warpedskydiver 0 #1 June 7, 2008 I am certainly looking forward to this Monday. SCOTUS will announce their decision on either this Monday or one of the following two Mondays of this month. I am predicting that Heller vs. DC will be upheld, and then start an avalanche of lawsuits against gun laws which are unconstitutional. What are your feelings on this matter? Please stick to the topic, and be concise in your replys. If you cannot post in this thread without resorting to straw man arguments, or just making idiotic statements, just don't post at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 June 7, 2008 I'll make no predictions. Grammar, punctuation and intent are all too confusing no matter what the NRA has said over the years. As I said nearly six months ago, it will be interesting to see either way. I will say this, a couple of your polling choices are hilarious. Regardless of what happens, there will still be some gun laws; too many for some and too few for others. As for the 2nd being "repealed", that's just hilarious. Nobody is asking for that. What is in question is where the line is drawn.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #3 June 7, 2008 Quote As for the 2nd being "repealed", that's just hilarious. Nobody is asking for that. What is in question is where the line is drawn. Just as hilarious as DC banning all handguns? So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 June 7, 2008 Quote Quote As for the 2nd being "repealed", that's just hilarious. Nobody is asking for that. What is in question is where the line is drawn. Just as hilarious as DC banning all handguns? Is banning a certain class of guns the same as repealing the 2nd? No. Again, it's where you draw the line. Perhaps a review of the information available on-line would be helpful. Not that this is to be held as "official" but it's a good starting point. In particular . . . this.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 June 7, 2008 Quote Quote Quote As for the 2nd being "repealed", that's just hilarious. Nobody is asking for that. What is in question is where the line is drawn. Just as hilarious as DC banning all handguns? Is banning a certain class of guns the same as repealing the 2nd? No. Again, it's where you draw the line. Right, and it's plain to see where that line was drawn and its effect on DC. Gun violence is so high now that police have set up check points in and out of certain neighborhoods. While I was at Walter Reed, in July 2006, there were 21 murders in the first 20 days of the month, the Mayor mandated a curfew. Just two weekends ago, they had 8 killed. Chicago followed suit and they're in the same boat. Kennesaw Gerogia... Let's compare: Washington, DC Chicago, IL Kennesaw, GASo I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #6 June 7, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote As for the 2nd being "repealed", that's just hilarious. Nobody is asking for that. What is in question is where the line is drawn. Just as hilarious as DC banning all handguns? Is banning a certain class of guns the same as repealing the 2nd? No. Again, it's where you draw the line. Right, and it's plain to see where that line was drawn and its effect on DC. Gun violence is so high now that police have set up check points in and out of certain neighborhoods. While I was at Walter Reed, in July 2006, there were 21 murders in the first 20 days of the month, the Mayor mandated a curfew. Just two weekends ago, they had 8 killed. Chicago followed suit and they're in the same boat. Kennesaw Gerogia... Let's compare: Washington, DC Chicago, IL Kennesaw, GA Oh don't be ridiculous. A small rural community compared with a major metro area is plain stupid. How about comparison with Dallas.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 June 7, 2008 QuoteOh don't be ridiculous. A small rural community compared with a major metro area is plain stupid. How about comparison with Dallas. Dallas, TX Dallas is less than half as bad as DC, with more than twice the population to boot. My point about Kennesaw is that it is well known about its gun laws. Even LA isn't as bad, with 6x the population and NYC is even better (though their gun law isn't so great either, it's not a total ban). DC and Chicago's position that strict gun control reduces crime is clearly invalidated.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #8 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteOh don't be ridiculous. A small rural community compared with a major metro area is plain stupid. How about comparison with Dallas. Dallas, TX Dallas is less than half as bad as DC, with more than twice the population to boot. My point about Kennesaw is that it is well known about its gun laws. Even LA isn't as bad, with 6x the population and NYC is even better (though their gun law isn't so great either, it's not a total ban). DC and Chicago's position that strict gun control reduces crime is clearly invalidated. Dallas has a homicide rate (per 100,000) considerably worse than Chicago or NYC. DC is an anomaly on account of its proximity to VA gun shops. Kennesaw has a demographic that makes it irrelevant to the discussion about crime in big cities.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 June 7, 2008 QuoteDC is an anomaly on account of its proximity to VA gun shops. You keep trotting out that bullshit line.... PROVE IT.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #10 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteDC is an anomaly on account of its proximity to VA gun shops. You keep trotting out that bullshit line.... PROVE IT. Oh, that's easy. Here's one for starters: Lennox Arms Inc. 1630 N Barton St, Arlington, VA - (703) 527-2932 Less than 2 miles from downtown DC... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteDC is an anomaly on account of its proximity to VA gun shops. You keep trotting out that bullshit line.... PROVE IT. Oh, that's easy. Here's one for starters: Lennox Arms Inc. 1630 N Barton St, Arlington, VA - (703) 527-2932 Less than 2 miles from downtown DC Ok - now you can provide the gun traces that show all the crime guns bought at that store. THEN you can show me WHY the police didn't arrest all those criminals for the crime of attempting to buy a gun - since felons can't legally do it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #12 June 7, 2008 Lookeee - an on-topic post! Looking forward to it as well. I'm cautiously optimistic. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #13 June 7, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote DC is an anomaly on account of its proximity to VA gun shops. You keep trotting out that bullshit line.... PROVE IT. Oh, that's easy. Here's one for starters: Lennox Arms Inc. 1630 N Barton St, Arlington, VA - (703) 527-2932 Less than 2 miles from downtown DC Ok - now you can provide the gun traces that show all the crime guns bought at that store. THEN you can show me WHY the police didn't arrest all those criminals for the crime of attempting to buy a gun - since felons can't legally do it. I've just demonstrated that DC is an anomaly. No other large metropolitan district with gun control has gun shops less than 2 miles from its downtown. It is also an anomaly in that it has more lawyers and politicians per square mile than anywhere else on Earth. It is also an anomaly in it's (absence of) repreentation. DC is simply an outlier in so many ways. Now, you can't go using anomalous cases and outliers to prove a general rule. End of storyIf you want some kind of statistical validity, compare Chicago with Dallas or NYC with Houston or Miami.