GM to close SUV plants...

[kallend 2,184]

ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jr1xpHkrhMavw9nyii_2_5Ga0GAgD912SICG0

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BillyVance 35]

Good way to put the screws to those unions. (I know, completely off the point)

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[akarunway 1]

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Good way to put the screws to those unions. (I know, completely off the point)

Yeah. And have your vehicles built w/ cheap labor in Mexico. I bought a 1999 NEW Dodge Ram. Started falling apart at 5000 miles. Found a "ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO" sticker on the driver door jam. The farmers (big corps.) are also moving to mexico for cheap labor amongst other things. production>DOWN 40%. Imagine that. I love NAFTA.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gawain 0]

Just because you see SUVs with only one person in them does not mean that they always have one person in them.

In fact, here in Tennessee and Kentucky, I see SUVs, pickups and the like being put to good use all the time.

The same arguments can be made about personal aircraft you know.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mnealtx 0]

Unions are rapidly pricing themselves out of business.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[stratostar 5]

Only retards buy American cars and get bent because they fall apart so soon, should have gone with honda or toyota.

UAW, good riddens, their to blame for their job's going to mexico and the great white north, I would gladly cross their picket line and even run a few of them over in my new 2008 honda, and laugh my ass off doing it.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[akarunway 1]

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Unions are rapidly pricing themselves out of business.

I work my ass off to build power plants (UNION) for your electricity and make 36 bucks an hr. I consider that a liveable wage. Not many people can or will do it. And I sure as fuck ain't gettting rich. Am I being paid to much?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mnealtx 0]

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Unions are rapidly pricing themselves out of business.

I work my ass off to build power plants (UNION) for your electricity and make 36 bucks an hr. I consider that a liveable wage. Not many people can or will do it. And I sure as fuck ain't gettting rich. Am I being paid to much?

Obviously not, since you're still working - but how much is the UNION getting paid per hour for your position?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[akarunway 1]

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Unions are rapidly pricing themselves out of business.

I work my ass off to build power plants (UNION) for your electricity and make 36 bucks an hr. I consider that a liveable wage. Not many people can or will do it. And I sure as fuck ain't gettting rich. Am I being paid to much?

Obviously not, since you're still working - but how much is the UNION getting paid per hour for your position?

Well. Add 11 bucks an hr for my bennies and then take away a couple bucks an hr for my dues. Had 50 grand come out for ins. in the last 5 yrs and never used a dime. Every higher up is corrupt, we all know it. Union or not. I'll stick w/ the union for now.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Just because you see SUVs with only one person in them does not mean that they always have one person in them.

In fact, here in Tennessee and Kentucky, I see SUVs, pickups and the like being put to good use all the time.

The same arguments can be made about personal aircraft you know.

Hey stop making sense you!

Geez, the next thing you may say is that all men are created equal, and endowed by they creator with certain inalienable rights.

[Gawain 0]

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Unions are rapidly pricing themselves out of business.

I work my ass off to build power plants (UNION) for your electricity and make 36 bucks an hr. I consider that a liveable wage. Not many people can or will do it. And I sure as fuck ain't gettting rich. Am I being paid to much?

In my opinion, no, but in some minds (mainly liberal), you are.

I am not 100% anti-union, but when it comes to partial-to-low-skilled labor, unions are bad for business and the employees.

VONs/Safeway in California has a unionized cashier workforce. Nearly all are part time, get paid benefits and average around $18/hr. For scanning groceries.

I know of some unions which protect other types of skilled labor (stuff that takes years to learn, decades to master, can't go to "college" for). There is a role for unions.

Automakers...I don't think you can count that as highly-skilled labor, seeing as how GM just bought out about 75,000 mfg early retirement jobs, and they are going to replace that labor with newer, younger for less than half the hourly wage. UAW does not serve their member's best interests in my view.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Just because you see SUVs with only one person in them does not mean that they always have one person in them.
In fact, here in Tennessee and Kentucky, I see SUVs, pickups and the like being put to good use all the time.

