Scott McClellan Interview...... <<<crickets>>> Come on guys you can attack him like the rest of the fringe right.

[Amazon 7]

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Plame - conservatives ask questions, liberals don't answer, liberals crowe about the injustice done to this poor woman, conservatives ask the same questions, liberals again won't answer, liberals crowe about the injustice done to this poor woman...the circle continues.

And some people want to know WHY.. an administration that is in DESPARATE need of human intelligence... and what do they do... by outting Plame they destroy contacts and humint built over years of work..... for their political gain and not for the good of the American people.... well done right wing

[TheAnvil 0]

And again...who was it that revealed Ms. Plame worked for the CIA?

Ahhh...you won't answer. Mr. Armitage, a man never charged by Mr. Fitzgerald. Career State'er, by the way.

When you have faced that fact, come and we'll chat. Spew virtriol or whatever until then. Until you face facts, nobody's listening seriously.

Enjoy your iced tea until then...it worked for Al Gore...EVERYONE believed him ...

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

You still do not face the facts and answer the nasty little question. Your imperious leaders in the administration sold out a group of people who had served this country far better than any of them had.... you dont like the truth because you cant handle the truth.

That is a sad commentary on ther Americanism and those who support them.

[jcd11235 0]

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And again...who was it that revealed Ms. Plame worked for the CIA?

Ahhh...you won't answer. Mr. Armitage, a man never charged by Mr. Fitzgerald.

No, he wasn't the one responsible for revealing it. Whoever wrote the memo from which he read the name was responsible, or whoever ordered the name written in said memo. That the name of a classified operative is not supposed to be written in such memos is made perfectly clear in the interview by Wolf Blitzer posted previously in this thread. Blaming Armitage for revealing Plame's identity is as ingenuous as claiming guns typically kill people without any interaction from humans.

I thought you understood the significance of the fact the name was revealed in the memo received by Armitage when you replied to my previous post in which I pointed it out. I guess I should have been more clear. I apologize.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 2,146]

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And again...who was it that revealed Ms. Plame worked for the CIA?

Ahhh...you won't answer. Mr. Armitage, a man never charged by Mr. Fitzgerald.

No, he wasn't the one responsible for revealing it. Whoever wrote the memo from which he read the name was responsible, or whoever ordered the name written in said memo. That the name of a classified operative is not supposed to be written in such memos is made perfectly clear in the interview by Wolf Blitzer posted previously in this thread. Blaming Armitage for revealing Plame's identity is as ingenuous as claiming guns typically kill people without any interaction from humans.

I thought you understood the significance of the fact the name was revealed in the memo received by Armitage when you replied to my previous post in which I pointed it out. I guess I should have been more clear. I apologize.

Give the righties a break - nitpicking is all they have going for them right now.

Back to the big picture - McClellan is a sleaze who worked as a mouthpiece for the sleaziest administration in recent history, and they are pissed at him but unable to deny his allegations.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Mr. Armitage .... Career State'er, by the way.

Really?

I was under the impression that after graduating from the USNA and serving in Vietnam as a Navy officer, he was on the DIA career officer path (iirc, Defense Attache) before becoming a professional staff member working in Sen Bob Dole's office (ironic tangential connection noted to 'Politico' post cited in this thread). Wasn't Armitage appointed ASD(International Security Affairs) under SecDef Casper Weinberger (under Pres. Reagan)? And he didn't enter State until he was appointed DepSecState? Technically as a political appointee (Class A or C) or as a non-appointee SES, one is not part of the career federal service ... at least not a DoD; it would surprise me if the case was different at State.


As to why he was never pursued by Mr. Fitzgerald, my speculation -- & that's all it is -- is that it was because he 'fess'd up' and took responsibility for his actions:

"'Oh I feel terrible. Every day, I think I let down the president. I let down the Secretary of State. I let down my department, my family and I also let down Mr. and Mrs. Wilson.'

"When asked if he feels he owes the Wilsons an apology, he says, 'I think I've just done it.'

"'I didn't know the woman's name was Plame. I didn't know she was an operative.' He says he was reading Novak's newspaper column again, on Oct. 1, 2003, and 'he said he was told by a non-partisan gun slinger.'

"'I almost immediately called Secretary Powell and said, "I'm sure that was me,"' Armitage says.

"Armitage immediately met with FBI agents investigating the leak. 'I told them that I was the inadvertent leak,' Armitage says. He didn't get a lawyer, however.

"'First of all, I felt so terrible about what I'd done that I felt I deserved whatever was coming to me. And secondarily, I didn't need an attorney to tell me to tell the truth. I as already doing that,' Armitage explains. 'I was not intentionally outing anybody. As I say, I have tremendous respect for Ambassador. Wilson's African credentials. I didn't know anything about his wife and made an offhand comment. I didn't try to out anybody.'

"Armitage says he didn't come forward because 'the special counsel, once he was appointed, asked me not to discuss this and I honored his request.'

"'I thought every day about how I'd screwed up,' he adds."

He fess'd up, i.e., personal responsibility; he explained this situation and cooperated with Mr. Fitzgerald - I accept that he is honestly relating what he did -- a non-malicious screw up, we've all done it ... he took responsibility for his actions; he wasn't in denial; and he wasn't switching blame or making the issue about anyone else.

He also has not pursued another civil service position post-DepSecState; it was much assumed inside the Beltway that he would get a very high level advisory position at DIA or CIA post-State. He hasn't.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[TheAnvil 0]

And the person who wrote said memo - or told the man in conversation without alluding to its classification level - KNEW Mr. Armitage would be in an interview on the topic of Mr. Wilson and also KNEW that Armitage would state that bit of info? No way. NADA. Someone has seen far too many 007 movies - or taken them too seriously at any rate.

You're correct (partially at least). Womoever wrote the memo - or told Mr. Armitage - is responsible for the spillage. Mr. Armitage is the one who, after reading or hearing it, released the info to the press.

Unlike liberals, I'll answer just about any question you choose to pose there, Amazon. Want to tell my why you support racial discrimination for collegiate admission today? You never seem to answer. How about why the nation should elect a man who, by his own admission, believes a tax system is about fairness and not raising revenue for the government? You won't answer either. Spew vitriol perhaps, but never answer. Many others I could pose that you won't answer. Just not in the liberal nature. Fact avoidance, you see.

Enjoy your iced tea, left wingers! I hear Al Gore preferred Lipton. Not sure why Johnny Huang wasn't drinking tea...perhaps he had better bladder control.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Hmmm...sounds like I heard he was a civil servant or in gov't service his entire career and assumed it was State. I was wrong (hi bill hehehehe
Offhand comments in conversations and memos, made by people who work w/such information frequently, are how the majority of spillages occur, I would imagine. Most of them are probably never caught.



He probably wasn't prosecuted because he was honest. I'd like to hope that, at any rate. Too bad for everyone that he's not pursuing/going to get another job.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jcd11235 0]

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And the person who wrote said memo - or told the man in conversation without alluding to its classification level - KNEW Mr. Armitage would be in an interview on the topic of Mr. Wilson and also KNEW that Armitage would state that bit of info? No way. NADA.

Why do you find that unlikely that the memo writer saw a high probability of the information making it to the press?

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Mr. Armitage is the one who, after reading or hearing it, released the info to the press.

Agreed. But I don't see any indication that he was aware that the information was classified when he did so.

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Enjoy your iced tea, left wingers!

I typically prefer coffee, thanks. Perhaps not as refined as tea, but it sure beats the Kool-Aid.

[lawrocket 3]

No. Clinton did not do it first. Well, some things he did.

Bush, Jr. took what Clinton did politically and improved and expanded it.

Clinton merely took from Bush, Sr., and improved and exanded it.

Bush, Sr. improved upon Reagan.

Reagan improved upon Carter.

Carter - he's an exception. He did things differently. The last idealist we've had in office.

Ford - let's forget about him.

Nixon - took what LBJ did to the limit.

LBJ - shall we continue?

Vinnie is right, Professor.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

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No. Clinton did not do it first. Well, some things he did.

Bush, Jr. took what Clinton did politically and improved and expanded it.

Clinton merely took from Bush, Sr., and improved and exanded it.

Bush, Sr. improved upon Reagan.

Reagan improved upon Carter.

Carter - he's an exception. He did things differently. The last idealist we've had in office.

Ford - let's forget about him.

Nixon - took what LBJ did to the limit.

LBJ - shall we continue?

Vinnie is right, Professor.

Since when is "he/she did it first" an excuse for unacceptable behavior? Bush Jr's unacceptable behavior is worse than any predecessor since Nixon. In addition to which he's an incompetent.

Bush Jr's legacy will be:
Interminable war entered under false pretenses,
Failure to catch public enemy #1,
US Dollar at all time low,
US credibility at all time low,
Traditional allies pissed off with us,
Zero or negative progress on environmental issues,
Trade deficit at all time high,
National Debt at all time high by large margin,
Failed education program,
Failure to achieve his "#1 priority" (SS reform),
Millions of high paying jobs exported,
Wider gap between rich and poor Americans
Failure to achieve immigration reform,
Endorsement of torture as official US policy,
Tapping American's phones without a warrant,
Evading Constitutional protections by shipping suspected undesirables to secret overseas prisons,
Imprisonment of US citizens without trial,
"Signing statements",
Overriding FOI Act as one of his first actions as president.

Other than that, his administration has been just great.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

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Since when is "he/she did it first" an excuse for unacceptable behavior? Bush Jr's unacceptable behavior is worse than any predecessor since Nixon. In addition to which he's an incompetent.

Bush Jr's legacy will be:
Interminable war entered under false pretenses,
Failure to catch public enemy #1,
US Dollar at all time low,
US credibility at all time low,
Traditional allies pissed off with us,
Zero or negative progress on environmental issues,
Trade deficit at all time high,
National Debt at all time high by large margin,
Failed education program,
Failure to achieve his "#1 priority" (SS reform),
Millions of high paying jobs exported,
Wider gap between rich and poor Americans
Failure to achieve immigration reform,
Endorsement of torture as official US policy,
Tapping American's phones without a warrant,
Evading Constitutional protections by shipping suspected undesirables to secret overseas prisons,
Imprisonment of US citizens without trial,
"Signing statements",
Overriding FOI Act as one of his first actions as president.

Other than that, his administration has been just great.

So what you're saying is, except for his foreign policy and his domestic policy, President Bush has not been responsible for any spectacular failures as President? That sounds reasonable.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

*bolding mine in both excerpts*

Oh, snap!

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MR. McCLELLAN: And, David, we very much appreciate his service. That's the President's view. We appreciate his service. Again, I think I would say what I said a minute ago, that while I certainly haven't seen the book, I've just seen what you all have seen, but it just appears to be more about trying to justify personal views and opinions than it does about looking at the results we're achieving on behalf of the American people. And that's where the President is going to keep his focus, on the results we're trying to accomplish for the American people.

Oh, snap redux

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MR. McCLELLAN: Well, why, all of a sudden, if he had all these grave concerns, did he not raise these sooner? This is one-and-a-half years after he left the administration. And now, all of a sudden, he's raising these grave concerns that he claims he had. And I think you have to look at some of the facts. One, he is bringing this up in the heat of a presidential campaign. He has written a book and he certainly wants to go out there and promote that book. Certainly let's look at the politics of it. His best buddy is Rand Beers, who is the principal foreign policy advisor to Senator Kerry's campaign. The Kerry campaign went out and immediately put these comments up on their website that Mr. Clarke made.

But of course, with HIM (McLellan) it's just DIFFERENT....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

I'm sure you think you have a point there somewhere, besides the fact that the Press Secretary serves at the President's pleasure.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

Let's see...what was that quote? Oh, yes....

"some critical reading skills", I believe it was?

What does the Press Secretary serving at the convenience of the President have to do with the quotes above?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TheAnvil 0]

Read the post above yours. Memo's in gov't are written daily - thousands of them unclassified. Most of them never see press. I believe a more salient query would be why would left wingers living in a 007-esque fantasy world of conspiracy would think the contents of a single memo or conversation with any government official would end up in the press.

Iced tea is the choice drink of liberals trying to avoid facts. You should try it! It worked well for Al Gore...after that excuse he was on a Presidential ticket! Iced tea for ALL my liberal friends!

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Friedman's recent book, in addition to a bit of reading on economics, would be superb reading for you, Sir John. THE WORLD IS FLAT 'tis the name. Good read. Perhaps sitting in on a fellow professor's entry level econ courses would clear a few things up. Not sure if I recommended them to you, but The Economist and Foreign Affairs would be superb publications to start reading. Replace moronic TIME or NEWSWEEK with The Economist and Foreign Affairs is but a pittance per quarter. Very good reading.

You'll find many conservatives and libertarians enraged by the current state of affairs and by some of this administrations performances in many areas. It's quite bewildering that you think we'd abandon all sense and principle because of that, however.

i disagree with you that this administration is sleazier than El Jefe Clintonista's. Do you REALLY want to go into iced tea, Rose Law firm records, Pauline Kanchalachak, and the like? Could go on for a long time and nothing productive would come of it. THink as you like - I always do. And drink up on the iced tea. Be like Al Gore! He was a vice president and almost president, you know.

You completely miss my point, by the way. McClellan has a SUPERB point that the constant campaign mentality pervading DC is a cancer. A poor deal for the nation. Set your partisanship aside for a second and think on that for a bit. Left wingers are so giddy and right wingers so angry that this point is being lost. It's a good point that has rarely been brought up publicly - and it should be brought up repeatedly.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jcd11235 0]

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What does the Press Secretary serving at the convenience of the President have to do with the quotes above?

The Press Secretary is an official voice for the Office of the POTUS. D you really believe that they can speak freely, speak their conscience?

It's amazing how many former Cabinet members of this administration have since come forward and spoken more candidly. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Your links don't indicate anything except that McClellan took his professional responsibility seriously. His book indicates he also takes his integrity seriously now that he is able to speak candidly and truthfully about his experience in the White House.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

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You completely miss my point, by the way. McClellan has a SUPERB point that the constant campaign mentality pervading DC is a cancer. A poor deal for the nation.

Agreed, and well said. It's been said in other posts before, but it's evident that politicians are more interested in the next campaign and soundbites that will make then look good to the voters than doing what is right.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TheAnvil 0]

They're busy campaigning and not leading. Some afraid to do something unpopular. I honestly think EJC...er...WJC was the worst I can remember. GWB CLEARLY isn't scared to do something unpopular, though Lord knows he's in constant campaign mode sometimes. Stupid steel tariff thing during his first term, for instance - DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jcd11235 0]

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Read the post above yours. Memo's in gov't are written daily - thousands of them unclassified. Most of them never see press. I believe a more salient query would be why would left wingers living in a 007-esque fantasy world of conspiracy would think the contents of a single memo or conversation with any government official would end up in the press.

I have no idea. You'll have to ask a "left winger living in a 007-esque fantasy world of conspiracy" to get that answer. You'll probably find him in a cantina somewhere arguing over warm beer with a right wing nut-case who believes that Suddam posed an imminent threat to the United States.

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Iced tea is the choice drink of liberals trying to avoid facts.

It doesn't appear that I am the one trying to avoid facts.

[mnealtx 0]

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What does the Press Secretary serving at the convenience of the President have to do with the quotes above?

The Press Secretary is an official voice for the Office of the POTUS. D you really believe that they can speak freely, speak their conscience?

It's amazing how many former Cabinet members of this administration have since come forward and spoken more candidly. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Your links don't indicate anything except that McClellan took his professional responsibility seriously. His book indicates he also takes his integrity seriously now that he is able to speak candidly and truthfully about his experience in the White House.

Ok.... so BEFORE, he was lying about everything but NOW he's telling the truth? All this proves is that he is STILL willing to lie for money (I suppose it helps when you have Soros bankrolling your publisher, too). Where was this vaunted integrity of his when he was in office, and if he was SO troubled by all this, why did he wait so long to leave?

This proves nothing but that you are a poor judge of character, if you only start believing someone when they agree with you. (Also applicable to the media bias conversation, come to think of it)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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Friedman's recent book, in addition to a bit of reading on economics, would be superb reading for you, Sir John. THE WORLD IS FLAT 'tis the name. Good read. Perhaps sitting in on a fellow professor's entry level econ courses would clear a few things up. Not sure if I recommended them to you, but The Economist and Foreign Affairs would be superb publications to start reading. Replace moronic TIME or NEWSWEEK with The Economist and Foreign Affairs is but a pittance per quarter. Very good reading.

You'll find many conservatives and libertarians enraged …

LOL. I hope you can appreciate the irony of implying Kallend needs a better understanding of economics, and then referencing how Libertarians currently feel enraged.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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Ok.... so BEFORE, he was lying about everything but NOW he's telling the truth? All this proves is that he is STILL willing to lie for money (I suppose it helps when you have Soros bankrolling your publisher, too). Where was this vaunted integrity of his when he was in office, and if he was SO troubled by all this, why did he wait so long to leave?

He wasn't knowingly lying then, either. He was telling the press what he was being told to tell them.

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This proves nothing but that you are a poor judge of character, if you only start believing someone when they agree with you. (Also applicable to the media bias conversation, come to think of it)

No, I don't think I'd be inclined to have him in my circle of friends before or after he resigned. However, I, unlike you, apparently, am objective enough to understand that just because someone disagrees with me does not mean they're lying.

In the media discussion, since you brought it up, you made an assertion and then you were unable to support that assertion with primary data. It didn't mean you were lying. I'm sure you believe the media has a liberal bias, considering the far-right viewpoint you have (if your posts on this forum are any indication).

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

I made an assertion and backed it up with data - the fact that the data did not satisfy YOUR criteria is immaterial.

Far right viewpoints? Compared to most of the leftist posters in the forum, I suppose that's true. It also helps explain why you see no bias in the media...why, that's how things are SUPPOSED to be!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706