jcd11235 0 #26 June 6, 2008 QuoteAnd any persons that are recieving their paycheck from a government source will pay income tax on it like everyone else. Exactly. Revenue spent by the government goes back into the economy just like revenue spent by any other consumer. Thus, you can't discount government spending in your experiment.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 June 6, 2008 QuoteCongress has indeed passed capital-gains and estate tax cuts, neither of which affects the lowest earners. However, if you mean that they concurrently passed income tax legislation that affects the lower rates, I agree. the changes in capital gains taxes included a 0% rate for low earners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteAnd any persons that are recieving their paycheck from a government source will pay income tax on it like everyone else. Exactly. Revenue spent by the government goes back into the economy just like revenue spent by any other consumer. Thus, you can't discount government spending in your experiment. Paycheck = paycheck, income tax=income tax. I don't believe I specified ANYWHERE in these posts that government doesn't have any money to pay people.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 June 6, 2008 QuotePLEASE don't sidetrack into gov't spending - that will be the subject of another post, tonight. You want to put off an essential part of the discussion until Friday night? Cute. Running a deficit leads to inflation which depresses business growth, blowing your first argument out of the water. The discussion should be what level should our taxation be, with the low end being just slightly less than our current spending (for recessions), and the high end being a surplus that pays down debt. Otherwise, you're thinking short term only. If you believe the current value is already too high, than you have to figure out how to cut spending. The war is obviously the first thing that comes to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #30 June 6, 2008 QuotePaycheck = paycheck, income tax=income tax. I don't believe I specified ANYWHERE in these posts that government doesn't have any money to pay people. Not all government spending is on labor. By the logic you're using, there no need to count your spending, we can just start counting with the people to whom you pay your income to. That doesn't give us an accurate count of consumer spending.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #31 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuotePLEASE don't sidetrack into gov't spending - that will be the subject of another post, tonight. You want to put off an essential part of the discussion until Friday night? Cute. I only have so much time per day to postwhore - suck it up, cupcake. QuoteRunning a deficit leads to inflation which depresses business growth, blowing your first argument out of the water. Immaterial to the subject at hand - and who said that there is a deficit in the scenario I am describing? I am trying to keep the discussion as specific as possible so that we don't end up arguing minutae for 15 pages that have little/no effect on the pertinent question. QuoteThe discussion should be what level should our taxation be, with the low end being just slightly less than our current spending (for recessions), and the high end being a surplus that pays down debt. Otherwise, you're thinking short term only. That is, in general, what I am leading toward, is that type of a discussion - give me time, I'll get there. QuoteIf you believe the current value is already too high, than you have to figure out how to cut spending. The war is obviously the first thing that comes to mind. Again - immaterial to the discussion at hand.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #32 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuotePaycheck = paycheck, income tax=income tax. I don't believe I specified ANYWHERE in these posts that government doesn't have any money to pay people. Not all government spending is on labor. By the logic you're using, there no need to count your spending, we can just start counting with the people to whom you pay your income to. That doesn't give us an accurate count of consumer spending. For THIS discussion, it is - FFS, quit arguing just to argue. Fed.gov WILL be discussed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #33 June 6, 2008 QuoteFor THIS discussion, it is - FFS, quit arguing just to argue. Fed.gov WILL be discussed. I'm not arguing just to argue. If you want to reach a meaningful conclusion, you shouldn't leave out critical data.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #34 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteFor THIS discussion, it is - FFS, quit arguing just to argue. Fed.gov WILL be discussed. I'm not arguing just to argue. If you want to reach a meaningful conclusion, you shouldn't leave out critical data. For this argument, it is NOT critical except in your mind. Paycheck Tax Focus!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #35 June 6, 2008 never figured you for an ivory tower type. In the real world, the deficit is a material part of the conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 June 6, 2008 Quote For this argument, it is NOT critical except in your mind.! And the mind of anyone else who has basic grasp of economics. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #37 June 6, 2008 Quote Quote For this argument, it is NOT critical except in your mind.! And the mind of anyone else who has basic grasp of economics. Macro vs. micro - this is a micro discussion.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #38 June 6, 2008 QuoteMacro vs. micro - this is a micro discussion. My previous post is still applicable.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #39 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteMacro vs. micro - this is a micro discussion. My previous post is still applicable. For all your arguing about primary data and information not germane to questions in OTHER threads, jcd, you should the LAST fucking person to keep harping on this when I've already set the parameters over and over and FUCKING OVER in the threads. Now, for the LAST FUCKING TIME - this is NOT a real-world scenario. It is DELIBERATELY set up to disregard ANY effect outside of what is proposed. This includes subsidies, grants, defiicit spending, recessions, boom periods, etc etc etc. It is SOLELY discussing the effect of taxes over a certain level on business growth and consumer spending and a premise on the effects that business growth and consumer spending could possibly have on tax revenue in a closed system. Jesus - y'all sound like Bill Clinton arguing what the definition of "is" is...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #40 June 6, 2008 Quote I only have so much time per day to postwhore - . That being the case, why spend it on questions based on nonsensical premises?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuote I only have so much time per day to postwhore - . That being the case, why spend it on questions based on nonsensical premises? Just following in your footsteps, good Sir.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #42 June 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote For this argument, it is NOT critical except in your mind.! And the mind of anyone else who has basic grasp of economics. Macro vs. micro - this is a micro discussion. I don't think that word means what you think it does. Any discussion about how tax rates will affect business growth is hardly microeconomics. You can't boil it down to the simplicity of tax rate X% = Y $ in revenue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #43 June 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I only have so much time per day to postwhore - . That being the case, why spend it on questions based on nonsensical premises? Just following in your footsteps, good Sir. Hardly, I'm on vacation and the weather isn't jumpable.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 June 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote I only have so much time per day to postwhore - . That being the case, why spend it on questions based on nonsensical premises? Just following in your footsteps, good Sir. Hardly, I'm on vacation and the weather isn't jumpable. I'm at work and there's noplace to jump.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #45 June 8, 2008 Quote Revenue spent by the government goes back into the economy Uhm, redistributing income isn't the same as creating capital.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