I don't have an issue with people using an SUV or pickup if your family, farm, or profession needs it. But there are too many places where they have been a status icon for far too long. Why do people in downtown NYC, Chicago, Vegas, LA need to drive one with only one person in the middle of city traffic. Then go to Dallas/Ft Worth and look at everyone driving them in loops around town on the weekend. You will see that far more often than someone using one for its intended purpose.

I don't want to see a town like Janesville die out but you had to see this coming.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[livendive 8]

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I don't have an issue with people using an SUV or pickup if your family, farm, or profession needs it. But there are too many places where they have been a status icon for far too long. Why do people in downtown NYC, Chicago, Vegas, LA need to drive one with only one person in the middle of city traffic. Then go to Dallas/Ft Worth and look at everyone driving them in loops around town on the weekend. You will see that far more often than someone using one for its intended purpose.

I need a pickup part of the time. The costs of buying, maintaining, and insuring an additional vehicle are not justified by the price of fuel, even at $5.00/gallon. Given that it would cost me substantially more to own a second vehicle and I'd like driving it a lot less than I like driving my truck, what's my motivation?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,132]

>I need a pickup part of the time.

So rent one when you need it. You can get them from U-haul-it, Hertz, even Home Depot.

[Gawain 0]

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Just because you see SUVs with only one person in them does not mean that they always have one person in them.
In fact, here in Tennessee and Kentucky, I see SUVs, pickups and the like being put to good use all the time.

I don't have an issue with people using an SUV or pickup if your family, farm, or profession needs it. But there are too many places where they have been a status icon for far too long. Why do people in downtown NYC, Chicago, Vegas, LA need to drive one with only one person in the middle of city traffic. Then go to Dallas/Ft Worth and look at everyone driving them in loops around town on the weekend. You will see that far more often than someone using one for its intended purpose.

I don't want to see a town like Janesville die out but you had to see this coming.

That's the point, if you have an issue with it, then it's your issue. It's still personal choice.

I don't dispute your point that there are many people that have SUVs or the like and maybe don't "need" it. However, that does not equate to "therefore, you may not have one".

Remember that the intended purpose of an SUV is a nearly purely subjective perspective. Compare a Cadillac Escalade and Chevy Suburban. Both nearly identical...yet their intended purpose is clearly different.

Also, back to my first point, just because you see only one person doesn't mean they're it. It's more cost effective to have one large vehicle than two different ones.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Also, back to my first point, just because you see only one person doesn't mean they're it. It's more cost effective to have one large vehicle than two different ones.

No doubt, and I didn't argue that with you. However if they are closing four plants and sales are down it's because the economic impact of driving one is greater than the status icon of having one. Those that still need them will get one either way.

We will see more of this. Those sitting in a board room will make an choice and the blue collars will suffer. It's only going to get worse from here. It's times like this I really wish we had an Administration that spent the last 8 years putting money into alternative fuel resources instead of pushing for more drilling.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jcd11235 0]

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It's more cost effective to have one large vehicle than two different ones.

Sometimes, sometimes not. There are a lot of variables that need to be considered. If the SUV is only needed once per week, then it's likely that a second small car for the other six days will be cost effective. OTOH, if the SUV is needed six days per week, then it's probably not going to be cost effective to get a second, smaller car.

For most people, the biggest considerations will be the additional insurance costs, the amount of decreased depreciation of the SUV, cost of second smaller car, difference in fuel economy and number of miles driven in the smaller car instead of the SUV.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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Also, back to my first point, just because you see only one person doesn't mean they're it. It's more cost effective to have one large vehicle than two different ones.

No doubt, and I didn't argue that with you. However if they are closing four plants and sales are down it's because the economic impact of driving one is greater than the status icon of having one. Those that still need them will get one either way.

No doubt. I find it ironic though that these plants can't be retooled to make a sh*t-ton of Chevy Malibus and Cobalts though.

