“America has hardly even begun to repay its debt to Iraq”

[nerdgirl 0]

“‘America has hardly even begun to repay its debt to Iraq,’ said Abdul Basit, the head of Iraq's Supreme Board of Audit, an independent body that oversees Iraqi government spending. ‘This is an immoral request because we didn't ask them to come to Iraq, and before they came in 2003 we didn't have all these needs.’”

At the same time the US Congress will be voting (as early as next week) on a $108B supplemental bill for OIF & OEF.

During his April Congressional testimony, Ambassador Crocker noted that due to the increase in oil prices Iraq is likely to see $70B in oil-related revenue. (The overall Iraqi budget is less than $50B.)

The request that Mr. Basit mentioned is actions by Congress (not the DoD or the President’s office). Last week the “Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC) approved legislation that would prohibit the Defense Department from funding any [individual] reconstruction or infrastructure program that costs more than $2 million” as well as suspending payment for the Concerned Local Citizens (aka the “Sons of Iraq”) groups. (NB: any money would still have to go through an appropriation committee.)


Should Iraq be responsible for cost-sharing on on security, stabilization, & transition (i.e., the CLCs) and/or reconstruction?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jcd11235 0]

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During his April Congressional testimony, Ambassador Crocker noted that due to the increase in oil prices Iraq is likely to see $70B in oil-related revenue. (The overall Iraqi budget is less than $50B.)

What does the price of oil have to do with it? We broke it, it's our responsibility to make amends. If I were to be convicted of vandalizing an Apple store, should I excused from paying for the damages due to Apple experiencing increasing profits?

Is Ambassador Crocker insinuating that rising fuel costs are a direct result of the US led invasion of Iraq? Is there any reason to believe that fuel prices would not have increased had our CinC not made the ill-advised decision to invade the country?

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Should Iraq be responsible for cost-sharing on security, stabilization, & transition (i.e., the CLCs) and/or reconstruction?

I don't think they should be responsible for anything beyond their previous expenses (those incurred at a rate equivalent to Saddam's government). We broke it, we bought it. As a US taxpayer, I don't like that. However, we chose to invade. Innocent civilian lives were lost, and infrastructure was destroyed. We caused the lack of security. We caused the destabilization. We necessitated the transition costs. We need to be responsible for our actions.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[shropshire 0]

"As you sow, so shall you reap"

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

If I go to your house and knock over a vase, I'll pay for it.
If, when I get ready to leave, you knock it over and break it, and then scream that I broke it, sorry. I replaced it once.

[billvon 3,120]

> If I go to your house and knock over a vase, I'll pay for it.

Unfortunately we haven't just knocked over a vase. We've burned the house down and moved onto the property.

[Royd 0]

> If I go to your house and knock over a vase, I'll pay for it.

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Unfortunately we haven't just knocked over a vase. We've burned the house down and moved onto the property.

Sadly, with childish brats like Mooki Mook Al Sadr running around the jobsite tearing things up as quickly as we fix them, it's one step forward and two steps back.
Once we fix any given item, whether it be a school or a pipeline, and they break it, it's theirs, unless they are willing to foot the bill to fix it. Change orders ain't cheap.

[kallend 2,150]

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> If I go to your house and knock over a vase, I'll pay for it.

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Unfortunately we haven't just knocked over a vase. We've burned the house down and moved onto the property.

Sadly, with childish brats like Mooki Mook Al Sadr running around the jobsite tearing things up as quickly as we fix them, it's one step forward and two steps back.
Once we fix any given item, whether it be a school or a pipeline, and they break it, it's theirs, unless they are willing to foot the bill to fix it. Change orders ain't cheap.

If an univited "guest" comes to your house and takes over, kills your kids, smashes your stuff, are you to blame for damage caused trying to evict him?
You seem to forget that we were NOT invited to Iraq.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Yeah but but they could attack the US of A with their WMDs super-powers.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,120]

>Sadly, with childish brats like Mooki Mook Al Sadr running around
>the jobsite tearing things up as quickly as we fix them, it's one step
>forward and two steps back.

Definitely. Yet we keep him hanging around as a contractor. The people whose house we burned down are starting to wonder what the heck we're doing.

[kelpdiver 2]

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What does the price of oil have to do with it? We broke it, it's our responsibility to make amends.

huh? In war, the loser pays. And let's not forget they were the aggressor.

