Obama plans to halt future weapons programs, disarm our nuclear program and protect us.

[warpedskydiver 0]

http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/06/08/obama-wants-to-protect-america/

[Amazon 7]

Ah.. the fringe right has spoken again...


FEAR FEAR FEAR....


Got anything of substance??

[quade 4]

"Fear" is pretty much the favorite tool of all people trying to convince you of anything. It's pretty much the least expensive and most effective way to control people.

Madison Avenue knows this, Hitler knew it and so did George Orwell.

Fear works.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TheAnvil 0]

Some good things in what Sen. Obama says in this clip - many bad things as well.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[GQ_jumper 4]

Quote

Ah.. the fringe right has spoken again...


FEAR FEAR FEAR....


Got anything of substance??

Let it go, nobody was using fear as a tool.............don't you have some soldiers to call brainwashed or something?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[jcd11235 0]

I don't see any problems with what Obama says in the video. It certainly shows more wisdom than our current foreign policy and DoD budgeting priorities.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Let it go, nobody was using fear as a tool.............don't you have some soldiers to call brainwashed or something?

BULLSHIT... its been going on since 9/11 from the fringe right...it is how they have maintained and abused their power.


Its been happening for years.... and YES the military is VERY good at psyops... starrting with those who need the reason they are fed from day one. They do everything they can to take a kid and turn him into a tool to be used for national objectives as set by the leadership of the country. To suggest otherwise is naievete on a scale unbecoming someone who has been where you have been and done the things you have done.

[quade 4]

Quote

Let it go, nobody was using fear as a tool.............don't you have some soldiers to call brainwashed or something?

I HIGHLY recommend rereading "1984" and watching the movie "V for Vengeance". Both are excellent commentary on the use of fear as a tool for political power.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,116]

>nobody was using fear as a tool. . . .

No one was using fear of another 9/11 to achieve their political goals?

Google the resolution authorizing military action against Iraq. See if it mentions 9/11.

Or here's a good quote from Cheney in 2004:

"The biggest threat we face now as a nation is the possibility of terrorists ending up in the middle of one of our cities with deadlier weapons than have ever before been used against us - biological agents or a nuclear weapon or a chemical weapon of some kind to be able to threaten the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans."

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

>nobody was using fear as a tool. . . .

No one was using fear of another 9/11 to achieve their political goals?

Google the resolution authorizing military action against Iraq. See if it mentions 9/11.

Or here's a good quote from Cheney in 2004:

"The biggest threat we face now as a nation is the possibility of terrorists ending up in the middle of one of our cities with deadlier weapons than have ever before been used against us - biological agents or a nuclear weapon or a chemical weapon of some kind to be able to threaten the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans."

I know Cheney's quote above is a 'fear statement', but what is invalid about that quote? The only phrase I may question is 'biggest threat'. Overall, it was a valid statement.

_________________________________________
Chris

[billvon 3,116]

>Overall, it was a valid statement.

Of course. So is "with the way things are now in California, a homosexual could come into your school, kidnap your son and rape him!" That is literally true. (Or substitute "fundie" or "priest" for "homosexual.") In all cases, that would be a literally valid statement being used to manipulate people through fear.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

"V for Vengeance"

"V for Vengeance"? or "V for Vendetta"? They're both fighting the totalitarian system.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[billvon 3,116]

Both your quotes reference the same movie (the movie starring Natalie Portman and Hugo Weaving.)

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Both your quotes reference the same movie (the movie starring Natalie Portman and Hugo Weaving.)

Yes. You understand the irony.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[quade 4]

Vendetta is correct; my bad.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

>Overall, it was a valid statement.

Of course. So is "with the way things are now in California, a homosexual could come into your school, kidnap your son and rape him!" That is literally true. (Or substitute "fundie" or "priest" for "homosexual.") In all cases, that would be a literally valid statement being used to manipulate people through fear.

Alright, you win.

I'm only giving you the win because you survived 4 years at Chaminade while I only survived 2.

_________________________________________
Chris

[JeanJeanie 0]

There was a time when nuclear weapons were a deterrent against an attack, now countries feel they need weapons to protect themselves from the weapons.
To protect themselves from the weapons,
To protect themselves from the weapons,
To protect themselves from the weapons,
To protect themselves from the weapons,
and so on, and so on


Obama '08 !

PeaceOut,
Jeanie

~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK

[Muenkel 0]

Since we're doing presidential endorsements:

McCain '08.

_________________________________________
Chris

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Ah.. the fringe right has spoken again...


FEAR FEAR FEAR....


Got anything of substance??

When you speak of the "fringe right" to whom are you referring?

Obama?

The host of that blog?

Me?

[GQ_jumper 4]

They do everything they can to take a kid and turn him into a tool to be used for national objectives as set by the leadership of the country. To suggest otherwise is naievete on a scale unbecoming someone who has been where you have been and done the things you have done.

Quote

You make comments that imply anyone who does not hold your exact opinion is brainwashed simply because they chose to believe something else. And more often than not you throw a few cheap shots in there against young soldiers with your debates then turn around in the next thread and rally behind them. Elite leftist in its purest form, use the soldiers as a platform to gain popularity because you're screaming for their support one minute then turn around the next and call them tools and brainwashed machines because they choose to draw their own conclusions instead of buying into the dribble that you post.

Pick a side, you play up your military service to relate to us when its cool, and when the crowd is moving against the opinion of those in the military you turn your back on us, pretty underhanded and two-faced for someone who uses their prior service to solidify their stance in so many arguments. Kerry would love you.

As for me saying nobody was using fear, I was referring specifically to the video of Obama, nothing was taken out of context, hell the OP didn't say a damn word, he just posted the video and let people draw their own conclusions, and Obama did say in no unclear terms in that video that he would work to dismantle our weapons programs. That isn't using fear, that's allowing people to decide for themselves, you and Billvon are the ones that twisted this into some little right wing conspiracy.

And since you want to bring it up, if you want a good example of what brainwashed looks like you need look no further than your left wing heroes who all voted for the invasion, they fell right in line with what the "brainwashed" popular crowd was doing.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[Amazon 7]

Wow.. touched a nerve there did I Buckie???

Quote

You make comments that imply anyone who does not hold your exact opinion is brainwashed simply because they chose to believe something else.

Again.. BULLSHIT.....I expect and demand reasoned responses.. and we get far too few of those from those on the fringe right.

You yourself seem to lump ANYONE who does not believe in your personal theology of the right. to be a leftie....I find that the fringe right truly believe they are moderates...guess what.. you are not moderates in ANY form

I actually DO support our troops.. FAR more than you seem to believe... as found in your diatribe above.

Mindlessly following the whims of politicians is what got us into this mess and several OTHER messes in the last century.

I believe in using our troops( our young people.. our children) WHEN and if our country is actually threatened or attacked.

Sending YOU off to a needless exercise in stupidity... while it helps you make rank.. and makes certain segments of our country far richer and gives them an excuse to raid our treasury and sully our country in the eyes of the world is NOT a good use of the lives of our young. I have picked a side.. its in the middle.. you do NOT get a fucking blank check to run around the world in wars of opportunity.. remember you work for US the American people.. not just the fringe right NEO CONS who are enriching themselves at the rest of the American peoples expense.. in wealth and in lives.

Supporting our troops for some of us means more than just blindly following along with what the "Powers that be" want. I also have NO issue with supporting our troops who did serve for the rest of their lives.. that is the promise that is made to them.. and its a promise that needs to be kept.

[billvon 3,116]

>hell the OP didn't say a damn word

Other than title it "disarm our nuclear program . . ."

Imagine someone posted something about McCain's support for gun control, and they titled it "McCain wants to take away your weapons so you can defend your family from armed intruders." Would you consider that an unbiased post?

>that's allowing people to decide for themselves . . .

Let's do that, then. Here are some other quotes that people may find useful when deciding for themselves:

"We also share an obligation with the world’s other great powers to halt and reverse the proliferation of nuclear weapons."

"We should work to reduce nuclear arsenals all around the world, starting with our own."

"Forty years ago, the five declared nuclear powers came together in support of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and pledged to end the arms race and move toward nuclear disarmament. The time has come to renew that commitment."

"We do not need all the weapons currently in our arsenal."

"I will seek to reduce the size of our nuclear arsenal to the lowest number possible consistent with our security requirements and global commitments."

Needless to say, these all came from McCain.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Let it go, nobody was using fear as a tool

Have we had a rise in the terror color warning since Bush won again in 2004? Now go back and look at how many times the color warning changed in the lead up to the election in 2002 and 2003....and notice that it happened around the same time the Dem's made a strong move for change. Then a weak or two later it was announced quietly that the warning was often raised on expired information and the threat was no longer real.

Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrent is old school. Most of our threats do not come from a nation anymore, and you only need a handful of bombs to keep up the same level of MAD. It will only take 2 or 3 bombs to bring about the end of civilization as we know it now.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Amazon 7]

Come on man..Johnny Rico needs his fist sized nukes developed so he can kill all the bugs terrorists.










Do you have what it takes to be a Citizen?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrent is old school. Most of our threats do not come from a nation anymore, and you only need a handful of bombs to keep up the same level of MAD. It will only take 2 or 3 bombs to bring about the end of civilization as we know it now.

Those in the field (eg, K Waltz) don't view MAD as extinct just because it's conceivable that nationless groups might obtain weapons. They still have to be somewhere, and they still have the risk of retribution. It's actually more dangerous - if Bin Laden dropped the bomb, we might nuke the region he is in. It's much harder to find him in a cave than to make 10,000 square miles uninhabitable.

2 or 3 bombs could alter the world order, but will not end civilization as we know it.