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We will see more of this. Those sitting in a board room will make an choice and the blue collars will suffer. It's only going to get worse from here. It's times like this I really wish we had an Administration that spent the last 8 years putting money into alternative fuel resources instead of pushing for more drilling.

If GM didn't have so much overhead for each vehicle it makes, it wouldn't be in this position. Management gets the final say and jobs will suffer, but only because they cowed to crazy repetitive demands of the labor they sought to keep satiated.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Only retards buy American cars and get bent because they fall apart so soon, should have gone with honda or toyota.

UAW, good riddens, their to blame for their job's going to mexico and the great white north, I would gladly cross their picket line and even run a few of them over in my new 2008 honda, and laugh my ass off doing it.

Threat removed. Your one warning.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[livendive 8]

Quote

>I need a pickup part of the time.

So rent one when you need it. You can get them from U-haul-it, Hertz, even Home Depot.

In the last week I needed it Friday to carry stuff to the DZ and Sunday to get home. In a month or two things will be settled enough at our new location that a car could work about half the weekends, but we're not there yet. I needed it yesterday to take some stuff to recycle and to Goodwill. With some breaking down, I could have done that in two or three car trips. I need it tomorrow to take a mattress & boxspring to Goodwill. I need it Friday to take a rig rack (6'x6'x3') to the DZ along with my generator (plus fuel), dog crate, etc, and Sunday to haul my trailer into town and back to dump tanks and then return home with the usual stuff, including trash from the weekend. With the DZ 90 miles away, it wouldn't be economical to take a rental truck.

Honestly, I currently use my truck as a truck at least a 2 or 3 times a week. With some inconvenience, I could probably reduce that by half within the next month or two. A rental truck would suck to tow the trailer to Prairie, etc, and I'd be stuck paying for a rental and going through the inconvenience of reserving, picking up, and dropping off the bare bones model of questionable reliability at least 2-3 times a month, plus cramming myself into some little car the rest of the time. It may be that I'll be able to justify an old Geo Metro or something with liability only coverage by the end of the season, but until then I'll be doing my daily commute in something I actually enjoy driving.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I need a pickup part of the time. The costs of buying, maintaining, and insuring an additional vehicle are not justified by the price of fuel, even at $5.00/gallon. Given that it would cost me substantially more to own a second vehicle and I'd like driving it a lot less than I like driving my truck, what's my motivation?

Renting can be a lot cheaper than owning espceially if you stay away from (it) Hertz. I paid $19.95 plus tax to Home Depot the last time I needed a pickup truck.

If you live in a sufficiently non-urban area that parking's not a problem, ownership may not be that bad. When I had more room and more toys I spent about $100 a year to insure a truck. List price on the insurance was about $200/six months but I got a ~$150/six month multi-car discount. Purchase price was $2000. With gas at $4 a gallon and 15 highway MPG difference having two vehicles wins not long after the first year in which you don't drive 8000 miles in the thirstier vehicle.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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>I need a pickup part of the time.

So rent one when you need it. You can get them from U-haul-it, Hertz, even Home Depot.

In the last week I needed it Friday to carry stuff to the DZ and Sunday to get home. In a month or two things will be settled enough at our new location that a car could work about half the weekends, but we're not there yet. I needed it yesterday to take some stuff to recycle and to Goodwill. With some breaking down, I could have done that in two or three car trips. I need it tomorrow to take a mattress & boxspring to Goodwill. I need it Friday to take a rig rack (6'x6'x3') to the DZ along with my generator (plus fuel), dog crate, etc, and Sunday to haul my trailer into town and back to dump tanks and then return home with the usual stuff, including trash from the weekend. With the DZ 90 miles away, it wouldn't be economical to take a rental truck.

Honestly, I currently use my truck as a truck at least a 2 or 3 times a week. With some inconvenience, I could probably reduce that by half within the next month or two. A rental truck would suck to tow the trailer to Prairie, etc, and I'd be stuck paying for a rental and going through the inconvenience of reserving, picking up, and dropping off the bare bones model of questionable reliability at least 2-3 times a month, plus cramming myself into some little car the rest of the time. It may be that I'll be able to justify an old Geo Metro or something with liability only coverage by the end of the season, but until then I'll be doing my daily commute in something I actually enjoy driving.

