happythoughts 0 #1 May 24, 2008 MSN Quoteupdated 10:31 a.m. ET, Tues., May. 20, 2008 Remember when the shooting of the Quran hit the press. This, not as much. Kind of difficult to find. It is not anywhere on CNN. I was waiting for the Christian outrage and the apology. QuoteJERUSALEM - Orthodox Jews set fire to hundreds of copies of the New Testament in the latest act of violence against Christian missionaries in the Holy Land. Or Yehuda Deputy Mayor Uzi Aharon said missionaries recently entered a neighborhood in the predominantly religious town of 34,000 in central Israel, distributing hundreds of New Testaments and missionary material. After receiving complaints, Aharon said, he got into a loudspeaker car last Thursday and drove through the neighborhood, urging people to turn over the material to Jewish religious students who went door to door to collect it. So, they went door to door and collected them, then burned them. Quote"I certainly don't denounce the burning of the booklets," he said. "I denounce those who distributed the booklets." So... that sounds like no apology coming up. In fact, it sounded closer to a threat. Other news reports mentioned that promoting literature for other religions is frowned upon. In most cases, it is not illegal. I remember reading that line and thinking, "In most cases, it is not illegal". Hmmm... most cases? illegal? So, there wasn't any due process of law because it isn't illegal. But still, they just collected personal property. Religion, illegal? Book burnings? What could be next? Putting people of other religions into camps? On a tolerance scale, we'll just call this a zero. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #2 May 24, 2008 Were the New Testaments collected, or seized ? It is an important distinction, though many "voluntary" surrenders of the literature may be due to the social pressure of being "asked" so directly, as in worrying about the consequences of not surrendering something the religious authorities thought you had in your possession. The anniversary of the great Nazi book burning was only a week or two ago. I used to think the book burnings were sort of a regular Saturday night kind of thing in Nazi Germany, but apparently most of it was done in one big night, all across the country. It wouldn't do the people of this Israeli town a bit of harm to watch some documentary films on the Nazi book burning, though I'm sure they'd be offended to the core at being compared in any way with the Nazis. But the thing to remember about the Nazis is that they weren't born that way. They were by and large good, hardworking, honest people with families, who allowed themselves, one step at a time to be seduced into committing monstrous crimes. We all have a dark side and the only difference with the Nazis is that their social order not only permitted, but encouraged the development of their dark side. And it can happen to anyone else; to Cambodians, to Hutus, even to us. A lot of you are too young to remember, but in 1966 there were large scale public burnings of Beatle records after John Lennon flippantly said the Beatles were "more popular than Jesus". The Ku Klux Klan picketed Beatle concerts in full hooded regalia and portrayed themselves as defenders of Christian values - at a time when they were also bombing little girls in Sunday schools and shooting people dead in front of their homes. So, it can happen anywhere, even here and even in Israel. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #3 May 26, 2008 Nothing, ABSOLUTLEY nothing induces intolerence, hate and vicious behaviour in people better than religion. The sooner we are all rid of this anchient pestulence, the better.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 May 26, 2008 QuoteNothing, ABSOLUTLEY nothing induces intolerence, hate and vicious behaviour in people better than religion. The sooner we are all rid of this anchient pestulence, the better. As shown by the peace and love in YOUR post, obviously.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #5 May 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteNothing, ABSOLUTLEY nothing induces intolerence, hate and vicious behaviour in people better than religion. The sooner we are all rid of this anchient pestulence, the better. As shown by the peace and love in YOUR post, obviously. Do you disagree with his point? If so, would you care to provide some counterexamples?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 May 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteNothing, ABSOLUTLEY nothing induces intolerence, hate and vicious behaviour in people better than religion. The sooner we are all rid of this anchient pestulence, the better. As shown by the peace and love in YOUR post, obviously. Do you disagree with his point? If so, would you care to provide some counterexamples? Counterexample: People who try to stamp out religion. Soviet Union, China, etc. etc. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #7 May 26, 2008 QuoteCounterexample: People who try to stamp out religion. Soviet Union, China, etc. etc. Soviet Union? The government was officially atheist, but I'm not aware of anti-religious violence approaching the scales history has shown religion to be responsible for. China? Nope. Think Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #8 May 26, 2008 most wars were not started for religious reasons. Sometimes the leaders would occasionally wave the religion flag, but really, the motives for the wars were about grabbing land, loot, and power. You could remove the religion flag, but the same bullshit would continue. You need to look behind the facade. I've just been reading this book about the 14th century & the Hundred Years War. Religion was occasionally involved, but it is clear that it was not the motivating factor for starting or perpetuating the war. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #9 May 26, 2008 Quotemost wars were not started for religious reasons. Sometimes the leaders would occasionally wave the religion flag, but really, the motives for the wars were about grabbing land, loot, and power. You could remove the religion flag, but the same bullshit would continue. You need to look behind the facade. I've just been reading this book about the 14th century & the Hundred Years War. Religion was occasionally involved, but it is clear that it was not the motivating factor for starting or perpetuating the war. Agreed, but religion is how the wars are sold to the people who have to fight them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 May 26, 2008 Even that isn't usually the case, though. I'm thinking of most of the major wars: they usually don't even pretend it's about religion. Also things like the persecution of the jews was usually not about their religion specifically. the Nazis were concerned with the Jews as a race, not the religion. And during the bubonic plague, some people tried to blame the plague on Jews poisoning the wells. It was the Church that told them to stop picking on the Jews, and that blaming them for the plague was BS. it seems to me that people trying to blame religion for everything bad are not looking very closely at history. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #11 May 26, 2008 What, pray tell, is bigoted about throwing the bullshit flag on a scourge of humanity? This, the thing that brought us untold thousands or wars, pogroms, inquisitions, the holocaust, misogyny, homophobia, racism and opposes, at every turn, moral, social and scientific progress. This, the thing that glorifies a horrific execution and practices all manner of degradative discrimination. This, the thing that promises rewards for unquestioning obedience. This, the thing that preys on the weak and defenseless. This, the thing that claims to have power from above yet lists after wealth and earthly power, not for the purpose of being benevolent, but for the purpose of self sustenance. This, the thing that lies at every turn while claiming truth. Yes, this is a horrible and shameful thing and it must be done away with, as soon as possible.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #12 May 26, 2008 QuoteNothing, ABSOLUTLEY nothing induces intolerence, hate and vicious behaviour in people better than religion. The sooner we are all rid of this anchient pestulence, the better. Mao Zedong once said "religion is a cancer" and he tried really hard to stamp it out in China. To this day, Christians, Buddhists, and Falon Gong all have their problems and persecutions with the Chinese govt. The govt for its part has admitted they cannot stamp out religion, so instead they try to regulate it through state approved churches and state appointed bishops, lamas, etc. But in the process, the state also created, and later abandoned, it's own religion of Maoism, with their damned little red book. The guy's most massive fuckups were enshrined in nothing less than another religion. Forget trying to abolish religion, it can't be done. SPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs. And NOTHING makes people dig in their heels deeper than trying to take away their deepest held beliefs, especially if those beliefs give them their only hope in an otherwise fucked up life or social system. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 May 26, 2008 QuoteWhat, pray tell, is bigoted about throwing the bullshit flag on a scourge of humanity? This, the thing that brought us untold thousands or wars, pogroms, inquisitions, the holocaust, misogyny, homophobia, racism and opposes, at every turn, moral, social and scientific progress. This, the thing that glorifies a horrific execution and practices all manner of degradative discrimination. This, the thing that promises rewards for unquestioning obedience. This, the thing that preys on the weak and defenseless. This, the thing that claims to have power from above yet lists after wealth and earthly power, not for the purpose of being benevolent, but for the purpose of self sustenance. This, the thing that lies at every turn while claiming truth. Yes, this is a horrible and shameful thing and it must be done away with, as soon as possible. Yup, I'd say that looks like a fair bit of "intolerance, hate, and vicious behavior" on your part.... Well, so much for the 'freedom of religion' and 'freedon of speech' bits that the country was FOUNDED on... what part of the constitution do you advocate getting rid of next, pray tell?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #14 May 26, 2008 QuoteWhat, pray tell, is bigoted about throwing the bullshit flag on a scourge of humanity? This, the thing that brought us untold thousands or wars, pogroms, inquisitions, the holocaust, misogyny, homophobia, racism and opposes, at every turn, moral, social and scientific progress. This, the thing that glorifies a horrific execution and practices all manner of degradative discrimination. This, the thing that promises rewards for unquestioning obedience. This, the thing that preys on the weak and defenseless. This, the thing that claims to have power from above yet lists after wealth and earthly power, not for the purpose of being benevolent, but for the purpose of self sustenance. This, the thing that lies at every turn while claiming truth. Yes, this is a horrible and shameful thing and it must be done away with, as soon as possible. You sound like Jesus speaking to the hypocrites, of course with a few minor differences. I hope you are aware that your frustration can build into anger and even rage, and you can become the very people you are speaking against. I dont understand why it is so hard for people to believe in evil...of course they say it is just an "abstract" concept, but it is a powerful one wouldnt you say? Look at the deception. Here, you sincerely believe you are right and good, but your righteousness is calling for the termination of God. Which by the is exactly what the anti christ is going to do. That passion you carry just needs a strong leader to ignite it, I would just be aware of it. Have you even read the Gospel before?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #15 May 26, 2008 SPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefsQuote Its much deeper than that. Understanding why we are here isnt the pursuit of my spiritual path, its getting the most out of life that is. I also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #16 May 27, 2008 I going to have to disagree about the Holocaust. Let's also not forget the Crusades, modern jihadist movements, Sunni/Shia conflicts, Israel related violence, etc. Religion isn't the only cause of political/ideological violence, but it does appear to be the single biggest cause.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #17 May 27, 2008 Quote one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. Once again, you're incorrect. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #18 May 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteSPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs Its much deeper than that. Understanding why we are here isnt the pursuit of my spiritual path, its getting the most out of life that is. I also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. I read his words a little differently: that free thinkers may not find their need(s) for spirituality satisified through organized, dogmatic, traditional religious institutions and structures. I would pose a few counter-examples to [tbrown]'s generalization, although they may be exceptions rather than the rule: Dorothy Day -- one of her most famous quotes I suspect you may like: "The greatest challenge of the day is: how to bring about a revolution of the heart, a revolution which has to start with each one of us?" -- & Peter Maurin (founders of Catholic Worker Movement) and Archbishop Oscar Romero. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #19 May 27, 2008 QuoteI also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. I understand that lightning is not caused by Thors hammer striking the anvil. All my questions are answered now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #20 May 27, 2008 QuoteI going to have to disagree about the Holocaust. Let's also not forget the Crusades, modern jihadist movements, Sunni/Shia conflicts, Israel related violence, etc. Religion isn't the only cause of political/ideological violence, but it does appear to be the single biggest cause. Indeed. Religion might not be the only reason why Catholics and Protestants are slotting each other in Northern Ireland, but it sure does put an easy identifier on the "enemy". Religion isn't the real reason though, stupidity is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #21 May 27, 2008 Quote. what part of the constitution do you advocate getting rid of next, pray tell? The part that says religion gets a free pass to do whatever it wants to children, old people, play politics and never pay a dime in taxes and be exempt from criminal prosecution when they shuffle known pedophiles and other perverts around to escape detection.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #22 May 27, 2008 Quote....your frustration can build into anger and even rage, and you can become the very people you are speaking against. Unlikely, at best. QuoteI dont understand why it is so hard for people to believe in evil...of course they say it is just an "abstract" concept, but it is a powerful one wouldnt you say? Look at the deception. Here, you sincerely believe you are right and good, but your righteousness is calling for the termination of God. Which by the is exactly what the anti christ is going to do. That passion you carry just needs a strong leader to ignite it, I would just be aware of it. Um, what? QuoteHave you even read the Gospel before? Yes. I have. It's full of bigotry, misogyny, genocide and immoral behavior. It/they are the source of the beginning of my atheism.