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jakee 1,583
QuoteRational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
Bollocks. Doing something you consider to be morally wrong is not automatically irrational, and nether do rational people always need to convince themselves that the action they are taking is right before they take it.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Quote
It is not my job to judge anyone. If someone is guilty of something, then they are guilty. Our criminal justice system is far from perfect in its judgments and can be completely overrun with money, politics and the media. Is it acceptable how? Does it punish those who break its laws, yes, do I always agree with its descisons, NO. But the criminal justice system has NOTHING to do with guilt we carry in our hearts. That was the original direction of the conversation. If you want to have a thread on whether or not the criminal justice system is acceptable to believers and non believers alike, then start one, we are talking about guilt, sin, and judgment as it relates to a life in the spirit.
Right. This from the patron saint of thread hijacking.
Whatever, you don't think you're judging us non-believers by constantly preaching to us and trying to get us to believe in your point of view? Enjoy your delusion.
QuoteQuoteSin is guilt we keep in the heart …
This definition still makes zero sense.
To you yes
It implies that as long as one does not feel guilty about an action, that action was not sinful. Furthermore, if one stops feeling guilty about an action, that action ceases to be sinful.
That is exactly right. That is why Jesus exposes us all as sinners...
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'[c]Quote… it is doing something we know we shouldnt do, but we do it anyway …
Rational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
I consider myself a rational person and I have done many things I considered to be wrong. Even still, if saying that makes me irrational, then so be it, I would rather be a man of truth, than a man of rationale.
There is always some justification to make the action the correct action, whether that assessment ends up being accurate or not. I have no doubt that Hitler felt his actions were justified, just as the Pope feels his actions are justified. I'm sure Nixon felt his actions were justified, just as Ghandi felt his actions were justified. Every intentional action is correct from the perspective from which it is made.
I absolutely agree with you on this."We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuote
It is not my job to judge anyone. If someone is guilty of something, then they are guilty. Our criminal justice system is far from perfect in its judgments and can be completely overrun with money, politics and the media. Is it acceptable how? Does it punish those who break its laws, yes, do I always agree with its descisons, NO. But the criminal justice system has NOTHING to do with guilt we carry in our hearts. That was the original direction of the conversation. If you want to have a thread on whether or not the criminal justice system is acceptable to believers and non believers alike, then start one, we are talking about guilt, sin, and judgment as it relates to a life in the spirit.
Right. This from the patron saint of thread hijacking.
Your right. I have noticed that I do this. Its really not intentional, im trying to just go with the flow of the conversation. I believe I was a little frustrated with your reply, very sorry. Now that we know I do this, we'll consider it a problem of mine, just like typing too much and not answering questions directly...I am relitively new to the forums, and I am trying to work on all of this.
Whatever, you don't think you're judging us non-believers by constantly preaching to us and trying to get us to believe in your point of view? Enjoy your delusion.
Im giving you the truth of the Gospel, so that you will at least have it (I am fully open to rebuke from those who know the Gospel as well, and I am always open to spiritual wisdom on any front). In my opinion, I believe it is more delusional to believe
"We didn't start the fire"
jcd11235 0
QuoteThat is exactly right. That is why Jesus exposes us all as sinners...
Fortunately for me, since I think the whole sin concept is a load of crap, then I can't be guilty of sin. Thus, the proverbial Christ didn't die for my sins, since my non belief in sin eliminates the possibility of me being a sinner.
QuoteQuoteRational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
I consider myself a rational person and I have done many things I considered to be wrong. Even still, if saying that makes me irrational, then so be it, I would rather be a man of truth, than a man of rationale.QuoteThere is always some justification to make the action the correct action, whether that assessment ends up being accurate or not. I have no doubt that Hitler felt his actions were justified, just as the Pope feels his actions are justified. I'm sure Nixon felt his actions were justified, just as Ghandi felt his actions were justified. Every intentional action is correct from the perspective from which it is made.
I absolutely agree with you on this.
Do you find it odd that you disagree with that paragraph's introductory sentence, but you "absolutely agree" with the same sentence, reworded, as the concluding sentence of the paragraph?
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jcd11235 0
QuoteIn my opinion, I believe it is more delusional to believe that we have the miracle of life all figured out. But that is only my opinion.
Excellent strawman. Who has claimed to "have the miracle of life all figured out"?
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QuoteQuoteThat is exactly right. That is why Jesus exposes us all as sinners...
Fortunately for me, since I think the whole sin concept is a load of crap, then I can't be guilty of sin. Thus, the proverbial Christ didn't die for my sins, since my non belief in sin eliminates the possibility of me being a sinner.QuoteQuoteRational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
I consider myself a rational person and I have done many things I considered to be wrong. Even still, if saying that makes me irrational, then so be it, I would rather be a man of truth, than a man of rationale.QuoteThere is always some justification to make the action the correct action, whether that assessment ends up being accurate or not. I have no doubt that Hitler felt his actions were justified, just as the Pope feels his actions are justified. I'm sure Nixon felt his actions were justified, just as Ghandi felt his actions were justified. Every intentional action is correct from the perspective from which it is made.
I absolutely agree with you on this.
Do you find it odd that you disagree with that paragraph's introductory sentence, but you "absolutely agree" with the same sentence, reworded, as the concluding sentence of the paragraph?
what????
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteIn my opinion, I believe it is more delusional to believe that we have the miracle of life all figured out. But that is only my opinion.
Excellent strawman. Who has claimed to "have the miracle of life all figured out"?
Uh. Those who believe it is not a miracle.
"We didn't start the fire"
jcd11235 0
Quotewhat????
That's exactly what I thought when you simultaneously disagreed and "absolutely agreed" with the same statement.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteUh. Those who believe it is not a miracle.
Uh, no they haven't. Recognizing the fact that there is zero evidence to support an Intelligent Designer or Creator is not the same as claiming to have life all figured out. There are lots of unanswered questions remaining in Biology. I think you'll have a difficult time finding any biologists who claim otherwise.
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QuoteQuoteUh. Those who believe it is not a miracle.
Uh, no they haven't. Recognizing the fact that there is zero evidence to support an Intelligent Designer or Creator is not the same as claiming to have life all figured out. There are lots of unanswered questions remaining in Biology. I think you'll have a difficult time finding any biologists who claim otherwise.
Ok, im a little confused now. You do believe that life is a miracle? Zero evidence, my goodness, What do you think the beauty on the earth is all about? You can claim there is no evidence of something greater all you want, but you cant claim that life is a miracle and that there is nothing greater at the same time.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuotewhat????
That's exactly what I thought when you simultaneously disagreed and "absolutely agreed" with the same statement.
I guess your gonna have to explain that.
"We didn't start the fire"
jcd11235 0
QuoteYou do believe that life is a miracle?
No, it's not a miracle. People fornicate and conceive. There's nothing miraculous about it. Sperm meets egg, offers some cheesy line; egg falls for cheesy line; sperm and egg are united into an embryo. No divine intervention required.QuoteZero evidence, my goodness, …
This discussion has been done to death, and still, no one has offered any evidence of a supreme being.QuoteWhat do you think the beauty on the earth is all about?
Perception.QuoteYou can claim there is no evidence of something greater all you want, but you cant claim that life is a miracle and that there is nothing greater at the same time.
I didn't make that claim; you did. I simply didn't bother to correct you immediately. I'll try to do better next time and point out every manner in which you're wrong, instead of just the highlights.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!
jcd11235 0
QuoteQuoteQuotewhat????
That's exactly what I thought when you simultaneously disagreed and "absolutely agreed" with the same statement.
I guess your gonna have to explain that.
Try rereading the post with the paragraph in question. It should be blatantly obvious.
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QuoteQuoteYou do believe that life is a miracle?
No, it's not a miracle. People fornicate and conceive. There's nothing miraculous about it. Sperm meets egg, offers some cheesy line; egg falls for cheesy line; sperm and egg are united into an embryo. No divine intervention required.Quote
The miracle is in the connection you will never make, life is in the seed, there has to be a beginning, not to just the earth, but to life itself.QuoteWhat do you think the beauty on the earth is all about?
Perception.
Yes, we agree on this. We do actually agree on things you know. That shows similarities in our beliefs.QuoteYou can claim there is no evidence of something greater all you want, but you cant claim that life is a miracle and that there is nothing greater at the same time.
I didn't make that claim; you did. I simply didn't bother to correct you immediately. I'll try to do better next time and point out every manner in which you're wrong, instead of just the highlights.
Ok, so you dont believe life is a miracle. Now we know what one of our primary differences is, besides Gods existance...and I think you do quite well in pointing out all the ways in which I am wrong in your eyes. I told you, if I am wrong, I will admit it, but you and I are looking through two almost completely different lenses...our perceptions are very different."We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotewhat????
That's exactly what I thought when you simultaneously disagreed and "absolutely agreed" with the same statement.
I guess your gonna have to explain that.
Try rereading the post with the paragraph in question. It should be blatantly obvious.
I did, several times. Its not. I said a while back that evil works in deception, that the nazis loved one another and believed in their cause (true nazis). I agree that just because someone does something they think is right, doesnt mean that it is. But what you said first was something different. You said that a rational person does not intentionally do something he knows is wrong, and I said, that I have done many things I know was wrong, and if that makes me an irrational person then fine. The difference is that I am admitting that what I did was wrong, and the people you spoke of in the second part of your paragraph couldnt see their wrong. Therein lies the difference. So how is it that I agree and disagree at the same time?
"We didn't start the fire"
jcd11235 0
QuoteSo how is it that I agree and disagree at the same time?
Because you disagreed with:
Rational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
but absolutely agreed with:
Every intentional action is correct from the perspective from which it is made.
despite them being substantially the same statement.
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QuoteQuoteSo how is it that I agree and disagree at the same time?
Because you disagreed with:
Rational people do not intentionally do anything they consider to be wrong.
but absolutely agreed with:
Every intentional action is correct from the perspective from which it is made.
despite them being substantially the same statement.
Im telling you the truth, I am confused still...this sounds like a trick to me. Why would you trick me anyway? Are you possibly the one using persuasion? What exactly do you gain from this? Your mind is very powerful, but I would rather have power in the heart than in the mind, I just hope your using your mind for good.
"We didn't start the fire"
jcd11235 0
QuoteIm telling you the truth, I am confused still...this sounds like a trick to me.
It's no trick. It's a fairly common writing technique to rewrite the introductory sentence to create the concluding sentence, or vice versa. Their respective purposes are different, but their content is often similar.
QuoteWhy would you trick me anyway?
Outside of gambling, I can't think of any reason. Since I've not proposed any wager, it's a safe bet, so to speak, that I'm not trying to trick you.
QuoteAre you possibly the one using persuasion?
Isn't that what Speakers Corner is about?
QuoteWhat exactly do you gain from this?
I get to practice my typing skills.
QuoteYour mind is very powerful, but I would rather have power in the heart than in the mind, I just hope your using your mind for good.
In my spare time, I destroy galaxy clusters and buy whiskey and cigarettes for preschoolers. That doesn't sound so bad, does it?
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!
clever, but you are beginning to show me more and more that you havent read the Gospel, and you definitely havent understood it...here...
Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven
Judging someone by our laws and judging someone in your heart are different. You can condemn someone else of something you are yourself guilty of, by our law, but not by Gods. Our law doesnt care about the heart, Gods does. Our law is not spiritual and doesnt show even a fraction of the mercy that Gods does...and you cant pay off God.
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