Gun folks: please help!

[Stuntbabex 0]

We both live in OC, we both jump at Perris/Elsinore...

why the hell havent I met you yet??

Anyhow, I voted.

[skymiles 3]

Quote

http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/5455

U.N. Readies for Draft on Small Arms Control Treaty
Wed, 2007-04-25 04:59
By Thalif Deen - Inter Press Service.

You're right - it's a done deal.

I'll let the UN know they can come by to pick up my handgun. This Thursday is good for me.

Do you have their number?

[AWL71 0]

Done. Glad to help out a fellow "firearms enthusiast."

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

There are no Constitutional rights being infringed here. It's an election for the Sheriff's office. Elections should not be tampered with by outsiders.

As Nightingale points out, it's not an election, it's an appointment.

And the Sheriff's being considered for appointment have different views on how their job should be done.

Law officers probably have more day-to-day contact with constitutional issues than any other profession. How they view those constitutional rights should be very important to all of the citizens.

The right to keep and bear arms is one of those rights. If a Sheriff refuses to issue concealed carry permits to honest citizens as allowed by state law, then that's a very serious consideration.

So, there ARE numerous constitutional issues at stake with the appointment of a sheriff.

Their job is to enforce the law as passed by the legislature, not to make their own laws based upon their personal feelings.

This is why the huge majority of the states have "must issue" systems. That means that if the citizen qualifies for the permit as set out by the criteria in state law, then the sheriff must issue the permit, and he has no personal discretion in the matter to do otherwise.

And any sheriff that would deny a legal gun carry permit to an honest citizen because of their personal opinion, is not one that I would ever approve of.

[piper17 1]

http://disarmament.un.org/cab/salw.html

(212) 963 1234 - This one should get you started.

Tell me the type of handgun...maybe I will take it off your hands.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

It's a local issue (one of my own as well I might add) and it ought to stay that way.

Human rights are never a local issue. The northern states were right to stay off the side lines when southern states were still denying civil rights to blacks in the same way the rest of the country is right to stand up for Californians with our repressive government.

Apart from that with air travel nearly everything has become local.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

http://disarmament.un.org/cab/salw.html

(212) 963 1234 - This one should get you started.

Tell me the type of handgun...maybe I will take it off your hands.

You do realize that it's the "Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects," yes?


It's about enabling an international legal mechanism to limit the sale and distribution and make criminal the actions illegal arms dealers who sell to al Qa'eda; Hezbollah; the Taliban; Algeria’s GIA, Philippines MORO and Abu Sayyaf, Columbia’s FARC and ELN, Lebanon’s Asbat al-Ansar, Pakistan’s Jaysh-e-Mohammed, rebel groups in Sierra Leone, Angola, Sudan, ect; and transnational organized crime.


Your (assumedly) legally acquired firearm is not the issue.

Article 10: "Reaffirming also the right of each State to manufacture, import and retain small arms and light weapons for its self-defence and security needs".

Clearly delineates not directed toward intra-state (i.e., domestic for those of us in the US) laws:

Article 8. "Reaffirming our respect for and commitment to international law and the purposes and principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, including the sovereign equality of States, territorial integrity, the peaceful resolution of international disputes, non-intervention and non-interference in the internal affairs of States."

It's not about legally owned and operated firearms.

Illegal and criminal trafficking and sale of small arms internationally are the issues.

Article 5. "Recognizing that the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons in all its aspects sustains conflicts, exacerbates violence, contributes to the displacement of civilians, undermines respect for international humanitarian law, impedes the provision of humanitarian assistance to victims of armed conflict and fuels crime and terrorism.

Article 6. "Gravely concerned about its devastating consequences on children, many of whom are victims of armed conflict or are forced to become child soldiers ...

Article 7. "Concerned also about the close link between terrorism, organized crime, trafficking in drugs and precious minerals and the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons, and stressing the urgency of international efforts and cooperation aimed at combating this trade simultaneously from both a supply and demand perspective."

While I can hope that you might re-evaluate your opinions & conclusions, I recognize that there's a tremendous amount of mis-information that's been clouded by rhetoric & connections to domestic gun control/restriction efforts.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

It's a local issue (one of my own as well I might add) and it ought to stay that way.

Human rights are never a local issue.

Oh for the love . . . you guys crack me up with how you can justify sticking your noses into anything based on this gun rights crap and try to make it into a "human rights" issue. FFS it's Orange County, California. You make it sound like you're doing something noble to save humanity.

F'in' amazing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Their job is to enforce the law as passed by the legislature, not to make their own laws based upon their personal feelings.

damn straight - that's why we have a judiciary branch

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

This is why the huge majority of the states have "must issue" systems. That means that if the citizen qualifies for the permit as set out by the criteria in state law, then the sheriff must issue the permit, and he has no personal discretion in the matter to do otherwise.

seriously, there SHOULD be absolutely no need for a 'must issue' systems - it should be standard and not need reinforcement. It just shows that no matter where you are or what you do, there are people that just don't get the idea of personal freedoms

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

It's a local issue (one of my own as well I might add) and it ought to stay that way.

Human rights are never a local issue.

Oh for the love . . . you guys crack me up with how you can justify sticking your noses into anything based on this gun rights crap and try to make it into a "human rights" issue. FFS it's Orange County, California. You make it sound like you're doing something noble to save humanity.

