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QuoteSPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs
Its much deeper than that. Understanding why we are here isnt the pursuit of my spiritual path, its getting the most out of life that is. I also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite.
I read his words a little differently: that free thinkers may not find their need(s) for spirituality satisified through organized, dogmatic, traditional religious institutions and structures.Quote
I had to re-read this, and I agree with you. Spirituality is much deeper than mans definition of it, just as God is much deeper than mans definition. Now if your saying that spirituality can be found without God, then I disagree."We didn't start the fire"
QuoteWhen a man recognizes and truly understands that the search was never for the things in this world, but for things that are not seen, the mind is free and open to search in places it wasnt looking before...freer than it ever had been before. That is why I said what I said.
And most adults can use their ability to reason and find those things. Many realize that those things are unrelated to invisible spirits and mythological creatures.
QuoteMany people do not believe this, therefore, it will sound absolutely ridiculous, thats fine, but it is hardly worth calling it lacking of free thought or some desperate attempt at hope. It is about finding real truth.
I personally find it ridiculous because it establishes linkage between those things and a spirit.
You can live a good and moral life without worrying about the opinion of Santa Claus or the adult religious flavor of that.
Many people desire belief because it is a desperate attempt. They can't cope without an emotional crutch.
mnealtx 0
QuoteMany people desire belief because it is a desperate attempt. They can't cope without an emotional crutch.
It's interesting that you say that - how many of those that term themselves as atheists speak of "karma"? Would that not be a belief in some sort of higher power, as well?
Mike
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QuoteQuoteWhen a man recognizes and truly understands that the search was never for the things in this world, but for things that are not seen, the mind is free and open to search in places it wasnt looking before...freer than it ever had been before. That is why I said what I said.
And most adults can use their ability to reason and find those things. Many realize that those things are unrelated to invisible spirits and mythological creatures.QuoteMany people do not believe this, therefore, it will sound absolutely ridiculous, thats fine, but it is hardly worth calling it lacking of free thought or some desperate attempt at hope. It is about finding real truth.
I personally find it ridiculous because it establishes linkage between those things and a spirit.
You can live a good and moral life without worrying about the opinion of Santa Claus or the adult religious flavor of that.
Many people desire belief because it is a desperate attempt. They can't cope without an emotional crutch.
And now we are at the threshold of a non beliver and a believer. I believe that "those things" are founded in love and goodness. God dying for me is an endless ocean of beauty, and connects me to the earth and life in ways that living without God could never do.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteMany people desire belief because it is a desperate attempt. They can't cope without an emotional crutch.
It's interesting that you say that - how many of those that term themselves as atheists speak of "karma"? Would that not be a belief in some sort of higher power, as well?
Yep. Karma is quoted as a balance or equalizer, based on the moral value of your actions. Of course, that means there is a figure to judge the actions and enforce the consequence of the actions.
Horoscopes, luck (good or bad), Weegee boards (spelling?), lucky charms/acts. All require a mystical force that the person manipulates. The Omnipotent Servant.
The amazing part is that people become so serious about it that they make huge personal/national decisions based on it.
QuoteQuoteHave you even read the Gospel before?
Yes. I have. It's full of bigotry, misogyny, genocide and immoral behavior. It/they are the source of the beginning of my atheism.
Wow. It is amazing to me that you got that from Jesus.
yeah, where is that stuff in the Gospels?
Speed Racer
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QuoteGod dying for me is an endless ocean of beauty, and connects me to the earth and life in ways that living without God could never do.
Ok. That is your belief.
To me, that really sounds crazy. I mean really.
I don't see how a rational discussion works from here.
So, we're done.
jcd11235 0
QuoteNow if your saying that spirituality can be found without God, then I disagree.
Are you claiming that Taoists, Buddhists, and Confucianists lack spirituality? The Tao is not a god. The Buddha was not a god, nor did he worship one. Confucius was not a god, nor is Confucianism based on worshiping a god.
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QuoteQuoteNow if your saying that spirituality can be found without God, then I disagree.
Are you claiming that Taoists, Buddhists, and Confucianists lack spirituality? The Tao is not a god. The Buddha was not a god, nor did he worship one. Confucius was not a god, nor is Confucianism based on worshiping a god.
God is spirit. The creator of even you...he is life...and he is invisible. What makes a man spiritual is that he finds power in what is invisible...oneness, whatever you want to call it. Not admitting that it is God, means that you submit that there is something greater than yourself, but you dont admit it. People want to be spiritual, but do not want to call thier "higher being", or "balancer", God, even though, they gladly call him the "higher being" or "balancer". What do you think makes a man spiritual?