Blues,
Dave

Goodwill does pickups.

Trailer hitches (which will tow a utility trailer for Stuff) are available for most cars,. I knew one guy that used one with a stubby trailer to haul tires to the track behind his Porsche 993 Turbo.

Many people who like driving have more fun in sporty cars that get 350+ miles out of a 14 gallon tank than a truck that does worse.

What you already own is often cheapest to you, but most peoples' arguments for getting a new-to-them truck don't hold water (boat and horse trailers being the obvious exceptions)

[livendive 8]

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I need a pickup part of the time. The costs of buying, maintaining, and insuring an additional vehicle are not justified by the price of fuel, even at $5.00/gallon. Given that it would cost me substantially more to own a second vehicle and I'd like driving it a lot less than I like driving my truck, what's my motivation?

Renting can be a lot cheaper than owning espceially if you stay away from (it) Hertz. I paid $19.95 plus tax to Home Depot the last time I needed a pickup truck.

If you live in a sufficiently non-urban area that parking's not a problem, ownership may not be that bad. When I had more room and more toys I spent about $100 a year to insure a truck. List price on the insurance was about $200/six months but I got a ~$150/six month multi-car discount.

Yeah, if I lived in an urban area where parking was a problem, I'd probably be less enamored with the daily use of a pickup. Last time I used a Home Depot truck, the $19.95 only got a short period of use, after which it went up to $35/hour or something like that. Plus it was only available to transport stuff I'd bought from Home Depot and it was a flatbed, so it wouldn't be particularly useful for dump runs, etc. I pay a lot more than $100/year to insure my truck, but I have full coverage and the truck stickered at slightly over $40k when I bought it last year. Perhaps that price would be feasible for liability only on an old beater truck, allowing me to buy a halfway enjoyable car for regular driving, but then I'd be worried about reliability during the 8k+ hard miles (offroad, snow, and/or towing) I'd put on it each year.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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What you already own is often cheapest to you, but most peoples' arguments for getting a new-to-them truck don't hold water (boat and horse trailers being the obvious exceptions)

My 28' travel trailer likely outweighs most ski boats. In the near future I won't need to move it nearly as often as I do now, and a lot less frequently than in the last few years (twice/wknd, 6 mo/yr). At that point, I'll re-examine the economics and perhaps mix things up, but the rental truck thing just ain't gonna work for me.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[BillyVance 35]

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Good way to put the screws to those unions. (I know, completely off the point)

Yeah. And have your vehicles built w/ cheap labor in Mexico. I bought a 1999 NEW Dodge Ram. Started falling apart at 5000 miles. Found a "ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO" sticker on the driver door jam. The farmers (big corps.) are also moving to mexico for cheap labor amongst other things. production>DOWN 40%. Imagine that. I love NAFTA.

I don't like NAFTA either, but I don't like the way the unions control the auto plants. I don't have specifics, but times are changing, especially down here in Alabama. We now have Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai building union-free vehicles, and all these workers are making an honest living, at least $24/hour and up. There's a Toyota V8 engine plant here also and VW is looking into building a big auto plant in north Alabama, or Tennessee. I bet if they pick Alabama, it'll be union-free as well.

Look at it this way, unions sometimes protect their bad or unproductive employees, and the products suffer as a result in varying ways. You slack off down here or something, you face the consequences. Honda's doing great and is building another addition to their plant.

Nothing against you personally, if the union works for you in your job, great.

I have a Toyota Tundra with 145K miles, and a Mazda Protege with 197K miles and both still run great, and a Pontiac Vibe with 45K miles that's adequate (assembled in CA), but we really need a minivan. If I could find a good deal on a Honda Oddyssey, I'd be set for the next 10 years.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban