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Cut the crap about US human rights abuses to Japan. There was a war. Japan started it. The US ended it.
It was a massive human rights abuse so there is really nothing crap about it.
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And as for plans for domination, you are not reading what I wrote. If the US was that interedted in maintaining domination, Japan would be a US territory and we wouldn't thave worried in the 80's about Japanese economic threats.
It isn't a matter of 'if', it happened and your hypothesis doesn't make sense. The US didn't need to occupy Japan in that manner.
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The US actually gave back something it didn't have to give back.
Oh really
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And we are friendly with Japan. And Germany. And Italy. Because there was a time when the US did things correctly.
Yeah I am sure that Italy really appreciated it when the US came in at the end of the war and broke up democratic institutions and restored fascist leadership.
They didn't have to give it back at all though right? If we go by your standard of conflict resolution and not anything based in reality.
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What is different?
We didn't fight back against our pre-emptive attackers.
Iraq - and to an extent Afghanistan - became Pearl Harbor and the US was the attacker.
Sure it is aggression.
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I'm surprised you didn't see the difference. Then again, you seem to think the US was wrong for fighting back against Japan's preiemptive attack. And that the US is wrong for it's pre-emptive attack.
I never said any of that.
I am saying that fighting back against Japan even with elements of legitimacy says nothing about the US's overall intention for the region.
Obviously dropping atom bombs and firebombing chunks of the population is not included in legitimate methods of defense.
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Wow. Where do I start on this one?
First, America was attacked at Pearl Harbor. Almost as many people died there as in 9/11. The next day Congress declared war on Japan. But of course, in the eyes of your strict Marxist perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if you think the US staged the attack to further our economic goals.
1. I am not a Marxist
2. Don't hypothesize conspiracies because you have no better points to argue
3. America was attacked - yeah I get it.
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Second, both Germany and Japan were knocking off countries one by one. It was clear to anyone, both at the time and after the fact, that their aggregate goal was world domination through military means.
World domination? Not only is that widely untrue historically but it was not clear to 'anyone' at the time.
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You don't think that the wish to avoid being militarily occupied might have played some small role in our entering the war?
Maybe it was a passing concern however Hawaii and South East Asia are not mainland USA.
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Third, with your statement "You don't need to micro manage the political sphere to retain hegemony over the economic sphere." I take it you are conceding the original point and that you agree Japan is a democracy where we played a role in its establishment.
I never said Japan was not a liberal democracy and the US role in its establishment as with all its efforts at creating democracy for other nations came with economic strings.
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Cut the crap about US human rights abuses to Japan. There was a war. Japan started it. The US ended it.
It was a massive human rights abuse so there is really nothing crap about it.
No shit. War is a human rights abuse. It happened on all sides - yes, even the Italians.
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And as for plans for domination, you are not reading what I wrote. If the US was that interedted in maintaining domination, Japan would be a US territory and we wouldn't thave worried in the 80's about Japanese economic threats.
It isn't a matter of 'if', it happened and your hypothesis doesn't make sense. The US didn't need to occupy Japan in that manner.
Nor duid Japan need to attack us in that manner. Nor did Japan neeed to continue fighting. Nor did we need to fight back.
Nothing "needs" to be done. The US occupied Japan. The US didn't need to implement the Marshall Plan. Let me guess - another US fascist power grab?
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The US actually gave back something it didn't have to give back.
Oh really
Yes. We could have carpet bombed the rest of Japan. We didn't. I take it that America was wrong (no matter what, America did the wrong thing. I know)
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And we are friendly with Japan. And Germany. And Italy. Because there was a time when the US did things correctly.
Yeah I am sure that Italy really appreciated it when the US came in at the end of the war and broke up democratic institutions and restored fascist leadership.
They didn't have to give it back at all though right? If we go by your standard of conflict resolution and not anything based in reality.
You've shown yourself. You assert that Mussolini (leader of the Partito Nazionale Fascista) was not a fascist.
Il Duce was not a fascist. Nor was Emmanuel.
Bonomi was encouraged to stay on by Churchill.
Parri - didn't last long.
De Gasperi? A fascist?
Good bye. Calling de Gasperi a fascist who was not popularly elected is great revisionism.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
One more thing about dropping atom bombs and firebombing. Correct - it is not included as a legitimate method of defense. Present tense.
It, however, was in the past a legitimate method of defense. As was poison gas. And flamethrowers. And hot oil.
Execution is not regarded as a legitimate form of punsijment throughout much of the world. It sure was for everywhere except the last 50 years.
Back in 1945 atomic bombs, carpet bombing, buzz bombs WERE legitimate.
So clever use of present tense. No, it "is" not. But it "was.". Which is the relevant inquiry.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
It, however, was in the past a legitimate method of defense. As was poison gas. And flamethrowers. And hot oil.
Execution is not regarded as a legitimate form of punsijment throughout much of the world. It sure was for everywhere except the last 50 years.
Back in 1945 atomic bombs, carpet bombing, buzz bombs WERE legitimate.
So clever use of present tense. No, it "is" not. But it "was.". Which is the relevant inquiry.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
TomAiello 26
QuoteYou must have a really strong sense of the innate goodness of man. I don't share that view. I believe that in the absence of a stable government and, in particular, lacking a robust legal system, society would more closely resemble a Mad Max movie than anything we would consider democracy.
Right. Because after WWI, when no one occupied and rebuilt it, Germany definitely looked a lot like a Mad Max movie.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Wow. Where do I start on this one?
First, America was attacked at Pearl Harbor. Almost as many people died there as in 9/11. The next day Congress declared war on Japan. But of course, in the eyes of your strict Marxist perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if you think the US staged the attack to further our economic goals.
Second, both Germany and Japan were knocking off countries one by one. It was clear to anyone, both at the time and after the fact, that their aggregate goal was world domination through military means. You don't think that the wish to avoid being militarily occupied might have played some small role in our entering the war?
Third, with your statement "You don't need to micro manage the political sphere to retain hegemony over the economic sphere." I take it you are conceding the original point and that you agree Japan is a democracy where we played a role in its establishment.
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