"We didn't start the fire"
jakee 1,595
Quotehow many of those that term themselves as atheists speak of "karma"?
As an actual thing that happens? Not many. Not many at all would be my guess.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
JackC 0
QuoteGod is spirit. The creator of even you...he is life...and he is invisible. What makes a man spiritual is that he finds power in what is invisible...oneness, whatever you want to call it. Not admitting that it is God, means that you submit that there is something greater than yourself, but you dont admit it. People want to be spiritual, but do not want to call thier "higher being", or "balancer", God, even though, they gladly call him the "higher being" or "balancer". What do you think makes a man spiritual?
How can a post contain as many words as this and yet remain completely devoid of all meaning? Seriously, this is a fantastic demonstration of why I'm an atheist. Anything that motivates people write stuff as incomprehensible as this and yet still maintain the belief that they're talking sense, really cannot be a good thing.
Royd 0
I thought it was oil.Quotereligion is how the wars are sold to the people who have to fight them.
There is a pantheon of Greek gods, Roman gods, and Druid gods. I suspect that you do not believe in them also. Primitive people trying to make sense out of their world.
During the 60s, the Hmong people believed in the spiritual aspect of rocks and trees. Animism.
It was the same religious understanding that the Druids had. Eventually, Europeans quit believing that rocks and streams had spirits.
In the 60s, most other people rejected the mythology of the Hmong beliefs as primitive and ignorant.
I put all mythologies into that category. All mystic deities are just myths, yours included.
I find it amazing that anyone still refers to their own invisible being as the true god, but other religions are myths, and cannot see the parallels.
During the 60s, the Hmong people believed in the spiritual aspect of rocks and trees. Animism.
It was the same religious understanding that the Druids had. Eventually, Europeans quit believing that rocks and streams had spirits.
In the 60s, most other people rejected the mythology of the Hmong beliefs as primitive and ignorant.
I put all mythologies into that category. All mystic deities are just myths, yours included.
I find it amazing that anyone still refers to their own invisible being as the true god, but other religions are myths, and cannot see the parallels.
Royd 0
Sounds like much of the same stuff the New Age "Spiritual" movement spouts. They are spiritual, just not religious, so this makes them a little smarter. They don't buy into all of that religious crap. They are one with the Earth, blah, blah, blah.QuoteDuring the 60s, the Hmong people believed in the spiritual aspect of rocks and trees. Animism.
It was the same religious understanding that the Druids had. Eventually, Europeans quit believing that rocks and streams had spirits.
In the 60s, most other people rejected the mythology of the Hmong beliefs as primitive and ignorant.
I put all mythologies into that category. All mystic deities are just myths, yours included.
I find it amazing that anyone still refers to their own invisible being as the true god, but other religions are myths, and cannot see the parallels.
jcd11235 0
QuoteNot admitting that it is God, means that you submit that there is something greater than yourself, but you dont admit it.
Of course I admit there is something greater than myself, the self-aware universe. (Actually, more than just the universe is greater than me, but I'll stick with the greatest.)
QuotePeople want to be spiritual, but do not want to call thier "higher being", or "balancer", God, even though, they gladly call him the "higher being" or "balancer".
You clearly no little to nothing about any of the three religions I mentioned (as well as other religions that don't require a supernatural being). In other words, you're talking out of your ass.
QuoteWhat do you think makes a man spiritual?
I don't know that there is a single defining characteristic. There is certainly no need to believe in a god.
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You clearly no little to nothing about any of the three religions I mentioned (as well as other religions that don't require a supernatural being). In other words, you're talking out of your ass.
Your right, the earth is only perfectly self sustaining in so many ways, there is no way that wisdom could be responsible for that, and there is certainly no way that wisdom is love and care nor could it be a provider of the deepest needs and wants of that which it creates
Quote
One thing that you and I know is certain. You do not know anything about the Gospel and I dont know anything about what you are professing as spiritual...what exactly are calling spiritual?QuoteWhat do you think makes a man spiritual?
I don't know that there is a single defining characteristic. There is certainly no need to believe in a god.
Your right, the earth is only perfectly self sustaining in so many ways, there is no way that wisdom could be responsible for that, and there is certainly no way that wisdom is love and care nor could it be a provider of the deepest needs and wants of that which it creates
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteGod is spirit. The creator of even you...he is life...and he is invisible. What makes a man spiritual is that he finds power in what is invisible...oneness, whatever you want to call it. Not admitting that it is God, means that you submit that there is something greater than yourself, but you dont admit it. People want to be spiritual, but do not want to call thier "higher being", or "balancer", God, even though, they gladly call him the "higher being" or "balancer". What do you think makes a man spiritual?
