City Law to Fine you for Idling your Car

[rehmwa 2]

So - A poll in the JohnRich fashion. I'm really interested in who thinks it's a good thing to tell people how long they can sit in their running cars or if they are allowed to warm up their cars in the winter. Below from a search on the topic, I took the top listing and in no way advocate for or against the website.


http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2027921/posts

"MINNEAPOLIS -- A new ordinance in Minneapolis limits vehicle idling at three minutes.

Mayor R.T. Rybak says the idea is to reduce air pollution.

City Council member Sandy Colvin Roy says cars don't need more than one minute to warm up, even in the winter.

The ordinance limits most vehicles idling to three minutes, except in traffic."

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 4]

I don't think there's going to be many cops with stop watches writing tickets for people that idle for 3:01.

What I do think is that the law will raise a certain level of awareness that idling for extended periods is a complete waste of fuel.

Modern cars do not need to "warm up" for even a small fraction of the time cars used to. Pretty much, if the engine will start at all, you're good to drive it. Sure, there are going to be some "extreme" examples out there somewhere, but what the mayor said about not needing to warm up for even a minute is actually conservative in most areas of the country.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

In San Luis Obispo, they banned drive-thrus, what, 25 years ago as an anti-pollution measure. Of course, San Luis Obispo has not the sort of climate where you must worry about flash freezing coffee in the winter or searing your salad in the summer.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[beowulf 1]

I don't know about you but the reason for warming up my car in winter was to get the heater to start working so I could defrost my windows, so I could see where I was going.

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't think there's going to be many cops with stop watches writing tickets for people that idle for 3:01.

I believe this particular county is in a 'revenue collection' mode. So I don't agree with you at all.

I also suspect the self righteous brigade now will be knocking on windows and informing people how they are greaking the law and killing the great mother.

why do you think 'law' has to be passed for the only purpose of "raising awareness"? Isn't that an abuse of the legislative process?

edit: "greaking" the law?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't know about you but the reason for warming up my car in winter was to get the heater to start working so I could defrost my windows, so I could see where I was going.

Your windshield wouldn't frost up if you just leave your side windows open while driving in the winter. Why do you hate the Earth so much?

Soon, "they" will be inspecting your home for the 'correct' light bulbs, low flush toilets, etc.

YAY, someone DOES care about the children.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 4]

Raising the level of paranoia one thread at a time.

If only there was money in that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JohnRich 4]

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why do you think 'law' has to be passed for the only purpose of "raising awareness"? Isn't that an abuse of the legislative process?

Ding ding ding - we have a winner.

If they want to raise awareness, then run some public service advertisements on TV.

Don't pass laws that you have no intention of enforcing.

[rehmwa 2]

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Raising the level of paranoia one thread at a time.

If only there was money in that.

Oh there is money in that - lots of money

this is a GW related thread, you know

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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If they want to raise awareness, then run some public service advertisements on TV.

why should my tax dollars pay for that? those public service campaigns become incredibly bloated

let a private concern do that if it's that big a deal for them

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,120]

Most cities already have laws on the books to prevent trucks idling for long periods, primarily for noise, traffic and pollution issues.

I think the car idling thing is one of the inevitable results of people panicking over gas prices, and telling their representatives in government "DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! EVEN IF IT'S DUMB!"

[kallend 2,150]

I think three should be ordinances against city traffic lights that stop you and keep you idling unnecessarily when nothing is coming the other way.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AWL71 0]

I think people should use common sense and realize that idling your car is a waste of gas. I think common sense legislation should be passed. Oh wait, our elected officials don't have any of that at any level. Damn, so much for that idea.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[Shotgun 1]

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So - A poll in the JohnRich fashion.

I'm pretty sure he only gives two options in all of his polls, so you have one too many to be in the JohnRich fashion.

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I'm really interested in who thinks it's a good thing to tell people how long they can sit in their running cars or if they are allowed to warm up their cars in the winter.

I think it's a great thing to tell other people what they should do. I tell people what to do all the time, even though no one usually listens to me.

But it's probably not a great idea to pass a difficult-to-enforce law that will mostly waste the cops' time when they could be protecting people from more dangerous things.

[rehmwa 2]

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I think ..... one of the inevitable results of people panicking over ..... telling their representatives in government "DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! EVEN IF IT'S DUMB!"

ding ding ding

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[georgerussia 0]

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I think three should be ordinances against city traffic lights that stop you and keep you idling unnecessarily when nothing is coming the other way.

and stop signs.
Somehow in NorCal it looks like the people who planned the roads had no idea that "Yield" sign exists. We have "Stop" signs everywhere, including the places we don't need them at all.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I think three should be ordinances against city traffic lights that stop you and keep you idling unnecessarily when nothing is coming the other way.