Somehow all of Iraq's neighbors seem to be able to build themselves lot of shit with oil money. Many buy lots of German cars and grand palaces, while a few look to the next century (Dubai, for example).

Anyone who has finally escaped financial dependence on their parents knows that's it's better to spend your own money as you see fit.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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What does the price of oil have to do with it? We broke it, it's our responsibility to make amends.

huh? In war, the loser pays. And let's not forget they were the aggressor.

Right! Those damn Iraqis invaded our homeland.

[n23x 0]

He means when they crashed airplanes into the WTC. Oh... wait...

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[billvon 3,120]

>And let's not forget they were the aggressor.

Exactly. Through their secret Moon-mounted tractor beams*, Saddam Hussein sucked hundreds of thousands of US troops into Iraq while our president was trying wisely to keep them here at home. What did they expect?

(* - we know these exist because there are no records of them being dismantled. True fact!)

[kelpdiver 2]

There's no question who invaded Kuwait.

Nonewhatsoever.

[shropshire 0]

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In war, the loser pays.

That's Bollocks!! - So how come we have only just finished paying for the 2nd World War?

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And let's not forget they were the aggressor

Eh? YOU attacked THEIR contry - who where they being aggresive to?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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Eh? YOU attacked THEIR contry - who where they being aggresive to?

I think it was their looking at the sky in the no fly zone and going neener neener neener that really set the stage for the invasion.. King George really does not like to be taunted like that.

[christelsabine 1]

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>And let's not forget they were the aggressor.

Exactly. Through their secret Moon-mounted tractor beams*, Saddam Hussein sucked hundreds of thousands of US troops into Iraq while our president was trying wisely to keep them here at home. What did they expect?

(* - we know these exist because there are no records of them being dismantled. True fact!)

Woah. I that you, Bill von Novak? That sounds like - like (British) humour, irony .... I'm on my knees and LMAO

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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He means when they crashed airplanes into the WTC. Oh... wait...

.jim

Exactly.

15 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, 2 from the UAE, 1 Egypt, and 1 Lebanon.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2002/DCI_18_June_testimony_new.pdf

[Amazon 7]

See.. we did attack the wrong countries...Saudi Arabia would have been much easier.. we were already there.

[nerdgirl 0]

According to the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction http://www.sigir.mil/, though 31 March 2008, $46.30B in US funds has been appropriated ($30.58B spent). Through the same time period $50.33 B in Iraqi funds have been appropriated, i.e., $4B more than the US has appropriated, and International donors have pledged $15.89B. Total $112.52B.

(NB: By comparison, ~$3.1B was appropriated for reconstruction of New Orleans and surrounding parishes in 2006 & 2007.)

I'm still thinking about specific recommendations.

Iraq is already cost-sharing in reconstruction. One would hope that the Iraqis would have some investment (some ownership) in the process as to lessen the 'tragedy of the commons' scenario.

From a security perspective, the security, stabilization, and reconstruction of Iraq (the latter to reduce the risk of it becoming a failed state) are important to US foreign policy and defense interests.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[SpeedRacer 1]

shit, you would think that after the American Government went to all that trouble to plant thermite bombs in the world trade center, and bribe everyone necessary to go along with the Conspiracy, that they could have thought to include at LEAST ONE FUCKING IRAQI in the list of hijackers.

Makes me wonder why I bother to pay taxes, if the government is too inept to manage a decent evil conspiracy.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[kelpdiver 2]

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In war, the loser pays.

That's Bollocks!! - So how come we have only just finished paying for the 2nd World War?

you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

As badly damaged as England was by 1945, German was demolished. They didn't exactly get off free - hell, they were cut in half and occupied by the Americans for a half century. Let's hope Iraq doesn't turn out that way.

[kelpdiver 2]

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From a security perspective, the security, stabilization, and reconstruction of Iraq (the latter to reduce the risk of it becoming a failed state) are important to US foreign policy and defense interests.

How important? 250B/yr worth of importance? I think we have far greater uses for that sort of money. If we could pull the troops and just contribute 50B/yr (matching their 50) in infrastructure work, that would be an acceptable step forward. But it seems more like a chasm than a step.

[billvon 3,120]

> In war, the loser pays.

Ah! Well, in that case, just hand them a bill. I think it will be around $550 billion all told. Give them to the end of the month. (Or let's be generous - the end of June.) If they don't pay, leave. Maybe repo all the art and archaeological artifacts in the museums over there. (Well, at least the art that's left.)