IRA caught selling bombs to crime gangs

[normiss 898]

Oh, I didn't realise that you are Irish, what part of Ireland were you born in?

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I'm a second generation of Irish to be born in the US, from County Antrim[/reply
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Yes the BRITISH did do some terrible acts in Ireland just as some Irish did some terrible acts in England. I make no excuse for the crimes that the BRITISH commited in Ireland but I'm not stupid enough to hold all Irish responsible for the crimes that were committed outside of Ireland by some Irish against non Irish OR the crimes committed by Irish against Irish.
Also Northern Ireland is PART of the United Kingdom and is so because that is the wish of the people of the island of Ireland that live there, they voted to remain British in a democratic vote held last year in the province. (You do belieive in democracy don't you?)

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Since the late 1700's the Irish have fought the british for their independence. The british have finally (or so it seems) by history of force and deception, won the war with Northern Ireland, and yes the vote was in favor of that although we don't all allways agree with those results.

That is why we had the Good friday agreement and why Sinn Fein is ruling the north of Ireland along with the Ulster Unionists. Thats why Britan ended operation Banner and decommisioned the military posts and redeployed the troops to other theaters of operations (to support American invasions and occupation around the globe). Pretty funny to hear an american banging on about the injustices of foriegn occupation

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Simply being an American doesn't mean I have to agree with what our government does. You blindly follow yours?

Actually Ireland uses the Euro and got rid of the Irish Punt years ago and the money in the north of Ireland is minted not by the bank of England but by Ulster Bank and The bank of Ireland. as for the 'King' the only 'King' we've had in my life time was Elvis

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I did think it was nice that Ireland accepted the Euro, but never seemed to really like the sterling. This was an economic decision though, wasn't it?

Mass emigration due to lack of work was responsible for most of the population decline in the last century most of which occured after the Republic of Ireland was established and was ruled by Irishmen. As for poverty Ireland is now a well off country whos people are doing well, I guess you never heard of the Celtic Tiger.

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The discrimination of the work force in Ireland had much to do with this also. That discrminiation was based on political and religous beliefs. The Celtic Tiger, by most accounts, has been sleeping for a number of years now.

True, we've done alot of bad things over the years just as America has and continues to do around the world. But that was in 1845 ad about the same time as americans were commiting the genocide of the Native Americans.

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Americans have caused starvation against an unarmed country???? With all the food we have historically given to foreign countries, including those that would see us dead? Remember we Americans left britain to avoid the exact thing britain was doing to Ireland?? We (thankfully) had the means to resist unlike the Irish. In fact, some of those involved with the initial colonization of America were, hold on to your pants...English! Google the West Country Men if you need help remembering.

No any stand against the Queen and the State is treason, planting bombs that kill innocent civillians men, women and children the majority of whom have been Irish. THATS terrorism.

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We're going to have to disagree here...when a country's population have historically fought back with any means available against an armed occupation is resistance. Very similar to the foolish situations our American government continues to put our country in.

Stop what? Just exactly how many (If any at all) days have you ever spent in Ireland?

The british have forced an acceptance of Northern Ireland being a part of GB. It's taken a long time and a lot of lives. From outright murder of leaders to imprisonment of resisters, they have simply overpowered those that wanted independence. Ireland never really had the resources to defend itself.

Thats because you are an american who understands nothing about Ireland or the suffering of the Irish people, not in 1845 but since 1969. To say that and then have the bare faced cheek to say that you care about Ireland is a oxymoron.

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Actually I'm interested in the long-term history, as that is what plants the seed of either hatred or fellowship of an invading force by the occupied country. It hasn't always worked for America either. What's left of britain's "empire"?
Ireland was given nothing but fear and silence of britain for a very long time.

And if you knew the first thing about Ireland today you'd know that neither are we. In fact even Iain Paisley and Martin McGuinnes are known as the chuckle brothers these days as they're getting along so well. (Google them if you haven't heard of them).
Anyway, I've taken enough of your time, so I'll say 'top of the mornin', to yer' and let you get back to learning history by watching 'Far and away'. Ciao!

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I've not seen this movie....not a Tom Cruise fan by any means I preferred to listen to my family of their experiences throughout life to fuel my interest in Irish history.

Hopefully some day, Ireland will truly be an independent country.