F'in' amazing.

Oddly enough, I don't recall you making the same howl of protest over Virgina Tech... oh, wait...that was people talking about banning guns, my bad.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

Oddly enough, I don't recall you making the same howl of protest over Virgina Tech... oh, wait...that was people talking about banning guns, my bad.

Do you you recall me ever trying to influence the appointment of law officials at a local level outside of my area?

I thought not.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Oddly enough, I don't recall you making the same howl of protest over Virgina Tech... oh, wait...that was people talking about banning guns, my bad.

Do you you recall me ever trying to influence the appointment of law officials at a local level outside of my area?

I thought not.

You didn't seem to have a problem with people "sticking their noses" into the situation at VT.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

You didn't seem to have a problem with people "sticking their noses" into the situation at VT.

You're way off base here.

If you can prove to me where I've EVER suggested people try to influence something like this, then do so, otherwise STFU.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

While I can hope that you might re-evaluate your opinions & conclusions, I recognize that there's a tremendous amount of mis-information that's been clouded by rhetoric & connections to domestic gun control/restriction efforts.

It's hard to ignore local efforts, where proponents are often very open about their deceit and true intent. Then when you see proposals that only address illicit trade, you see through the smokescreen. Case in point, Kallend blames gun owners for gun thefts, not burglars. The next step to prevent gun theft is to stop gun ownership.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

You didn't seem to have a problem with people "sticking their noses" into the situation at VT.

You're way off base here.

If you can prove to me where I've EVER suggested people try to influence something like this, then do so, otherwise STFU.

Otherwise STFU??? WTF is that, coming from a mod? Where did I say that YOU were suggesting anything? Well, anything other than suggesting concealed carry holders are "Rambos" or "Brownshirts", that is, oh Arbiter of Evenhandedness.

Show me where you've ever done ANYTHING but hold people who advocate for the 2nd Amendment in anything OTHER than contempt, and I'll be convinced that you're on the side of the angels in this argument and not just letting your bias show (again).

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

You're more than welcome to your opinion.

Yes, STFU is coming from a mod that also happens to be a person that lives in the area being affected by the topic at hand.

The selection of Sheriff should have nothing to do with your outside opinion of the candidate's views on guns. My local Sheriff should have NO say in gun policy. HIS job should be to enforce the policy whatever it is. Not change it, not lobby for it, not be a cheerleader for the gun or anti-gun lobby.

In fact, guns and gun control aren't the major issue in this appointment but you people are trying to make them an issue and in doing so are just screwing with the system and distracting for far more important issues.

What you and others are doing is dishonest and unethical.

I say STFU because it seems to be the only type of language that actually gets you to pay attention.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The selection of Sheriff should have nothing to do with your outside opinion of the candidate's views on guns. My local Sheriff should have NO say in gun policy. HIS job should be to enforce the policy whatever it is. Not change it, not lobby for it, not be a cheerleader for the gun or anti-gun lobby.

The sheriff has always been integral to the question of CCW permits, by law. All applicants go to the sheriff of their county. And since the state is a may issue one, he or she decides if the cause justifies the permit. Only by making the state a shall issue one do you remove the sheriff from the question.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I say STFU because it seems to be the only type of language that actually gets you to pay attention.

so if a non moderator used that excuse, you're going to let inappropriate postings slide?

(well, if they agree with your viewpoint, perhaps)

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quade should be banned just like anyone else would.

If not, then why have rules at all?

Unless some people are self important, and consider themselves to have more rights than others.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quade should be banned just like anyone else would.

If not, then why have rules at all?

Unless some people are self important, and consider themselves to have more rights than others.

Whoa now.... what Quade said WASN'T a PA - it just seemed a bit over the top for one of the 'peacekeepers' of the forum to be that inflammatory, and it took me by surprise.

This is obviously a 'trigger' issue from HIS side of the argument as it is from ours.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quade should be banned just like anyone else would.

If not, then why have rules at all?

Unless some people are self important, and consider themselves to have more rights than others.

Whoa now.... what Quade said WASN'T a PA - it just seemed a bit over the top for one of the 'peacekeepers' of the forum to be that inflammatory, and it took me by surprise.

This is obviously a 'trigger' issue from HIS side of the argument as it is from ours.

Thanks. At least we can agree on what is and is not a PA.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I just voted and I am not an American; although when I was living at Neil's house in Casa Grande last year I guess I qualified as an illegal immigrant.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Quote

Oh for the love . . . you guys crack me up with how you can justify sticking your noses into anything based on this gun rights crap and try to make it into a "human rights" issue.

Self defense IS a human rights issue.

If you're willing to ignore rights abuses in other places, then you don't have room to complain when those same abuses come to your own home town.

You need to "nip it in the bud", like Barney Fife used to say.

Then there is this quote:

    "In Germany, they first came for the communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then, they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. 

Then they came for the Catholics.

I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak up."


- Reverend Martin Niemoller, German Lutheran pastor arrested

by the Gestapo, 1937, a decorated U-Boat skipper during WWI.

If gun owners don't fight these abuses, wherever they occur, then it allows the abuses to spread unchecked, until one day, they end up like Rev. Niemoller.

Quade: Are you really afraid that cute little ole' Nightingale is going to murder someone with her concealed handgun?

[mamajumps 0]

voted!