For Those Not Following

[rushmc 23]

If I remember correctly, some in this group have gotten court backing to withhold taxes until resolved. Those dollars are in escrow.(I have not looked lately so this may have changed but I do not think so)

June, 2008

Letter to the Editor: SHORT VERSION (247 words)


Letter to the Editor:
re: The Plan to Restore Constitutional Order
June 30, 2008 may be remembered in history as the day Americans began, in earnest, the moral and solemn process of holding their (servant) Government accountable to the Constitution -- under threat of withdrawal of allegiance, support and tax money.

Next Monday, approximately 1200 American citizens will begin the process of exercising a profound, but little-known, 800-year old Right first articulated in Magna Carta by formally serving a "Legal Notice and Demand" for Redress of Grievances upon the President, the Attorney General and every Member of Congress at their local district offices.

Incredibly, academic research since 1986 makes clear the Right to Petition for Redress is NOT a redundant statement of the Right of Speech. It is in fact, the individual exercise of Popular Sovereignty. Here's what the Founders sitting as the first Congress wrote:

“If money is wanted by Rulers
who have in any manner oppressed the People,
they may retain it until their grievances are redressed,
and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised
petitions or disturbing the public tranquility.”

Journals of the Continental Congress, 1:105-113

Demanding an official response within forty (40) days, the Notice includes seven (7) Petitions for Redress of Grievances regarding substantial violations of our Constitution including the war, money, privacy, arms and tax clauses.

If Liberty and Constitutional Order are to survive peacefully, it is imperative that the People learn about and exercise the unalienable Right of Redress.

For details about the Plan to Restore Constitutional Order, visit: www.givemeliberty.org/revolution.
(signed)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Robert L. Schulz, Chairman
We The People Foundation
For Constitutional Education, Inc.
2458 Ridge Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
June 30, 2008

Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton
529 14th St., NW, Ste. 900
Washington, D.C. 20045
Dear Rep. Norton;
THIS IS A LEGAL NOTICE & DEMAND for an official Response to the attached First Amendment
Petitions for Redress of Grievances regarding significant and ongoing violations of the Constitution
by the U.S. Government.
Per the text of the Petitions for Redress as well as the unalienable Rights protected by the First and Ninth
Amendments, you are respectfully instructed, as an elected official of the Government, to provide an
official and substantive response to these Petitions for Redress by August 8, 2008.
As a courtesy, I would ask you to please contact me by July 7, 2008 (by email and by return mail) to
inform me of your intent as to whether you will, or will not, provide your formal, official response within
forty (40) days from today, to the questions embedded in each of the seven (7) Petitions for Redress of
Grievances (see attached CD-ROM).
With all due respect, I ask you not to respond by sending me "off-the-shelf" policy papers, form letters,
or other "canned" materials prepared by you, the Congressional Research Service, or any other entity,
including Executive agencies.
I expect your official response will consist of specific, single-word answers to each of the questions as
they have been posed to you in the Petitions, in your official capacity as an elected official, duly sworn to
uphold and defend the Constitution. To repeat, I am requesting your personal “admit” or “deny” response
to each and every one of the questions contained in the seven (7) Petitions for Redress.
The Right to Redress is a fundamental, unalienable Right, expressly protected by the Constitution.
As an elected representative of We the People, you are inherently obligated to respond.
Something is very, very wrong with America. Our Republic stands upon a precipice. Within a very short
time we will either restore Constitutional Order or our nation - at least as we know it - will cease to exist.
If the People cannot hold their servant Government accountable to the Law, there is no realm of abuse
beyond the reach of the Government, and a future of unchecked despotism will become our fate.
The fact remains that the problems and ills that now plague our once great nation are the direct result
of our Government's abandonment of its fundamental duties and restraints under the Constitution.
As part of that servant Government, you have a personal - and Constitutional - duty to answer for its acts.
Sincerely yours,
____________________
Robert L. Schulz
Chairman, We The People Foundation
bob@GiveMeLiberty.org

