billvon 3,114 #51 May 28, 2008 >Did you have a specific POINT to make . . . If you are using the "who has been personally affected negatively by a president's foreign policy decision" angle as a metric for judging effectiveness of a presidency, Carter was FAR better a president than Bush. If you just wanted to slam a Democrat, then I apologize for thinking your post more complex than it was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #52 May 28, 2008 QuoteNice condescension, thanks. Sorry, I didn't mean to point out the obvious. QuoteSince I'm obviously one of those people that was 'too stupid to keep out of the military' I don't think stupidity is a requirement for military service. My observations from when I served indicated to me that it's not a bar to enlistment, either. Quote… why don't you just explain it to me. Better keep it to words of 2-3 syllables, though...you know how us rednecks are. Which do you think your friends and loved ones would like less, if you died or if you just could not come home for a year and a fourth?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #53 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteare you including corporate welfare as well? Define, please. Well, it's like when the sales taxes of people who go to see a ball game go directly to the wealthy team owners, like G.W. Bush. It's like when the Wal-Mart corporation gets the taxes paid in a TIF district. It's like when the taxpayers bail out banks whose lending practices led them to insolvency. It's like no-bid contractors with connections in the Administration. I'm sure YOU can think of a bunch of examples too. Give it a BREAK, John, unless you can show me in FEDERAL LAW where that happens (taxes to business owners). Taxpayers bailing out banks... that's happened before, as well - but of course, you don't mention THAT. No bid contracts w/connections.... why don't you show me PROOF that it was the 'connections' that got them the contract, John... I've only been asking that for the last 4 years. So you ADMIT that corporate welfare exists, and has existed for years, and you're just nitpicking the details now. I suppose that's progress.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #54 May 29, 2008 I apologize if my point was too vague. Should we make honest efforts to negotiate? Absolutely. As Churchill said "Jaw-jaw is always better than war-war". Sometimes, however, negotiations don't work (such as example I made above). In that case, Si vis pacem, para bellum.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #55 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteare you including corporate welfare as well? Define, please. Well, it's like when the sales taxes of people who go to see a ball game go directly to the wealthy team owners, like G.W. Bush. It's like when the Wal-Mart corporation gets the taxes paid in a TIF district. It's like when the taxpayers bail out banks whose lending practices led them to insolvency. It's like no-bid contractors with connections in the Administration. I'm sure YOU can think of a bunch of examples too. Give it a BREAK, John, unless you can show me in FEDERAL LAW where that happens (taxes to business owners). Taxpayers bailing out banks... that's happened before, as well - but of course, you don't mention THAT. No bid contracts w/connections.... why don't you show me PROOF that it was the 'connections' that got them the contract, John... I've only been asking that for the last 4 years. So you ADMIT that corporate welfare exists, and has existed for years, and you're just nitpicking the details now. I suppose that's progress. Please show where I've *EVER* said that businesses get nothing from the government, John. Another one of your strawmen arguments, I take it? I suppose we can start calling grants and tax monies given to schools and colleges as "educational welfare", by your logic.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #56 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteare you including corporate welfare as well? Define, please. Well, it's like when the sales taxes of people who go to see a ball game go directly to the wealthy team owners, like G.W. Bush. It's like when the Wal-Mart corporation gets the taxes paid in a TIF district. It's like when the taxpayers bail out banks whose lending practices led them to insolvency. It's like no-bid contractors with connections in the Administration. I'm sure YOU can think of a bunch of examples too. Give it a BREAK, John, unless you can show me in FEDERAL LAW where that happens (taxes to business owners). Taxpayers bailing out banks... that's happened before, as well - but of course, you don't mention THAT. No bid contracts w/connections.... why don't you show me PROOF that it was the 'connections' that got them the contract, John... I've only been asking that for the last 4 years. So you ADMIT that corporate welfare exists, and has existed for years, and you're just nitpicking the details now. I suppose that's progress. Please show where I've *EVER* said that businesses get nothing from the government, John. Another one of your strawmen arguments, I take it? I suppose we can start calling grants and tax monies given to schools and colleges as "educational welfare", by your logic. You have a very distorted view of the purpose of taxes. IMO making the rich richer is not one of them. Education benefits everyone.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #57 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuote I suppose we can start calling grants and tax monies given to schools and colleges as "educational welfare", by your logic. You have a very distorted view of the purpose of taxes. IMO making the rich richer is not one of them. Education benefits everyone. Sorry, no situational ethics allowed. tax = tax = tax welfare = welfare = welfare If A, then B.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #58 May 29, 2008 Quote IF all this is true, then WHY haven't the Dems been shouting it on every news show out there? WHY haven't the Dems impeached Bush and Co. *years* ago? Maybe part of it is that when Greenwald testified the committee wouldn't allow his film footage to be shown and entered into the record. Maybe part of the reason is that too many in Washington think like Rep. Jack Kingston, that this fraud is simply capitalism at its finest. Maybe part of it is that Bush's Pentagon leadership enables the fraud by acting actively defending the accused parties. Or maybe it's that the DoD's books are so screwed up that they couldn't be audited if someone wanted to. There are plenty of lousy reasons why nothing has been done about it but that doesn't mean that it didn't/doesn't happen. But just to verify, you're implying that a lack of accountability in Washington makes it ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #59 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote I suppose we can start calling grants and tax monies given to schools and colleges as "educational welfare", by your logic. You have a very distorted view of the purpose of taxes. IMO making the rich richer is not one of them. Education benefits everyone. Sorry, no situational ethics allowed. tax = tax = tax welfare = welfare = welfare If A, then B. "The general welfare" != welfare just for the rich... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #60 May 29, 2008 >Sorry, no situational ethics allowed. >tax = tax = tax Yet by your own posts, local tax != tax. Odd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #61 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuote IF all this is true, then WHY haven't the Dems been shouting it on every news show out there? WHY haven't the Dems impeached Bush and Co. *years* ago? Maybe part of it is that when Greenwald testified the committee wouldn't allow his film footage to be shown and entered into the record. Maybe part of the reason is that too many in Washington think like Rep. Jack Kingston, that this fraud is simply capitalism at its finest. Maybe part of it is that Bush's Pentagon leadership enables the fraud by acting actively defending the accused parties. Or maybe it's that the DoD's books are so screwed up that they couldn't be audited if someone wanted to. There are plenty of lousy reasons why nothing has been done about it but that doesn't mean that it didn't/doesn't happen. But just to verify, you're implying that a lack of accountability in Washington makes it ok? More excuses? With all the "proof" that the liberals keep trotting out to show how everything bad in the world is ALL BUSH'S FAULT, you'd think they'd have gotten impeachment proceedings started by now... And no, I am implying nothing...but you seem to be.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #62 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I suppose we can start calling grants and tax monies given to schools and colleges as "educational welfare", by your logic. You have a very distorted view of the purpose of taxes. IMO making the rich richer is not one of them. Education benefits everyone. Sorry, no situational ethics allowed. tax = tax = tax welfare = welfare = welfare If A, then B. "The general welfare" != welfare just for the rich Gold star for you - perhaps you've forgotten that "the general welfare" applies to ALL, not just the people you want to buy votes from with the latest 'bread and circus' scheme.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #63 May 29, 2008 Quote>Sorry, no situational ethics allowed. >tax = tax = tax Yet by your own posts, local tax != tax. Odd. *sigh* Did ANYONE pass civics class, for God's sake? LOCAL BOND ISSUE != FEDERAL TAX LAW I'm sorry, it can't be made any clearer. Comparing the payment method for a local bond issue to federal tax law is a strawman argument.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #64 May 29, 2008 >With all the "proof" that the liberals keep trotting out to show how >everything bad in the world is ALL BUSH'S FAULT . . . Actually that would be conservatives as well now, McClellan being the latest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #65 May 29, 2008 Quote>With all the "proof" that the liberals keep trotting out to show how >everything bad in the world is ALL BUSH'S FAULT . . . Actually that would be conservatives as well now, McClellan being the latest. Yes, and this has to do with the fact that the Dems *WHINE* about things but don't actually *ACT* on them, how?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #66 May 29, 2008 QuoteLOCAL BOND ISSUE != FEDERAL TAX LAW It's interesting how first you claimed that local sales taxes were not part of the tax structure, which was not true. Now you claim local Bond Issue is not part of federal tax law. Seems like you've twisted your claim to counter a straw man. QuoteDid ANYONE pass civics class … ? I find myself asking that same question.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #67 May 29, 2008 >Yes, and this has to do with the fact that the Dems *WHINE* about >things but don't actually *ACT* on them, how? Calm down, there, Mike! Both parties whine far more than they act, as you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #68 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteLOCAL BOND ISSUE != FEDERAL TAX LAW It's interesting how first you claimed that local sales taxes were not part of the tax structure, which was not true. Now you claim local Bond Issue is not part of federal tax law. Seems like you've twisted your claim to counter a straw man. Incorrect - my point has ALWAYS been that a temporary, local sales tax that was voted for by the citizens of a city or county cannot be equated to the Federal tax system, which is the strawman that was being put forward. Any changes in my delivery were attempts to illustrate that point, nothing more. (Bonus points to you for recognizing their strawman, however)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #69 May 29, 2008 Quote>Yes, and this has to do with the fact that the Dems *WHINE* about >things but don't actually *ACT* on them, how? Calm down, there, Mike! Both parties whine far more than they act, as you know. Absolutely.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #70 May 29, 2008 Quote More excuses? With all the "proof" that the liberals keep trotting out to show how everything bad in the world is ALL BUSH'S FAULT, you'd think they'd have gotten impeachment proceedings started by now... And no, I am implying nothing...but you seem to be. Bush is lamer than lame. His own party doesn't even want much of anything to do with him. Why would the Democratic party risk screwing up what should be a massive win this fall? Besides, when war profiteers, wealthy individuals and large corporations have so much control over our legislature it's pretty easy to throw a wrench into any proceedings. And I'm not implying anything but I will state that I find it interesting that someone who continually makes Vince Foster references has such a difficult time with audio, video, and sworn testimony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #71 May 29, 2008 QuoteBonus points to you for recognizing their strawman, however The only one I saw was the one you built.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #72 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteBonus points to you for recognizing their strawman, however The only one I saw was the one you built. I take back the bonus points, then, and refer you back to the difference between local bond issues (which is what this REALLY is) and federal tax law.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #73 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteBonus points to you for recognizing their strawman, however The only one I saw was the one you built. I take back the bonus points, then, and refer you back to the difference between local bond issues (which is what this REALLY is) and federal tax law tax structure. (straw man removed) Please do.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 May 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBonus points to you for recognizing their strawman, however The only one I saw was the one you built. I take back the bonus points, then, and refer you back to the difference between local bond issues (which is what this REALLY is) and federal tax law. (straw man removed) Please do. I've removed YOUR strawman. If you go back and read the original thread discussing this, what was being discussed in regards to "the tax system favoring the rich" was FEDERAL TAXES. Of course, John then had to throw in his strawman about local bond issues, which is what sparked *THIS* round.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #75 May 29, 2008 QuoteIf you go back and read the original thread discussing this, what was being discussed in regards to "the tax system favoring the rich" was FEDERAL TAXES. Of course, John then had to throw in his strawman about local bond issues, which is what sparked *THIS* round. You're right. I was recalling either a different thread or a post that was edited after I initially read it. Most likely it was the former.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
