England: Murder Rate Soars

[Skyrad 0]

So thats a no then.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Home security? Self-defence? In the UK? Not likely.

I seem to recall the courts in the UK putting a homeowner (farmer?) in jail because he shot a burglar with a shotgun in self-defense..then he was sued by the burglar.

Yep, because he shot him in the back and not in self defence. It is permissable to kill someone in self defence here but not simply for trespass or burglary.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

You really have no idea why he posts this do you

Of course I do. It's his hobby, right?

Obviously, JR loves the UK. Perhaps, one day he will have a chance to visit the British Islands? He surely will be welcome.

I'd be happy to buy him a pint.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[SpeedRacer 1]

Not so sure about the lead thing, since there are so many other factors affecting crime.

And I am very surprised that lead levels were so low in the 1940s. Weren't they using lead paint long before then? And also lead solder in plumbing?

Could the numbers also be affected by more sensitive equipment for testing serum lead levels now?

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

News:

America's 'safety catch'

Despite the fact there are more than 200 million guns in circulation, there is a certain tranquility and civility about American life...

To many foreigners - and to some Americans - the tolerance of guns in everyday American life is simply inexplicable...

Why is it then that so many Americans - and foreigners who come here - feel that the place is so, well, safe?

Brits arriving in New York, hoping to avoid being slaughtered on day one of their shopping mission to Manhattan are, by day two, beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. By day three they have had had the scales lifted from their eyes.

I have met incredulous British tourists who have been shocked to the core by the peacefulness of the place, the lack of the violent undercurrent so ubiquitous in British cities, even British market towns.

"It seems so nice here," they quaver.

Well, it is!

What surprises the British tourists is that, in areas of the US that look and feel like suburban Britain, there is simply less crime and much less violent crime...

Source: BBC

BBC - Justin Webb's America ...

Oh man, that guy has a somewhat dodgy and controversal history. But, I have to admit the way he writes is ... yeah, the way some of Americans like it, right?

LMAO - I'm in tears reading above arcticle...

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

There’s been observed a link (definite correlation … possible causation) between increase in violent crime and lead poisoning in US cities in the late 1970s & 1980s and with the accompanying decrease in crime in the 1990s as exposure to lead has decreased (via elimination of lead in gasoline & paint). Similar lag observed in Canada. Lead … not gun availability or gun control. (See attached graphs.)

And this is contrasted with violence levels in the UK, which did not begin eliminating lead until the mid-1980s and early 1990s and saw increase in violent crime in the 1990s. Hypothesis is to look for a corresponding decrease in violent crime in UK by 2015.

The graph also corresponds with population. 15-25 years after a baby boom, we see a crime boom. I also worry about any trend line that starts in the middle of the 60s when a lot of social norms were tossed aside.

If the UK's slide is shifted by the few years delta on their handling of lead, that's quite intriguing, but I still wonder about all of the external factors.

We're going through the rise in crime again here, long after lead was removed from gas, paint. But if it were just a smaller factor than population, or mercury poisoning, or GTA IV, could still be true. But damn hard to establish. You'd need to look at smaller population groups where the lead timelines were different, and try to control for the effects of migration.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Not so sure about the lead thing, since there are so many other factors affecting crime.

And I am very surprised that lead levels were so low in the 1940s. Weren't they using lead paint long before then? And also lead solder in plumbing?

Could the numbers also be affected by more sensitive equipment for testing serum lead levels now?

All good questions.

Most -- if not all -- are addressed in the primary data, as well as the limitations:
- “Understanding international crime trends: The legacy of preschool lead exposure”
(full text pdf)
- “Validation of a 20-year forecast of US childhood lead poisoning: Updated prospects for 2010”
(full text pdf)
- “How Lead Exposure Relates to Temporal Changes in IQ, Violent Crime, and Unwed Pregnancy”
(full text pdf)
- “Trends in environmental lead exposure and troubled youth, 1960–1995: an age-period-cohort-characteristic analysis.”

And, no it's not the only factor nor that 'simple.' Nonetheless, there is a significant correlation (perhaps causal).

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[SkyPiggie 0]

Quote

...the targetting of innocent gun owners isn't an issue, and has therefore never been the focus.

Um, yes, it was a focus. All law-abiding handgun owners had their handguns confiscated by the government. So you can't claim that it wasn't a focus. When your private property is confiscated for no good reason, that's a darned big focus.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

...the targetting of innocent gun owners isn't an issue, and has therefore never been the focus.