How can a post contain as many words as this and yet remain completely devoid of all meaning? Seriously, this is a fantastic demonstration of why I'm an atheist. Anything that motivates people write stuff as incomprehensible as this and yet still maintain the belief that they're talking sense, really cannot be a good thing.
Okay, I got it, your an atheist, the giver of your own life and creater of your own destiny...I got it. But how is it again that you can completely deny Gods existance?
"We didn't start the fire"
maadmax 0
Of course I admit there is something greater than myself, the self-aware universe. (Actually, more than just the universe is greater than me, but I'll stick with the greatest.)***
Interesting. Since this is one of God's attributes, it appears that you are simply exchanging personal viewpoints of what God is or isn't.
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Interesting. Since this is one of God's attributes, it appears that you are simply exchanging personal viewpoints of what God is or isn't.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteYou do not know anything about the Gospel …
You'd be surprised.
Quote… and I dont know anything about what you are professing as spiritual...what exactly are calling spiritual?
The three examples I gave were Buddhism, Taoism, and (to a lesser extent than the other two) Confucianism.
QuoteYour right, the earth is only perfectly self sustaining in so many ways, there is no way that wisdom could be responsible for that …
What planet did you say you were living on? The planet I'm on, called Earth, is not self sustaining. It requires a massive amount of energy from an external source. Fortunately, there is a star nearby that provides that energy, in the form of electromagnetic radiation, at a suitable rate.
Quote… and there is certainly no way that wisdom is love and care nor could it be a provider of the deepest needs and wants of that which it creates
That's probably the most reasonable thing you've said lately.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteInteresting. Since this is one of God's attributes, it appears that you are simply exchanging personal viewpoints of what God is or isn't.
Are you defining God as the universe (i.e. God = universe = God)? A self aware universe is a scientifically observable phenomenon. Defining God as that universe is certainly not unheard of. However, by that definition, God's laws are the laws of physics, etc., immutable natural laws, impossible to violate. Such a God would have no capacity to meddle with the affairs of man, except by those natural laws.
I would not argue against such a definition of God. But I would point out that such a god would not be supernatural or have supernatural power. Nor could any person be any more the "son of god" than any other person.
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JackC 0
QuoteOkay, I got it, your an atheist, the giver of your own life and creater of your own destiny...I got it.
My point is not that I'm an atheist, but that you make no sense.
QuoteBut how is it again that you can completely deny Gods existance?
Gods plural? There are literally thousands of them and they are all indistinguishable from their own non-existance. So why wouldn't I dismiss them? If you're talking about the omnimax Abrahamic God in particular then I dismiss that for the same reasons I dismiss square circles; the concept is nonsensical.
jakee 1,595
QuoteYour right, the earth is only perfectly self sustaining in so many ways, there is no way that wisdom could be responsible for that, and there is certainly no way that wisdom is love and care nor could it be a provider of the deepest needs and wants of that which it creates
What does that even mean? Seriously - what concept is it you are trying to convey here? In every post you make it seems like you take so much trouble to compose everything in lovely flowery language that you completely forget to check whether it is at all comprehensible or logical.
Look up "Sophistry" in the dictionary, then take a look in the mirror.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
I read his post several times before I wrote the reply. To me it sounded as if he belives people just make up spirituality so that they can be comfortable in the lack of true knowledge that comes through "free thought" (as it is defined by man). The problem with this (if this is his point) is that it is "understood" that those who find truth in the spirit have not searched "as hard" as those who continue to look for it outside of the spirit.
For example: Say you just ordered your first rig. You are so excited. Your rig comes and you are elated for awhile, but somehow the satisfaction in that begins to dull eventually. Until years later, the rig you were so happy over is desperately trying to get sold. The worldly man says, no worries, Ill just buy another rig with the money I get and that satisfaction will come back. The spiritual man recognizes that what he really enjoyed wasnt necessarily the rig, but the excitement and happiness it brought...so...he says how do I keep that excitement and happiness without relying on things in this world? (and the spiritual path begins), its not about creating, but finding.
When a man recognizes and truly understands that the search was never for the things in this world, but for things that are not seen, the mind is free and open to search in places it wasnt looking before...freer than it ever had been before. That is why I said what I said. Many people do not believe this, therefore, it will sound absolutely ridiculous, thats fine, but it is hardly worth calling it lacking of free thought or some desperate attempt at hope. It is about finding real truth.
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