Amen. My morning commute is a pain in the ass - not because of traffic, but because of piss poor timed lights.

There is one section, on the main road, where the light turns greed, just as the next one turns red.

Stop - go - Stop - go.

*sigh*

Performance Designs Factory Team

[LongWayToFall 0]

Your retarded if you think its good for your engine to just start it up and drive. Your advice could cost someone thousands of dollars of damage. The engine takes many minutes to reach normal operating temperatures. Lets look at a comparison of old and new engines.

Old engine: steel heads, steel pistons, steel block.
As the engine warms up, everything is expanding at the same rate, and tolerances don't change much.

New engine: Aluminum heads, pistons, and sometimes block but always with steel sleeves. When the engine is cold, the pistons fit loosely in the bore, because the aluminum expands at a much higher rate than steel does. When it is warm, the tolerances tighten up to what they should be. Also the cylinder head needs to expand to properly sandwich the head gasket.
If you just hop in your car and floor it, you run the risk of the pistons expanding too quickly for the sleeves to match, and it will cold seize. This is very damaging to the engine and would most likely require it to be rebuilt. If there is too much pressure in the cylinders when it is cold, you also run the risk of blowing out the head gasket.
Moral of story: Let your car warm up for as long as possible, 1 or 2 minutes is safe if you are only just barely hitting the gas driving around town, but if you plan on going onto the freeway as soon as you pull out of your driveway, let it warm up for a minimum of 5 minutes. If the temperature gauge in your car is not even off of the peg, then it is not smart to give it anything more than 1/4 throttle.

It is not the governments place to regulate how long your car is idling for, for the purpose of burning less fuel and reducing polution. Makes me want to take my stimulus check and spend it on a drum of gas to dump on a pile of old tires

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you just hop in your car and floor it, you run the risk of the pistons expanding too quickly for the sleeves to match, and it will cold seize.

Who suggested starting it and flooring it? What a stupid strawman.

5 minute warmup - sorry, you're the one that's behind the times. The car doesn't complete its warmup just sitting there anyway.

[mnealtx 0]

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If you just hop in your car and floor it, you run the risk of the pistons expanding too quickly for the sleeves to match, and it will cold seize.

Who suggested starting it and flooring it? What a stupid strawman.

5 minute warmup - sorry, you're the one that's behind the times. The car doesn't complete its warmup just sitting there anyway.

Odd - if I start the truck and let it idle for 5 minutes, the tempurature gauge has just started to lift off the peg.

I guess it must be broken.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

if your truck from the carburator (Reagan) era?

My owner's manuals specifically state - don't sit there idly for long, it's better to get moving at a gingerly pace.

[mnealtx 0]

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if your truck from the carburator (Reagan) era?

My owner's manuals specifically state - don't sit there idly for long, it's better to get moving at a gingerly pace.

Nope - it's an '01.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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if you are only just barely hitting the gas driving around town, but if you plan on going onto the freeway as soon as you pull out of your driveway, let it warm up for a minimum of 5 minutes.

Uh . . . no.

Car Talk
Ask.Cars.Com
Dr. Kar

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The Canadian Office of Energy Efficiency agrees that the best way to warm up your engine is to drive it. Even if the outside temperature is -20°C, they recommend that you idle the engine for only 15-30 seconds before you pull out onto the road.

I could list others, but really there's no need. Your statement is absurd.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,120]

>Moral of story: Let your car warm up for as long as possible . . .

You can do that if you like. It won't do anything for the longevity of the engine, but if you prefer it, then by all means - start it before you go to bed so it will be nice and warmed up by the time you have to leave in the morning.

Car engines warm up faster when they are used at moderate power settings, thus minimizing friction and dissimilar expansion problems. That counteracts any benefit you get from letting it idle. The ideal is to start your car, put it in drive and drive off gently, letting it warm up as you go. (Naturally if you have to wait for the defroster to warm up, it makes sense to wait.)

Here's something that will really bake your noodle - the engine in my car often doesn't start until I've driven a few miles! And yet, it's at 65,000 miles with zero problems.

>Makes me want to take my stimulus check and spend it on a drum of gas
>to dump on a pile of old tires.

I think you'll want that stimulus check to allow you to do your long idle thing!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Here's something that will really bake your noodle - the engine in my car often doesn't start until I've driven a few miles! And yet, it's at 65,000 miles with zero problems.

Hmm, that makes me think of something I've never considered. How do you deal with an hybrid when it is -40 out? It really isn't safe to jump into traffic until you have defrosting up to temp.