[Skyrad 0]

OK, so what I get from your last post is that although you claim to be Irish you've never even been there and for the last two generations your family are in fact ...Americans.
Its good to know ones families roots and I can understand the sympathy you feel towards where your family originaly hail from however you're no more Irish than I am a Frenchman.
The problem with the decendents of ex-pats of any kind is that there is a tendency to cling with a passion to the values and belifes that your forefathers emigrated with without realising that in the mother country things have and are moving on. Coming from a mixed background which is Asian on one side I see this all to often. Indian families over in the UK are often way more conservative than Indian families in India. Why? Because of a fear of loosing their cultural identity. But keeping hold of uninformed blind hated of the British isn't very healthy or useful.
Things have moved on a hell of a long way from the days of the potato famine.
There is no compulsion in Northern Ireland for the people to vote for staying British, they're better off than they have been for years and things are getting better.
You should try and honour your ancestors by getting on a plane and getting out to Ireland, have a look around and see for yourself whats really going on. Its a beautiful country and the people are fantastic and in the words of Bertie Ahern, "Ireland is at peace" its taken a long time to get there, don't be wishing more suffering on the country.
As for armed resistence, that I understand even if I don't always agree with it. However, I'm not talking about attacks on the military. It simply isn't possible to defend the bomb attacks on Omagh, Eniskillen, Warington to name but a few . I suggest you read up on them before trying to justify them as they were nothing short of mass murder of innocents.
Also Ireland stopped using Sterling generations before it turned to the Euro.

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Actually I'm interested in the long-term history,

Fine, just don't confuse it with today, because its just that...History.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 898]

Where the hell you came up with me not even going to Ireland is stunning to me. I also don't recal claiming to be Irish. I would however consider myself to be of Irish heritage.
I also enjoyed your "I have friends in Ireland and my wedding is going to be there" I love Ireland and it's my usual overseas vacation. It's even nice to visit the ancestors with the checkpoints now gone...they were quit intimidating for those who don't have to endure an armed foreign presence in your own country.
Like defending racial injustice with "some of my closest friends are black".

I never justified the use of pipe bombings on civilians...and I still stick to my first comment...where the hell does the IRA play into the pipe bombs on the other side of Ireland????
A guy in California grows weed for a gang...a guy in Florida smokes weed....apparently he supports California gangs in your mind.

I'm always surprised how quickly people want to forget history. There's a lot to be learned from it you know.

You're referring to Omagh BEFORE the peace accord, NOT the recent bombings. Omagh WAS a paramilitary action against those that caved to the presence of britain.
Same for Enniskillen (spelled correctly for you too) - that was in the late 80's if I recall correctly.
And isn't Warrington (I was also kind enough to correct the spelling there) is in ENGLAND!!!

I thought you were talking about RECENT pipe bombs in Ireland???? You are aware they do in fact make pipes and explosive materials outside of Northern Ireland don't you? All four recent bomb incidents in Dublin have not been linked to any one group! Yet you come on here spouting off that the IRA are a terrorist group? I'm still very unclear on how you reach that conclusion. It seems you're upset that they have in the past -sorry, I know you don't wat to discuss the past history unless it supports your story- made attacks in protest and against the occupation of their country by the british.

[jakee 1,596]

Post deleted due to PA's

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 898]

Nice PA.
See you in a month.
I didn't defend the attacks, I simply defined their purpose and timing in response to a reference of the use of pipe bombs in the RECENT news...that is what started this discussion. Yet evecryone seems to have trouble staying on point.
Innocent civilians are always injured and killed in military actions. A sad but true fact.
WWII was an awful example of that effect on a nearly global scale, on all sides.

[sfc 1]

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Nice PA.
See you in a month.
I didn't defend the attacks, I simply defined their purpose and timing in response to a reference of the use of pipe bombs in the RECENT news...that is what started this discussion. Yet evecryone seems to have trouble staying on point.
Innocent civilians are always injured and killed in military actions. A sad but true fact.
WWII was an awful example of that effect on a nearly global scale, on all sides.

Omagh was a terrorist attack not a military action, no soldiers died,
have a look at the people who died here http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/omagh/dead.html how many soldiers do you see, I see children and pregnant mothers. You make me sick with your defense of this. You sound like one of those armchair terrorists who send cash to noraid which was then used to fund this kind of activity.