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #23 May 27, 2008 QuoteMao Zedong once said "religion is a cancer" and he tried really hard to stamp it out in China. To this day, Christians, Buddhists, and Falon Gong all have their problems and persecutions with the Chinese govt. The govt for its part has admitted they cannot stamp out religion, so instead they try to regulate it through state approved churches and state appointed bishops, lamas, etc. But in the process, the state also created, and later abandoned, it's own religion of Maoism, with their damned little red book. The guy's most massive fuckups were enshrined in nothing less than another religion. Ah, yes, the old "Atheist government persecuting religion" ploy. When are you guys gonna get tired of this? QuoteForget trying to abolish religion, it can't be done. SPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs. And NOTHING makes people dig in their heels deeper than trying to take away their deepest held beliefs, especially if those beliefs give them their only hope in an otherwise fucked up life or social system. Religion should be treated with the ridicule it so richly deserves. It should never be held in high regard and should be subjected to the criticism that would be heaped upon any equally silly belief. Do you think anyone would defer to someone who thinks Thor is the creator of the universe and the source of all morality? How about Zues, Apollo, Aphrodite or Cuthulu? Would you, could you, take seriously a person who has a "personal relationship" with Poseidon? I didn't think so.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #24 May 27, 2008 Quote Ah, yes, the old "Atheist government persecuting religion" ploy. When are you guys gonna get tired of this? Most of the governments doing the persecuting are not atheists. They are pseudo-theocracies. They are enmeshed with the religious structure and intolerant of other religions. Quote How about Zues, Apollo, Aphrodite or Cuthulu? Would you, could you, take seriously a person who has a "personal relationship" with Poseidon? I didn't think so. What? The mythological stuff? Those aren't the real invisible super-friends. A myth is any religion without a good GNP and a military to colonize it. "Canaanites? Worshiping Baal? Convert from idolatry or we're just going to have to kill you. Your choice." If I was in an Islamic theocracy, I'd be sweating. The internet is here. Womens rights is here. Simple stuff like getting an education, a job, or driving a car. People are not going to see the harm in having their sister drive a car. It will seem unreasonable. Eventually, a woman will inherit a boatload of money and demand to run her own life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #25 May 27, 2008 Quote Simple stuff like getting an education, a job, or driving a car. People are not going to see the harm in having their sister drive a car. It will seem unreasonable. All of the human rights we enjoy here are only possible because we have a state that is required to be secular. The first amendment establishment clause, and the other clauses that restrict the state from practicing any and all religions, is the only reason why, for example, women can vote, choose when and if to have children, drive, work, be educated, divorce, inherit money and property and live without interference form men - just to name a few rights they now enjoy. If there was no establishment clause, those rights we now take for granted would have never existed for we would surely be under some form of theocracy. Remember the puritans? How did that work out? Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jcd11235 0 #16 May 27, 2008 I going to have to disagree about the Holocaust. Let's also not forget the Crusades, modern jihadist movements, Sunni/Shia conflicts, Israel related violence, etc. Religion isn't the only cause of political/ideological violence, but it does appear to be the single biggest cause.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #17 May 27, 2008 Quote one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. Once again, you're incorrect. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #18 May 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteSPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs Its much deeper than that. Understanding why we are here isnt the pursuit of my spiritual path, its getting the most out of life that is. I also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. I read his words a little differently: that free thinkers may not find their need(s) for spirituality satisified through organized, dogmatic, traditional religious institutions and structures. I would pose a few counter-examples to [tbrown]'s generalization, although they may be exceptions rather than the rule: Dorothy Day -- one of her most famous quotes I suspect you may like: "The greatest challenge of the day is: how to bring about a revolution of the heart, a revolution which has to start with each one of us?" -- & Peter Maurin (founders of Catholic Worker Movement) and Archbishop Oscar Romero. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 May 27, 2008 QuoteI also find it a bit funny that one is not considered a free thinker if hes found to be a spiritual man, it is actually quite the opposite. I understand that lightning is not caused by Thors hammer striking the anvil. All my questions are answered now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #20 May 27, 2008 QuoteI going to have to disagree about the Holocaust. Let's also not forget the Crusades, modern jihadist movements, Sunni/Shia conflicts, Israel related violence, etc. Religion isn't the only cause of political/ideological violence, but it does appear to be the single biggest cause. Indeed. Religion might not be the only reason why Catholics and Protestants are slotting each other in Northern Ireland, but it sure does put an easy identifier on the "enemy". Religion isn't the real reason though, stupidity is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #21 May 27, 2008 Quote. what part of the constitution do you advocate getting rid of next, pray tell? The part that says religion gets a free pass to do whatever it wants to children, old people, play politics and never pay a dime in taxes and be exempt from criminal prosecution when they shuffle known pedophiles and other perverts around to escape detection.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #22 May 27, 2008 Quote....your frustration can build into anger and even rage, and you can become the very people you are speaking against. Unlikely, at best. QuoteI dont understand why it is so hard for people to believe in evil...of course they say it is just an "abstract" concept, but it is a powerful one wouldnt you say? Look at the deception. Here, you sincerely believe you are right and good, but your righteousness is calling for the termination of God. Which by the is exactly what the anti christ is going to do. That passion you carry just needs a strong leader to ignite it, I would just be aware of it. Um, what? QuoteHave you even read the Gospel before? Yes. I have. It's full of bigotry, misogyny, genocide and immoral behavior. It/they are the source of the beginning of my atheism.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #23 May 27, 2008 QuoteMao Zedong once said "religion is a cancer" and he tried really hard to stamp it out in China. To this day, Christians, Buddhists, and Falon Gong all have their problems and persecutions with the Chinese govt. The govt for its part has admitted they cannot stamp out religion, so instead they try to regulate it through state approved churches and state appointed bishops, lamas, etc. But in the process, the state also created, and later abandoned, it's own religion of Maoism, with their damned little red book. The guy's most massive fuckups were enshrined in nothing less than another religion. Ah, yes, the old "Atheist government persecuting religion" ploy. When are you guys gonna get tired of this? QuoteForget trying to abolish religion, it can't be done. SPIRITUALITY is as deep a human need as food and reproducing. We need to try to understand WHY we are here. And since we're not all super educated free thinkers, the natural tendency is to create religious structures and beliefs. And NOTHING makes people dig in their heels deeper than trying to take away their deepest held beliefs, especially if those beliefs give them their only hope in an otherwise fucked up life or social system. Religion should be treated with the ridicule it so richly deserves. It should never be held in high regard and should be subjected to the criticism that would be heaped upon any equally silly belief. Do you think anyone would defer to someone who thinks Thor is the creator of the universe and the source of all morality? How about Zues, Apollo, Aphrodite or Cuthulu? Would you, could you, take seriously a person who has a "personal relationship" with Poseidon? I didn't think so.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #24 May 27, 2008 Quote Ah, yes, the old "Atheist government persecuting religion" ploy. When are you guys gonna get tired of this? Most of the governments doing the persecuting are not atheists. They are pseudo-theocracies. They are enmeshed with the religious structure and intolerant of other religions. Quote How about Zues, Apollo, Aphrodite or Cuthulu? Would you, could you, take seriously a person who has a "personal relationship" with Poseidon? I didn't think so. What? The mythological stuff? Those aren't the real invisible super-friends. A myth is any religion without a good GNP and a military to colonize it. "Canaanites? Worshiping Baal? Convert from idolatry or we're just going to have to kill you. Your choice." If I was in an Islamic theocracy, I'd be sweating. The internet is here. Womens rights is here. Simple stuff like getting an education, a job, or driving a car. People are not going to see the harm in having their sister drive a car. It will seem unreasonable. Eventually, a woman will inherit a boatload of money and demand to run her own life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #25 May 27, 2008 Quote Simple stuff like getting an education, a job, or driving a car. People are not going to see the harm in having their sister drive a car. It will seem unreasonable. All of the human rights we enjoy here are only possible because we have a state that is required to be secular. The first amendment establishment clause, and the other clauses that restrict the state from practicing any and all religions, is the only reason why, for example, women can vote, choose when and if to have children, drive, work, be educated, divorce, inherit money and property and live without interference form men - just to name a few rights they now enjoy. If there was no establishment clause, those rights we now take for granted would have never existed for we would surely be under some form of theocracy. Remember the puritans? How did that work out? Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
