE hitting "post". Maybe YOU should explain how "a shop full of guns and ammunition didn't do them any good" *isn't* a logical fallacy. They were shot dead in their own GUN SHOP. Maybe you think being shot dead is good, but most of us don't share that view. That was easy. Thank you, Captain Obvious - NOW, perhaps you can explain to us all, with your infinite wisdom, just *HOW* a gun that is unloaded and locked in a cabinet would be of ANY use in a self-defense situation? For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Quote Quote Speaking of FACTUAL errors... I didn't see your "shopful of guns and ammo" quote in the link you provided. ? Well, let's see, it was (and still is, A GUN SHOP. It sold (and still sells under new ownership) GUNS AND AMMUNITION, from stock. Well, THAT was easy too. Yes, it does... but your "FACTUAL" quote doesn't seem to appear in the story - an oversight on their part, I'm sure.... or just maybe an editorial comment from someone that uses misdirection and leading comments to try and discredit posts by anyone that is pro-2nd amendment. I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock policy in their article on the murders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #108 June 29, 2008 Quote For the Nth time, please provide YOUR SOURCE for your claim that all the guns were in locked cabinets. Perhaps you should provide YOUR SOURCE for those "loaded guns" that YOU mentioned - perhaps (as I mentioned before) you can point me to just WHERE in the Illinois state law it allows that. Quote Please note that unlike you, I have made NO claim about how the guns were stored. Shall I point you back (again) to your comments about the loaded guns and the range, or can you find it yourself? Quote I think you forget that this is my local gun shop. I have been in it. And you haven't. Of course if you wish to call me a liar, I'm sure the greenies would be interested. And THIS statement has exactly WHAT to do with your editorial comments, how? Since it's local, though... why don't you get us some pictures of those racks and racks of loaded guns on the walls...that'd be proof enough for any of us, I think. Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #109 June 29, 2008 Quote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. I point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. Or just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. Here's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #110 June 29, 2008 QuoteQuote Conversely, you *could* just admit that you were editorializing and that a gun that is locked away or unloaded is of no use in a self-defense scenario. Please cite a source that shows all the guns at the time of the shooting homicides were locked away or unloaded. I have asked politely several times. YOU are the one that is alleging that they were of no use - for them to be of use, they have to be in a condition such that they could be used for defense - loaded and accessible. I've asked you several times to provide proof that the guns were usable for defense - do you plan to provide an answer? QuoteI point out YET AGAIN that I have made NO CLAIM about the state of the guns and therefore do not need to prove anything. I refer you back to your posts talking about how the guns did no good and your post about the range - sounds like you were making plenty of claims to me - at least until you get called on it. Your "I don't have to prove my claims, but you do" mantra is wearing a bit thin, professor. QuoteOr just admit that, unlike me, you have never been in the Glenwood gun shop and are just pissing and whining for the sake of doing it. As I said above - posting a picture of the guns readily to hand and loaded would be plenty of proof that I'm wrong - after all, you evidently hang out there. QuoteHere's an idea for you: build yourself a time machine, go back 10 years and ask the newspaper reporters to be sure to put a sentence about the store's stock and display policy in their article on the shooting murders. And here's one for YOU - quit posting editorial comments and opinioins and trying to pass them off as fact.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #111 June 29, 2008 Mike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? 3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. 4. Either call me a liar, or back off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 June 29, 2008 QuoteMike, 1. You are now misusing "editorialize". YOU are editorializing about the value (or lack of value) of unloaded guns for self defense. I have simply made factual statements about a homicide in my local gun shop. Maybe you should add "editorialize" to "strawman" and "analogy" that you need to look up. Nope - I just want you to (for once) "put up or shut up". Good to see that you've decided to elevate your own opinion to the level of "fact" though. Quote2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. I make no claim about their accessibility. I am answering YOUR claim that they "did no good" and pointed out the conditions where they COULD have been of use. I then asked you AGAIN to confirm or refute my information, since you had claimed in your post that "they were of no good". QuoteI DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every single range and gunshop that I have been to, the guns were inaccessible / unloaded until you were actually on the range. It's good to know that in a gun-banning area like the vicinity of Chicago, that any Joe can walk in off the street and grab a loaded gun off the wall, however. I think *NOW* I see where you get your rants about lax gun laws from, now - maybe you should have your local legislator propose a state law that all guns displayed in a gunshop be unloaded / inaccessible. Quote3. I have given you direct eye-witness evidence that the GUN SHOP was stocked with GUNS and AMMUNITION whenever I went in there, both before and after the homicides. What a surprise! I can't imagine why you want to quibble about the merchandize in a GUN SHOP, it just makes you look silly. But yet, you STILL can't answer whether they were loaded or not... WHO looks silly, again? Quote4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #113 June 29, 2008 Quote 2. YOU are claiming that they were all locked away and unloaded, but refuse to give any source for your information. He bases his side on established state laws that dictate the terms by which gun shops do business. For obvious reasons, customers aren't handling loaded weapons while making their purchase decisions. In California, most employees do openly carry. Does Illinois permit that or not is a simple question. Other than that, there are no useful (loaded) weapons available in a gun store. Quote I make no claim about their accessibility. I DO claim that loaded accessible guns are commonly found at ranges like the one at the Glenwood shop. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT TOO? How many ranges have you been at where the guns were inaccessible and unloaded? Every one. You try to load one before you get to your lane and those armed employees will be on you. Telling (not asking) you to put it down, and then leave. Quote 4. Either call me a liar, or back off. Given that you openly and often invite that, the greenies really have no business sanctioning people for doing it. Good for you that they also hate guns. --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #114 June 29, 2008 Yup...I had a blast, thanks for asking!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #115 June 29, 2008 Quote Quote --- I hope you guys had some actual fun today - unlike someone else's comment, reading a debate about whether or not Kallend made an implication from this incident (well, duh) is pretty dull stuff. Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #116 June 29, 2008 Quote Please feel free to skip this thread. It's a free country Not if you had your way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #117 June 30, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I also do not understand the RELEVANCE of the gun store murder STORY. Yes, is a statement of fact but what is the point? It is also a statement of fact that there are many instances of the availability of a parachute during a skydive not preventing a fatality...sometimes its all about the timing of your actions. To what analogy are you referring? Who made an analogy? ??????? You complain of not understanding an analogy, but the only analogy in the thread appears to be the one you made to a parachute. Do you often complain about yourself? Actually I complain about myself quite frequently. Okay, I give in. I cannot compete with your verbal linguistics and knowledge of proper grammer and sentence structure (and likely spelling). So, can you answer a simple question? What does the story you told about the murder of the gun shop owner(s) you knew have to do with the topic of this thread? Seriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Did you read post #1? Did you see my name mentioned? Did you read my response? etc., etc., etc. As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium we use to communicate ideas. If you can't be bothered to use them properly, not my fault. Damn, I even concede defeat and ask a straightforward question, and you STILL refuse to answer? As far as you lecture on words being the primary medium of communication, you are correct. However, I could have asked the same question to a 12 year old and they would have understood exactly what I was asking them - I am assuming that a Professor would have known exactly what I was asking as well. You are a fellow skydiver, and at one time listed my home DZ as yours (WTS) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so you know (and I am sure you don't care), when you play these word games you come across as a big fucking asshole . Not saying you are as I don't know you. I bet you would be fun to debate in person though As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #118 June 30, 2008 "As far as words are concerned, the ARE the primary medium" THE are????? Seems you are not immune to improper use of/spelling of words yourself... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #119 June 30, 2008 QuoteSeriously, I am asking what your post means in context with the subject matter of this thread... Bingo!!! The point was to trash the thread. And it worked very well........ "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