You are two generations out from being Irish with some romantic idea from stories spread with a twist to get people like you to open their wallets, the proof being you support the actions of a bunch of thugs, even when the Irish (south of the border, no English there) call them criminals and explain how they left bombs where kids could get hurt, it is sickening. You don't even know what it is like over there you are just perpetuating support the kind of violence that many Irish and English folks have worked for years to stop.

The RIRA & CIRA are terrorists, get it, check with the state department, they are the same kind of people that are blowing up our soldiers in Iraq.

[jakee 1,596]

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I didn't defend the attacks,

Yes you did. You claimed that the planting of a bomb outside a shopping centre that was aimed at and killed only innocent civilians (nearly half of them children) was not a terrorist action. That's a defence, and a completely absurd one.

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Yet everyone seems to have trouble staying on point

And you seem to have great difficulty understanding that when the IRA sells pipe bombs to criminals, there isa high probability that those bombs will be used in criminal enterprise.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 898]

nah, simply waiting for proof that the IRA is involved in the pipe bombs.
heaven't seen it in the news articles at all.

I can see troubling similiarities to Iraq for the US....we kill and imprison those we dislike...so they strike out in the only ways they can....but let's quickly forget history, what's happening this week????

never contributed a dime to their cause nor would I

hard to fight a war against england when you have nothing to start with - they were quite frustrated with an armed invasion from my view

seems a lot of the brits are still pissed that only two countries are left of the "empire"

back to your curry chaps...i've had my fill of the discussion, sorry for your troubles

[jakee 1,596]

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seems a lot of the brits are still pissed that only two countries are left of the "empire"

No one I know gives a flying fuck that we no longer have an empire. What's that got to do with recognising terrorist attacks when you see them?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

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Where the hell you came up with me not even going to Ireland is stunning to me.

I asked how many days if any you've spent in Ireland and you dodged the question. Also your use here of the future tense 'going' instead of the past tense 'been' is pretty much a give away.

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I also don't recal claiming to be Irish.

Let me remind you then...

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one englishman in Ireland was and is too much with the raping of our people....

there's still a valid reason why we don't prefer to accept the king's silver....keep your bloody pounds.....


I'm a second generation of Irish to be born in the US, from County Antrim...

You're not second generation Irish, you are second generation american, nothing more, possibly nothing less. You weren't born in Ireland, haven't lived there (You would have said by now if you had,) and you're sure as hell not a citizen or even a resident of Ireland. Your father wasn't even Irish. Get a grip old boy.

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I would however consider myself to be of Irish heritage.

OK

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I also enjoyed your "I have friends in Ireland and my wedding is going to be there"

let alone the fact that I live in Ireland and have done on and off for the last few years and have Irish ancestory

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I love Ireland and it's my usual overseas vacation.

I simply don't believe you, i don't think you've spent a day in the country. Spending pounds Sterling before the Euro were you? Here that often that you forgot to notice the Army isn't on the streets any more or that anything has changed since the potato famine No I suspect your usual holiday destination is under a bridge in Scandinavia waiting for the billy goats gruff.

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It's even nice to visit the ancestors with the checkpoints now gone...they were quit intimidating for those who don't have to endure an armed foreign presence in your own country.

I see you've at least had the decency to get onto Google since you last posted.

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Like defending racial injustice with "some of my closest friends are black".

You very funny man

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I never justified the use of pipe bombings on civilians...

Yet you justify the mass murder of Irish men women children and even unborn children blown to bits in their Irish Catholic Mothers womb by car bombs. Clearly you are a supporter of terrorist organisations that have been declared terrorist organisations even by the US government.

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and I still stick to my first comment...where the hell does the IRA play into the pipe bombs on the other side of Ireland????

if you'd ever been here (which you obviously haven't you'd know that Belfast and Dublin are on the same side of the island and that they are only a hour and a half drive from each other. (Must try harder old bean) As for the connection, its so clearly documented that I'll not even try to explain it again.

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A guy in California grows weed for a gang...a guy in Florida smokes weed....apparently he supports California gangs in your mind.

"Nod and smile, he likes that don't you aged P." (Google it)

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I'm always surprised how quickly people want to forget history. There's a lot to be learned from it you know.

And people say the americans don't understand irony

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You're referring to Omagh BEFORE the peace accord, NOT the recent bombings. Omagh WAS a paramilitary action against those that caved to the presence of britain.
Same for Enniskillen (spelled correctly for you too) - that was in the late 80's if I recall correctly.
And isn't Warrington (I was also kind enough to correct the spelling there) is in ENGLAND!!!

Clear attempted justification of mass murder of women and children including a pregnant woman
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/omagh/dead.html

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I thought you were talking about RECENT pipe bombs in Ireland???? You are aware they do in fact make pipes and explosive materials outside of Northern Ireland don't you? All four recent bomb incidents in Dublin have not been linked to any one group! Yet you come on here spouting off that the IRA are a terrorist group? I'm still very unclear on how you reach that conclusion. It seems you're upset that they have in the past -sorry, I know you don't wat to discuss the past history unless it supports your story- made attacks in protest and against the occupation of their country by the british.

So you believe in what you've said here? So you won't mind if I send below

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You're referring to Omagh BEFORE the peace accord, NOT the recent bombings. Omagh WAS a paramilitary action against those that caved to the presence of britain.
Same for Enniskillen

To the families and victims of the bombing along with your e-mail addresses and let you tell them how they deserved it? Maybe they can explain the reality of the situation to you better than I can
http://www.omaghbomb.co.uk/contact_us.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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"Sinn Fein condemned the Omagh atrocity because that was what it was. We did it there and then in unambiguous terms. We made it clear that the families were entitled to justice. Sinn Fein does not run any campaign dissuading people from giving information."

Mitchel McLaughlin, Sinn Fein chairman 2002

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 898]

I didn't dodge it, I simply did not answer. Ancestry and time in country are related how?

Good fo ryou for living in a beautiful country! You should spend some time learning the history.

I have spent many vacations in Ireland. I'm 46 years old and have been through the harrasment crossing into Northern Ireland a number of times. I'd bet more often that you have. As if this means anything of value in this conversation.

I've spent assloads of time on Google over the past few years but I haven't found the need here...except searching for a connection of the IRA and the pipe bombs found in Dublin. There is nothing on the net stating so. The Garda and the british army are asking the public for help is all I can find.

I am well aware of the geographical location of Belfast and Dublin. Love them both. It's a lovely drive too. Challenging for those of us that drive on the right side of the road even.

Even the web site you sent states it:
"Our mission is to promote, advocate, and address where possible, the needs of victims of the conflict in Ireland in order to achieve health, peace of mind, security and the foundations for personal growth. " (bolded so you won't miss it)

Now shall we review the rest of the british atrocities of the past?

[shropshire 0]

B.T.W it's British. It rightly deserves a capital letter (as you used for all of the countries and cities and terrorists in your post)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 898]

my apologies to the British....
Now if you boys could just spell correctly....


You're right, it does deserve capitalization.
Terrorism is inevitable when people of a nation are forced to defend themselves when a powerful nation oppresses and occupies a nation. It's happened in the past to most countries. Britain is not exclusive to this. It's interesting to see our country repeating Britains same mistakes. Sometimes any tactic of survival is sadly inevitable. We Americans have repeatedly had to issue formal apologies and pay retribution for our historical behavior. Can't the British simply apologize for it's treatment of Ireland?
The Spanish? Australia? New Zealand? India? Nepal?
Why wasn't it called terrorism when the British killed unarmed civilians?

[shropshire 0]

(1)


(2) The same reason that the Lads in Iraq aren't being called terrorists (yet) for killing unarmed civilians or Custer and his mates for slaughtering Native Americans.... Winners write history.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

I call bullshit.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 898]

Exactly correct...and what I've been trying to say all along. We Americans have what many would define as war crimes (present administration excepted) in our past and present skirmishes.

Some get on here and make repeated threads agains others only to rile them up.
It works!

History will always be written by the victors. It will always be tainted in their favor.

All victorious countries have some nasty atrocities in their past. Refusing to admit them is simply unacceptible though. The past 5 years does not make "history".

[normiss 898]

Given that you refuse the historic past of your own nation, I'm not surprised.

Alas, I've nothing to prove to you.

Mox Nix I say.

[DZJ 0]

Given that you think blasting women and children into bloody chunks qualifies as anything other than a terrorist atrocity, I'd say Skyrad would be perfectly entitled to ignore you.