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

If I remember correctly, some in this group have gotten court backing to withhold taxes until resolved. Those dollars are in escrow.(I have not looked lately so this may have changed but I do not think so)

And knowing nothing about it, I doubt this assetion greatly, so lacking evidence to the contrary, I'm going to believe this is 7th hand information that a US court is permitting someone not to pay taxes on the BS claim that taxation is illegal.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

If I remember correctly, some in this group have gotten court backing to withhold taxes until resolved. Those dollars are in escrow.(I have not looked lately so this may have changed but I do not think so)

And knowing nothing about it, I doubt this assetion greatly, so lacking evidence to the contrary, I'm going to believe this is 7th hand information that a US court is permitting someone not to pay taxes on the BS claim that taxation is illegal.

They are saying they do not have to pay taxes (if you would take the time to look into this a small bit or look at the posts)

They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

Here is a another quote

Quote

“If money is wanted by Rulers
who have in any manner oppressed
the People,
they may retain it
until their grievances are redressed,
and thus peaceably procure relief,
without trusting to despised petitions
or disturbing the public tranquility.”

1774, Journals of the Continental Congress, 1:105-113

There are 10 issues they want addressed including the Patriot Act and the way we went to war in Iraq.

http://www.givemeliberty.org/revolution/

Scroll down, the issues they want addressed are listed and linked

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Taxation of certain forms of income was deemed illegal by the SCOTUS in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. 157 U.S. 429 (1895). Taxation of other forms of income was allowed by Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 of the Constitution - thus since 1787.

Then the Sixteenth Amendment was passed, which allowed Congress to tax incomes without apportionment.

I really find it difficult to justify that income taxes are Unconstitutional when the Constitution mentions it a couple of times. It's the same as saying the capital punishment is Unconstitutional, even though the Constitution specifically provides for it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Taxation of certain forms of income was deemed illegal by the SCOTUS in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. 157 U.S. 429 (1895). Taxation of other forms of income was allowed by Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 of the Constitution - thus since 1787.

Then the Sixteenth Amendment was passed, which allowed Congress to tax incomes without apportionment.

I really find it difficult to justify that income taxes are Unconstitutional when the Constitution mentions it a couple of times. It's the same as saying the capital punishment is Unconstitutional, even though the Constitution specifically provides for it.

\
This is NOT a fight about Taxation. Taxes are the leaver only

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Isn't this the same sort of thing that Snipes just got tagged for?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Isn't this the same sort of thing that Snipes just got tagged for?

Dont know, I do know all of what they are doing has been in the courts. Not sure where it is at right now.


Here are some of the court docs on silencing the group

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/Court-Docs/6700-2ndCirc-Full-Appeal-Oct-2007.pdf

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/Court-Docs/6700-DOJ-Appeal-Resp-Nov-2007.pdf

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/Court-Docs/6700-WTP-REPLY-Dec-2007.pdf

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

They are saying they do not have to pay taxes (if you would take the time to look into this a small bit or look at the posts)

They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

This is merely their latest attempt to avoid their responsibilities and pretend to have 'legal' background for doing so. As I said, unless you have evidence not from tax whackos, I don't believe for a second that a court has allowed a escrow account to be used. Every other word coming out of these people is bullshit.

[billvon 3,120]

>They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have
>issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no
>ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

1) The First Amendment only has one sentence.

2) It says nothing about taxes.

The First Amendment in its entirety:

==========
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
==========

Translation: you can petition the government if you dislike something they do. While you are doing that you must obey all the laws everyone else does (including taxation.)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have
>issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no
>ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

1) The First Amendment only has one sentence.

2) It says nothing about taxes.

The First Amendment in its entirety:

==========
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
==========

Translation: you can petition the government if you dislike something they do. While you are doing that you must obey all the laws everyone else does (including taxation.)

Sorry, you are correct about the number of lines. I was speaking to what is highlighted above

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

They are saying they do not have to pay taxes (if you would take the time to look into this a small bit or look at the posts)

They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

This is merely their latest attempt to avoid their responsibilities and pretend to have 'legal' background for doing so. As I said, unless you have evidence not from tax whackos, I don't believe for a second that a court has allowed a escrow account to be used. Every other word coming out of these people is bullshit.

Spoken as the great decider of who is a free thinker

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

So, Marc - where does it state *anywhere* that you don't have to pay taxes if you are petitioning the government for redress of grievances? Showing some sort of legal proof of the assertion would greatly help your case, here...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,120]

> I was speaking to what is highlighted above

The highlighted section says you can go to the government with your complaint. Nothing about taxes at all.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

They are saying they do not have to pay taxes (if you would take the time to look into this a small bit or look at the posts)

They are saying the Constitution states the people have a RIGHT to have issues addressed that are constitiutional and until that that happens, no ruler may collect taxes. This is the last sentenace of the First Amendment.

This is merely their latest attempt to avoid their responsibilities and pretend to have 'legal' background for doing so. As I said, unless you have evidence not from tax whackos, I don't believe for a second that a court has allowed a escrow account to be used. Every other word coming out of these people is bullshit.

Spoken as the great decider of who is a free thinker

Freedom ain't free. You got to pay taxes to keep this society going.

These assholes have been at this game for a long time - filing bullshit motions by the barrel with notes like: you must respond by X or you agree that I can skip taxed and fuck your wife when I please.

Their form of constitutional scholarship is exactly on par with those assholes from the Brady bunch. You know the routine - torture a contrary meaning out of obvious language to serve a selfish purpose.

Sorry, you don't like paying high taxes. I don't like paying for the Iraqi war anymore, but I don't get to stop paying until they explain to me how it's a legal non war or not. Given your ongoing support for Bush policy, I don't see how you're on fair ground to advocate tax dodging.

If you want to pay less for a sustained period of time (not just one administration), the lesson seems clear - vote Democrat.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

If you want to pay less for a sustained period of time (not just one administration), the lesson seems clear - vote Democrat.

How in the hell do you get THAT solution? "If you want to pay less, vote for the party that will raise taxes" doesn't seem very logical.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

If you want to pay less ... vote Democrat.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

We are all engines of karma

[mnealtx 0]

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If you want to pay less ... vote Democrat.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 2]

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Their form of constitutional scholarship is exactly on par with those assholes from the Brady bunch.

"Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!"
Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803).

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Lots of RINOs these days. And I think there have been some serious abuses (beginning with Gingrich), with which Republicans are going to be shackled for some period of time.

We are all engines of karma

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Interns, cheap cigars, a blue dress … and the best you can come up with is "blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse"? You're slacking.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Interns, cheap cigars, a blue dress … and the best you can come up with is "blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse"? You're slacking.

Regardless of what some of the, shall we say, more left-leaning posters think.... it's not always all about Clinton.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Interns, cheap cigars, a blue dress … and the best you can come up with is "blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse"? You're slacking.

Regardless of what some of the, shall we say, more left-leaning posters think.... it's not always all about Clinton.

Duh … I mentioned interns, didn't I?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

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Quote

Quote

Quote

Well, it ain't like EITHER side of the aisle is doing anything but blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse...dammit.

Interns, cheap cigars, a blue dress … and the best you can come up with is "blowing money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse"? You're slacking.

Regardless of what some of the, shall we say, more left-leaning posters think.... it's not always all about Clinton.

Duh … I mentioned interns, didn't I?

I was speaking to *my* use of metaphor, not the examples you gave...although I did think of "Pac-man in a strip club" for a few moments.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

> I was speaking to what is highlighted above

The highlighted section says you can go to the government with your complaint. Nothing about taxes at all.

Did you read the whole thread?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln