jakee 1,596 #101 May 31, 2008 QuoteTemptation to do something you really dont want to do. How could I be tempted to do something I didn't want to do? I've been tempted to do things that I did want to do, but decided not to. QuoteOr have you never met with the struggle for self control before? Sure I have. QuoteNo amount of money in the world, no education good enough will get full trust back from the one who is betrayed. Point being?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #102 May 31, 2008 QuoteQuoteTemptation to do something you really dont want to do. How could I be tempted to do something I didn't want to do? I've been tempted to do things that I did want to do, but decided not to.Quote Hmm. it sounded right when I wrote it, but it sounds better the way you wrote it. But why did you decide not to do it? Is it becasue you really didnt want to, due to consequences of law or of morality? Meaning was it your conscience that stopped you or the law? QuoteOr have you never met with the struggle for self control before? Sure I have.Quote Then your familiar with the conflict within, and you agree that you can be overtaken? QuoteNo amount of money in the world, no education good enough will get full trust back from the one who is betrayed. Point being? I guess the point is if I was tempted by adultery (something I did want to do, but really didnt want to do for reasons only known to myself) and I gave in, I would have to accept that I would never get full trust back from my wife, whom I love. And yet, it has happened and continues to happen to this day, ruining relationships that did not want to be ruined. So, If I do something I (want to do) dont want to do, then I should accept that I have no control over that and that I may be a slave to the origin of that temptaion (and its normally not lust contrary to popular belief, its much much stronger than that), making something greater than me."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #103 June 1, 2008 Absolutely, there is still more for physicists to understand. That does not mean that there is any likelihood of finding evidence of a supernatural creator. You're creating a false dichotomy, much like the one creationists created (no pun intended) with their false evolution/ID dichotomy. If evolution were to be absolutely disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that ID is suddenly a scientifically valid explanation. The same concept applies to cosmology. Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator.*** If my concerns centered only around the origins of the universe then yes you would be correct. But as it is, I have experienced a supernatural Wisdom from a supernatural source. My mind and emotions were trapped in the typical worldly rat race leading to a self-destructive nowhere. By the Grace of God my thoughts and priorities were profoundly redirected to a higher perspective, setting me free in the process. After experiencing this spiritual rejuvenation, connecting the dots that this same God is also responsible for the universe is a no brainer. _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #104 June 1, 2008 Quote Absolutely, there is still more for physicists to understand. That does not mean that there is any likelihood of finding evidence of a supernatural creator. You're creating a false dichotomy, much like the one creationists created (no pun intended) with their false evolution/ID dichotomy. If evolution were to be absolutely disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that ID is suddenly a scientifically valid explanation. The same concept applies to cosmology. Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator.*** If my concerns centered only around the origins of the universe then yes you would be correct. But as it is, I have experienced a supernatural Wisdom from a supernatural source. My mind and emotions were trapped in the typical worldly rat race leading to a self-destructive nowhere. By the Grace of God my thoughts and priorities were profoundly redirected to a higher perspective, setting me free in the process. After experiencing this spiritual rejuvenation, connecting the dots that this same God is also responsible for the universe is a no brainer. And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #105 June 1, 2008 Point being? "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God", "Our righteousness are as filthy rags" We need help in being restored to our rightful place in the universe. There is no higher honor than unimpeded communion with God. ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #106 June 1, 2008 And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. What do you think Isaac Newton would have said if someone in his time suggested the standard model of particle physics? Would he have immediately rejected it saying Why, that can't be true, there is just no evidence to support it. The acquisition of evidence is not an exclusive property, limited only to the scientific method. The healing, restorative power of God that fills the soul/mind of the believer, is evidence enough for anyone who has experienced it. ____________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #107 June 1, 2008 Quote And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. If ever there is any credible evidence of a supernatural creator, I'll revisit the issue. However, thus far there is none, zero, nada, zip.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #108 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuote And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. If ever there is any credible evidence of a supernatural creator, I'll revisit the issue. However, thus far there is none, zero, nada, zip. "Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator." Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #109 June 1, 2008 People who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #110 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteJust because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator. Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress. No, my previous statement had no reliance on faith. If you think it does, then you clearly don't understand the definition of faith (which is further apparent in the rest of your post).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #111 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteJust because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator. Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress. No, my previous statement had no reliance on faith. If you think it does, then you clearly don't understand the definition of faith (which is further apparent in the rest of your post). Does progress require faith?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 June 1, 2008 QuoteDoes progress require faith? No.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #113 June 1, 2008 Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Fear. What if you're wrong?-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #114 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteDoes progress require faith? No. I disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #115 June 1, 2008 QuoteI disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance? I think you misunderstand the scientific method. Faith is not a requirement.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #116 June 1, 2008 QuotePeople who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? I just had an extremely caring conversation with a Muslim yesterday in which he shared what he knew and I shared what I knew. For the most part, we believe the same things about who/what God is. If two people are comfortable in their faith, even if there are attempts at apparent "conversion", the conversations go very smoothly, because both of us are learning to be examples of our faith, not competitors. I believe in order to learn tolerance with anothers' religion, the culture must be understood, but more importantly, you must be secure in what you believe. What I have noticed is that many feel "trapped" in some ways when they see holes in thier own faith, it is not what is told to them, but what is revealed through their own mind. For example, the Koran does call for Jihad against ALL pagans...those who are not in the brotherhood of islam; but modern Muslims dont believe that it is right to go around killing other people for nothing. They cant believe in the divintiy of Jesus (for the most part) because #1 its already prophesied, #2 they dont understand the Son of God/Spirit of God, #3 It is written in the Koran to not become freinds or to even listen to "pagans" (which means the ear for wisdom is muffled). Moderate Muslims are also beginning to realize that the leadership and clerical side of thier religion is as faulty as anyone, they are seeing the hypocracy themselves. Genuine Christians see the same things with Fundamentalist Preachers, who have too little Jesus coming out of their mouth and too much politics; who gladly spend money given to God on themselves; who do not confess their sins from the pulpit as they are commanded to do in truth...thats what submitting yourself to ones conscience is all about, but following Jesus requires humility and humbleness and these qualites are evasive for all humans, even for "leaders" in the church. The point is, Religious Tolerance is about knowledge of anothers culture but of ones own faith as well, knowing your faith is knowing others' and finding what you believe is truth. If Jesus didnt tell me that God reaps where he has not sown, and gathers where he has not scattered seed, it would be hard to accept the Gospel as the truth. If God had not prophesied in Genesis that the seed of Ishmael (Islam) would be against his brothers, and would be a wild donkey of a man, it would be hard to accept. If I hadnt seen a definite connection between all the books in the bible, both historically and spiritually, it would be hard to accept, if the prophets did not speak of the coming of Jesus all throughout the entire bible, it would be hard to accept, and if Jesus hadnt been as awsome as he was/is, it would be hard to accept he is the Messiah. But, I have put the Gospel up against everything I know and learn, and everything I hear and it has rang true to the very center of my inner being for years. This, amongst other things gives me confidence in being tolerant with others in regards to their faith. At the end of the day, it is how we treat one another that shows whether or not we follow and practice what we believe. Im sorry for the long wind."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #117 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteI disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance? I think you misunderstand the scientific method. Faith is not a requirement. No worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible""We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #118 June 1, 2008 QuotePeople who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Let me clarify my Long winded point into my 2 cents. Being faithful to your spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man made, the spirit is about receiving revelations of enlightening wisdom. "It first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere." James 3:7 If these things are not present within a man of God, then he is not a man of God."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #119 June 1, 2008 QuoteNo worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible" It's not a subjective discussion. Debate won't change the facts.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #120 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteNo worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible" It's not a subjective discussion. Debate won't change the facts. Im sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? The point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 June 2, 2008 QuoteIm sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? If it can be accomplished, it is not impossible, is it? QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? What?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #122 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteIm sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? If it can be accomplished, it is not impossible, is it?Quote To accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. If they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? What? I think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 June 2, 2008 QuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? Reality QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #124 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis.Quote Faith is not for doubt, but for belief. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? RealityQuote Faith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote Jesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws). Im simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #125 June 3, 2008 QuoteFaith is not for doubt, but for belief. What an arbitrary distinction you provide. One person's doubt is another person's belief. In your example, it was the person who thought something was impossible whose belief was not founded factually. QuoteFaith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I can see why, since no one claimed that except you. QuoteI am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. No, they merely have to acknowledge that it won't require violation of natural laws and figure out how to do it. That's not to say it will be easy, but it doesn't require the faith you refer to. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote QuoteJesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? And, due to lack of historical evidence to support such claims of Jesus' existence and feats, it must be taken on faith. QuoteIm simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first. You're doing a poor job of showing me. I don't buy your claim. Perhaps you're trying to convince yourself?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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maadmax 0 #103 June 1, 2008 Absolutely, there is still more for physicists to understand. That does not mean that there is any likelihood of finding evidence of a supernatural creator. You're creating a false dichotomy, much like the one creationists created (no pun intended) with their false evolution/ID dichotomy. If evolution were to be absolutely disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that ID is suddenly a scientifically valid explanation. The same concept applies to cosmology. Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator.*** If my concerns centered only around the origins of the universe then yes you would be correct. But as it is, I have experienced a supernatural Wisdom from a supernatural source. My mind and emotions were trapped in the typical worldly rat race leading to a self-destructive nowhere. By the Grace of God my thoughts and priorities were profoundly redirected to a higher perspective, setting me free in the process. After experiencing this spiritual rejuvenation, connecting the dots that this same God is also responsible for the universe is a no brainer. _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #104 June 1, 2008 Quote Absolutely, there is still more for physicists to understand. That does not mean that there is any likelihood of finding evidence of a supernatural creator. You're creating a false dichotomy, much like the one creationists created (no pun intended) with their false evolution/ID dichotomy. If evolution were to be absolutely disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that ID is suddenly a scientifically valid explanation. The same concept applies to cosmology. Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator.*** If my concerns centered only around the origins of the universe then yes you would be correct. But as it is, I have experienced a supernatural Wisdom from a supernatural source. My mind and emotions were trapped in the typical worldly rat race leading to a self-destructive nowhere. By the Grace of God my thoughts and priorities were profoundly redirected to a higher perspective, setting me free in the process. After experiencing this spiritual rejuvenation, connecting the dots that this same God is also responsible for the universe is a no brainer. And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #105 June 1, 2008 Point being? "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God", "Our righteousness are as filthy rags" We need help in being restored to our rightful place in the universe. There is no higher honor than unimpeded communion with God. ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #106 June 1, 2008 And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. What do you think Isaac Newton would have said if someone in his time suggested the standard model of particle physics? Would he have immediately rejected it saying Why, that can't be true, there is just no evidence to support it. The acquisition of evidence is not an exclusive property, limited only to the scientific method. The healing, restorative power of God that fills the soul/mind of the believer, is evidence enough for anyone who has experienced it. ____________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #107 June 1, 2008 Quote And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. If ever there is any credible evidence of a supernatural creator, I'll revisit the issue. However, thus far there is none, zero, nada, zip.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #108 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuote And my point stands. We are not talking about anything remotely the same. You can believe in a supernatural being if you want to. For me, personally, I don't, since there is no credible evidence to support the existence of such a being.*** How can you seriously keep using that excuse/explanation for rejecting the presence of God. Surely, along with your obvious education you must have a slight inkling of the vast amount of evidence we have yet to collect. If ever there is any credible evidence of a supernatural creator, I'll revisit the issue. However, thus far there is none, zero, nada, zip. "Just because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator." Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #109 June 1, 2008 People who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #110 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteJust because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator. Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress. No, my previous statement had no reliance on faith. If you think it does, then you clearly don't understand the definition of faith (which is further apparent in the rest of your post).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #111 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteJust because cosmologists don't know with any certainty about critical points in the universe's past or future does not imply evidence for a supernatural creator. Your operating in faith here, which is progressing without evidence while at the same time saying you need evidence to have faith. As you gain evidence, your faith increases becoming more and more sure. This is no different than those who have faith in Gods love. God doesnt show us himself so that we can have faith, because it is faith that holds the power in the heart of Heaven. Without faith that you will find the answer you seek in cosmology, you wouldnt progress. No, my previous statement had no reliance on faith. If you think it does, then you clearly don't understand the definition of faith (which is further apparent in the rest of your post). Does progress require faith?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #112 June 1, 2008 QuoteDoes progress require faith? No.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #113 June 1, 2008 Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Fear. What if you're wrong?-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #114 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteDoes progress require faith? No. I disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #115 June 1, 2008 QuoteI disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance? I think you misunderstand the scientific method. Faith is not a requirement.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #116 June 1, 2008 QuotePeople who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? I just had an extremely caring conversation with a Muslim yesterday in which he shared what he knew and I shared what I knew. For the most part, we believe the same things about who/what God is. If two people are comfortable in their faith, even if there are attempts at apparent "conversion", the conversations go very smoothly, because both of us are learning to be examples of our faith, not competitors. I believe in order to learn tolerance with anothers' religion, the culture must be understood, but more importantly, you must be secure in what you believe. What I have noticed is that many feel "trapped" in some ways when they see holes in thier own faith, it is not what is told to them, but what is revealed through their own mind. For example, the Koran does call for Jihad against ALL pagans...those who are not in the brotherhood of islam; but modern Muslims dont believe that it is right to go around killing other people for nothing. They cant believe in the divintiy of Jesus (for the most part) because #1 its already prophesied, #2 they dont understand the Son of God/Spirit of God, #3 It is written in the Koran to not become freinds or to even listen to "pagans" (which means the ear for wisdom is muffled). Moderate Muslims are also beginning to realize that the leadership and clerical side of thier religion is as faulty as anyone, they are seeing the hypocracy themselves. Genuine Christians see the same things with Fundamentalist Preachers, who have too little Jesus coming out of their mouth and too much politics; who gladly spend money given to God on themselves; who do not confess their sins from the pulpit as they are commanded to do in truth...thats what submitting yourself to ones conscience is all about, but following Jesus requires humility and humbleness and these qualites are evasive for all humans, even for "leaders" in the church. The point is, Religious Tolerance is about knowledge of anothers culture but of ones own faith as well, knowing your faith is knowing others' and finding what you believe is truth. If Jesus didnt tell me that God reaps where he has not sown, and gathers where he has not scattered seed, it would be hard to accept the Gospel as the truth. If God had not prophesied in Genesis that the seed of Ishmael (Islam) would be against his brothers, and would be a wild donkey of a man, it would be hard to accept. If I hadnt seen a definite connection between all the books in the bible, both historically and spiritually, it would be hard to accept, if the prophets did not speak of the coming of Jesus all throughout the entire bible, it would be hard to accept, and if Jesus hadnt been as awsome as he was/is, it would be hard to accept he is the Messiah. But, I have put the Gospel up against everything I know and learn, and everything I hear and it has rang true to the very center of my inner being for years. This, amongst other things gives me confidence in being tolerant with others in regards to their faith. At the end of the day, it is how we treat one another that shows whether or not we follow and practice what we believe. Im sorry for the long wind."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #117 June 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteI disagree and I am curious as to how you came to that conclusion so rapidly. Many "marvles" have been done in this world under the premise of one idea...it was thought impossible at the time. Maybe, your definition of faith could use a little more tolerance? I think you misunderstand the scientific method. Faith is not a requirement. No worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible""We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #118 June 1, 2008 QuotePeople who are seriously believing in religions think it is the best idea in the world. Why don't religions respect the beliefs of other religions and the practice of other religions? Most of the Christian countries allow other religions to practice freely. So why don't the Islamic countries or Israel do the same thing? Why aren't religions tolerant of each other? Let me clarify my Long winded point into my 2 cents. Being faithful to your spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man made, the spirit is about receiving revelations of enlightening wisdom. "It first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere." James 3:7 If these things are not present within a man of God, then he is not a man of God."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #119 June 1, 2008 QuoteNo worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible" It's not a subjective discussion. Debate won't change the facts.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #120 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteNo worries, we just disagree. Edited to add: I believe faith is a requirement to accomplish the "impossible" It's not a subjective discussion. Debate won't change the facts. Im sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? The point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #121 June 2, 2008 QuoteIm sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? If it can be accomplished, it is not impossible, is it? QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? What?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #122 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteIm sorry I cant seem to let this go, but how is it factual to say that to accomplish the impossible, faith is not required? If it can be accomplished, it is not impossible, is it?Quote To accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. If they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? What? I think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 June 2, 2008 QuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? Reality QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #124 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis.Quote Faith is not for doubt, but for belief. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? RealityQuote Faith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote Jesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws). Im simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #125 June 3, 2008 QuoteFaith is not for doubt, but for belief. What an arbitrary distinction you provide. One person's doubt is another person's belief. In your example, it was the person who thought something was impossible whose belief was not founded factually. QuoteFaith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I can see why, since no one claimed that except you. QuoteI am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. No, they merely have to acknowledge that it won't require violation of natural laws and figure out how to do it. That's not to say it will be easy, but it doesn't require the faith you refer to. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote QuoteJesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? And, due to lack of historical evidence to support such claims of Jesus' existence and feats, it must be taken on faith. QuoteIm simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first. You're doing a poor job of showing me. I don't buy your claim. Perhaps you're trying to convince yourself?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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jcd11235 0 #123 June 2, 2008 QuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? Reality QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #124 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo accomplish the "impossible" (that which was considered impossible by everyone else but those who thought it was possible) It is the ones who thought "it" was possible who were acting in faith. It appears that the ones who claimed it was impossible were the ones who made their claim on faith, or, more accurately, made their claim based on incorrect conclusions drawn from data analysis.Quote Faith is not for doubt, but for belief. QuoteIf they were not acting in faith, then what were they acting in? RealityQuote Faith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote Jesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? QuoteI think thats pretty self explanatory. Sometimes it is only an idea that one begins with, belief in that idea is what inspires progression or at least perseverance. I think you are confusing faith in a supernatural being, for which there is no evidence, and the belief that something never before accomplished can be accomplished because there is no reason that it can't (i.e. it doesn't require violation of any natural laws). Im simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #125 June 3, 2008 QuoteFaith is not for doubt, but for belief. What an arbitrary distinction you provide. One person's doubt is another person's belief. In your example, it was the person who thought something was impossible whose belief was not founded factually. QuoteFaith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I can see why, since no one claimed that except you. QuoteI am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. No, they merely have to acknowledge that it won't require violation of natural laws and figure out how to do it. That's not to say it will be easy, but it doesn't require the faith you refer to. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote QuoteJesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? And, due to lack of historical evidence to support such claims of Jesus' existence and feats, it must be taken on faith. QuoteIm simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first. You're doing a poor job of showing me. I don't buy your claim. Perhaps you're trying to convince yourself?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jcd11235 0 #125 June 3, 2008 QuoteFaith is not for doubt, but for belief. What an arbitrary distinction you provide. One person's doubt is another person's belief. In your example, it was the person who thought something was impossible whose belief was not founded factually. QuoteFaith operates in reality, of course im not disputing that. I can see why, since no one claimed that except you. QuoteI am saying that if someone attempts the inconcieved "impossible" (whether it is possible or not) it takes a certain amount of belief. No, they merely have to acknowledge that it won't require violation of natural laws and figure out how to do it. That's not to say it will be easy, but it doesn't require the faith you refer to. QuoteThe point is to say that evidence is not always required to make something possible, or to believe in something. Isnt that true? It is true to the extent that it is just as probable that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Supreme Being as it is probable that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Quote QuoteJesus had witnesses who recorded and testified in the gravest of circumstances, giving their lives through their conviction. If blood is not enough for one to listen to a witness (it is good enough in our courts), then how about time, money, and energy? Everything these disciples did was given to glorify Jesus as the savior and as the messiah. The message of that same Gospel is very much still alive, and through all its scrutiny and skeptisism over 2000+ yrs, people are still testifying to the truth in its power. I testify to something I know will bring me persucution at times because I believe Jesus is the truth, is there anyone who testifies to the power of the flying spaghetti monster against persecution because they believe he is the truth? And, due to lack of historical evidence to support such claims of Jesus' existence and feats, it must be taken on faith. QuoteIm simply showing you that faith and belief are in the same flow of the imagination, and that both can be manifested into reality. Spiritually, faith found in Jesus produces good fruit and an indescribable joy, while wordly, belief in an idea produces progress and perseverance into something once thought "impossible". Sometimes "evidence" is not found without the idea (or spiritually, without faith) first. You're doing a poor job of showing me. I don't buy your claim. Perhaps you're trying to convince yourself?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