[jakee 1,596]

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Given that you think blasting women and children into bloody chunks qualifies as anything other than a terrorist atrocity, I'd say Skyrad would be perfectly entitled to ignore you.

Yep. I'd have thought that finding out they support terrorist actions that even Gerry Adams called an atrocity would make anyone step back and re-assess their opinions. Apparently not

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

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Given that you refuse the historic past of your own nation, I'm not surprised.

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I've forgotten more about Irish history than you'll proberbly ever learn,not only have I read it but I've lived it. Yes I've Irish anecestory but that doesn't make me Irish any more than it does you. I'm British. But my family were from Co Tyrone. In light of that and you're support of the mass murder that occured there, all I can say is your ancestors must be totally ashamed of you.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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[normiss 898]

and then British ancestors are proud of the mass murders they have committed?
you've missed my point entirely!
you're too busy focusing on Ireland's resistance to British rule as anything other than terrorism.
I say that has not always been the case.

and as I initially stated and you continue to avoid. provide something concrete showing the IRA's involvement in the pipe bombs! that IS what you started this thread about isn't it? you've been a busy limey lately trying to stir up emotions of hatred in this forum!
and limey wasn't intended as anything other than reference to Britains prevention of scurvy. and din't your nation steal those limes from "the colonies" anyway????

[DZJ 0]

Meanwhile:

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Officer hurt by booby-trap bomb

An off-duty police officer has been injured by a booby-trap car bomb in County Tyrone.

The explosion happened at Drumnaby Road in Spamount village, outside Castlederg at about 2130 BST on Monday.

The officer, a Catholic, suffered serious leg injuries, however, they are not thought to be life-threatening.

He was rescued by a member of the public who dragged him from the car wreckage. Dissident republicans are being blamed for the attack.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7397420.stm

[normiss 898]

Same government rhetoric. Possibly another double agent??

Does anyone remember the shock with which the British public greeted the revelation four years ago that one of the members of the Real IRA unit whose bombing attack in Omagh on August 15, 1998 killed twenty-nine civilians had been a double agent, a British army soldier?

That soldier was not Britain’s only terrorist double agent. A second British soldier planted within the IRA claimed he had given forty-eight hours advance notice of the Omagh car-bomb attack to his handlers within the Royal Ulster Constabulary, including "details of one of the bombing team and the man’s car registration." Although the agent had made an audio tape of his tip-off call, Sir Ronnie Flanagan, chief constable of the RUC, declared that "no such information was received" (http://www.sundayherald.com/17827).

This second double agent went public in June 2002 with the claim that from 1981 to 1994, while on full British army pay, he had worked for "the Force Research Unit, an ultra-secret wing of British military intelligence," as an IRA mole. With the full knowledge and consent of his FRU and MI5 handlers, he became a bombing specialist who "mixed explosive and … helped to develop new types of bombs," including "light-sensitive bombs, activated by photographic flashes, to overcome the problem of IRA remote-control devices having their signal jammed by army radio units." He went on to become "a member of the Provisional IRA’s ‘internal security squad’—also known as the ‘torture unit’—which interrogated and executed suspected informers" (http://www.sundayherald.com/print25646).

The much-feared commander of that same "torture unit" was likewise a mole, who had previously served in the Royal Marines’ Special Boat Squadron (an elite special forces unit, the Marines’ equivalent to the better-known SAS). A fourth mole, a soldier code-named "Stakeknife" whose military handlers "allowed him to carry out large numbers of terrorist murders in order to protect his cover within the IRA," was still active in December 2002 as "one of Belfast’s leading Provisionals" (http://www.sundayherald.com/29997).

Reliable evidence also emerged in late 2002 that the British army had been using its double agents in terrorist organizations "to carry out proxy assassinations for the British state"—most notoriously in the case of Belfast solicitor and human rights activist Pat Finucane, who was murdered in 1989 by the Protestant Ulster Defence Association. It appears that the FRU passed on details about Finucane to a British soldier who had infiltrated the UDA; he in turn "supplied UDA murder teams with the information" (http://www.sundayherald.com/29997).
British Special Forces?
I mean, if you're going to believe everything...

Thanks for keeping it fun fellows...this "callous, ignorant fuckwit" is certainly enjoying the banter.