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #14 June 7, 2008 Postulation != proof.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #15 June 7, 2008 QuotePostulation != proof. You can simply disprove my assertion by finding another large US metropolitan area with gun control that (a) has a gun shop within 2 miles of its downtown, (b) has more lawyers and politicians per square mile, (c) has no Senator. All you have to do is find one. Should be pretty easy for you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuotePostulation != proof. You can simply disprove my assertion by finding another large US metropolitan area with gun control that (a) has a gun shop within 2 miles of its downtown, (b) has more lawyers and politicians per square mile, (c) has no Senator. All you have to do is find one. Should be pretty easy for you. And you can prove YOUR point by: a) showing that the gun shop is selling to criminals and that the guns sold are predominantly used in crime. b) show how your b) or c) have merry fuck-all to do with crime - unless you're purporting that it's the lawyers and politicians that are doing all the robbing/killing. As you say... "it should be pretty easy for you"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #17 June 8, 2008 QuoteQuotePostulation != proof. You can simply disprove my assertion by finding another large US metropolitan area with gun control that (a) has a gun shop within 2 miles of its downtown, (b) has more lawyers and politicians per square mile, (c) has no Senator. All you have to do is find one. Should be pretty easy for you. Desperation does not become you. But it is very normal (for you) We still await your PROOF!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 June 9, 2008 QuoteI'll make no predictions. Grammar, punctuation and intent are all too confusing no matter what the NRA has said over the years. This sounds like Barbie - "Math is hard." It's only confusing if you want it to be, because you don't like the truth. And it's really missing the point of the Bill of Rights when you presume that the intent was to restrict freedoms, not enhance. Can you think of any other element in the Constitution where citizens' rights have been reduced over the 2 centuries? Slaves no longer exist, nor are 3/5s of a person. Women vote. Press and religion are freer. Quote I will say this, a couple of your polling choices are hilarious. Yes, highly overlapping choices. How can one pick for the 2 or 3 choices suitable to them? And eliminating all handguns is not just eliminating a class of weapons - it's eliminating the most suitable choice for a number of applications. Not every problem can be solved with a shotgun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #19 June 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotePostulation != proof. You can simply disprove my assertion by finding another large US metropolitan area with gun control that (a) has a gun shop within 2 miles of its downtown, (b) has more lawyers and politicians per square mile, (c) has no Senator. All you have to do is find one. Should be pretty easy for you. Desperation does not become you. But it is very normal (for you) We still await your PROOF! I have made an assertion and when asked for evidence, I provided clear, unambiguous, factual evidence showing that Washington DC differs in significant ways from any other US city. Provide evidence to the contrary and we have a basis for discussion. Otherwise, stop moving the goalposts.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #20 June 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteI'll make no predictions. Grammar, punctuation and intent are all too confusing no matter what the NRA has said over the years. This sounds like Barbie - "Math is hard." Not if you actually can read and speak the english language! There have been a number of raging debates by minds greater than mine about the placement of a couple of commas there and how they separate this clause from another.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #21 June 9, 2008 Quote Right, and it's plain to see where that line was drawn and its effect on DC. Gun violence is so high now that police have set up check points in and out of certain neighborhoods. While I was at Walter Reed, in July 2006, there were 21 murders in the first 20 days of the month, the Mayor mandated a curfew. Just two weekends ago, they had 8 killed. Chicago followed suit and they're in the same boat. Kennesaw Gerogia... Let's compare: Washington, DC Chicago, IL Kennesaw, GA This point is completely lost on liberal anti-gun types. They don't get it.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #22 June 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotePostulation != proof. You can simply disprove my assertion by finding another large US metropolitan area with gun control that (a) has a gun shop within 2 miles of its downtown, (b) has more lawyers and politicians per square mile, (c) has no Senator. All you have to do is find one. Should be pretty easy for you. And you can prove YOUR point by: a) showing that the gun shop is selling to criminals and that the guns sold are predominantly used in crime. b) show how your b) or c) have merry fuck-all to do with crime - unless you're purporting that it's the lawyers and politicians that are doing all the robbing/killing. As you say... "it should be pretty easy for you" My point was very clearly stated - Washington DC is an atypical city for a variety of stated reasons. If you believe it acceptable to use an anomalous, atypical case to try to prove a general point, you REALLY need to take that course in statistics that you've been procrastinating about. The burden of proof is on you to show that your choice of data is proper.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #23 June 9, 2008 Quote I've just demonstrated that DC is an anomaly. No other large metropolitan district with gun control has gun shops less than 2 miles from its downtown Uhm, buses don't go farther than two miles? You're not making sense on this one...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #24 June 9, 2008 QuoteQuote Right, and it's plain to see where that line was drawn and its effect on DC. Gun violence is so high now that police have set up check points in and out of certain neighborhoods. While I was at Walter Reed, in July 2006, there were 21 murders in the first 20 days of the month, the Mayor mandated a curfew. Just two weekends ago, they had 8 killed. Chicago followed suit and they're in the same boat. Kennesaw Gerogia... Let's compare: Washington, DC Chicago, IL Kennesaw, GA This point is completely lost on liberal anti-gun types. They don't get it. Apparently the high homicide rate in Dallas and New Orleans is lost on pro-gun types.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #25 June 9, 2008 Quote I have made an assertion... That has nothing to do with the topic, IMO.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