Um, yes, it was a focus. All law-abiding handgun owners had their handguns confiscated by the government. So you can't claim that it wasn't a focus. When your private property is confiscated for no good reason, that's a darned big focus.

In most US legislation, they don't even try to deny that the law abiding owners are the target.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Quote

if you consider British drunken 'yob' culture, or hoodie culture, or whatever it is you might wish to name it, less strict gun laws would only serve to exasperate the situation.

Um, then why did gun crime continue to increase AFTER the gun ban?

Youse guys just can't get it into youse heads that there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and crime, can you!

This seems to be something that is just beyond the comprehension of the anti-gunnies.

Yo anti-gunnies cling to those invalid beliefs the way Obama thinks that frustrated white people cling to their religion and guns.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Quote

Yep, because he shot him in the back and not in self defence. It is permissable to kill someone in self defence here but not simply for trespass or burglary.

So whats a homeowner to do when he finds an intruder inside his home?

"Pardon me, bloke, but I'd like to ask: are you here just to trespass and burgle me, or do you intend me bodily harm? The reason I ask, you see, is that I need to find out if I'm allowed to shoot you or not. If youse just want my telly, well then, go right ahead and take it, and I wont stop you. So, which is it? Oh, so that big knife in your hand is just to cut the cables then? Okay, I guess that's allright then - go right ahead.

Yeah, that'll work really well...

[vortexring 0]

Quote

Quote

...the targetting of innocent gun owners isn't an issue, and has therefore never been the focus.

Um, yes, it was a focus. All law-abiding handgun owners had their handguns confiscated by the government. So you can't claim that it wasn't a focus. When your private property is confiscated for no good reason, that's a darned big focus.

But it wasn't the focus. Ok? It wasn't the fucking focus.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

Quote

Quote

if you consider British drunken 'yob' culture, or hoodie culture, or whatever it is you might wish to name it, less strict gun laws would only serve to exasperate the situation.

Um, then why did gun crime continue to increase AFTER the gun ban?

Youse guys just can't get it into youse heads that there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and crime, can you!

This seems to be something that is just beyond the comprehension of the anti-gunnies.

Yo anti-gunnies cling to those invalid beliefs the way Obama thinks that frustrated white people cling to their religion and guns.

Look, just fuck off alright. You've misread my point either through stupidity or to deliberately make your poorly worded point.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

How does the 2007 UK homicide rate compare with the 2007 USA homicide rate? I'd hate to think JR was throwing stones from a glass house.

Speaking of glass houses....find those Koch postulate proofs yet, Professor?

Why, are you planning to compare guns to anthrax or bubonic plague?

You were the one posting 'studies' comparing guns to disease epidemics, not I.

I await your proofs.

That's rather a stretch, even for you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

if you consider British drunken 'yob' culture, or hoodie culture, or whatever it is you might wish to name it, less strict gun laws would only serve to exasperate the situation.

Um, then why did gun crime continue to increase AFTER the gun ban?

Youse guys just can't get it into youse heads that there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and crime, can you!

This seems to be something that is just beyond the comprehension of the anti-gunnies.
.

There is a very good, well documented, peer reviewed correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates and suicide rates that has been previously posted on thei forum.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

There is a very good, well documented, peer reviewed correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates and suicide rates that has been previously posted on thei forum.

if you strike out the words "very good," yeah, it's true. One of the many that want to imply causation when they've only shown correlation, and very obvious correlation at that.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

if you consider British drunken 'yob' culture, or hoodie culture, or whatever it is you might wish to name it, less strict gun laws would only serve to exasperate the situation.

Um, then why did gun crime continue to increase AFTER the gun ban?

Youse guys just can't get it into youse heads that there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and crime, can you!

This seems to be something that is just beyond the comprehension of the anti-gunnies.
.

There is a very good, well documented, peer reviewed correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates and suicide rates that has been previously posted on thei forum.

Did you have a spelling error on this forum? Holly fucking shit. You have now lost your nose in the air I am better than your fucking god dam(n) place within this forum.

It must be terrible to be defrocked

(and I dont care if I mis-spelled a word in this post)



Oh how enjoyed this post

(even if it made me look the ass)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

(even if it made me look the ass)

For once, you are absolutely correct.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

There is a very good, well documented, peer reviewed correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates and suicide rates that has been previously posted on thei forum.

if you strike out the words "very good," yeah, it's true. One of the many that want to imply causation when they've only shown correlation, and very obvious correlation at that.

Skypiggie referred to correlation, and I responded to his post. Take it up with him.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[crozby 0]

Quote

if you consider British drunken 'yob' culture, or hoodie culture, or whatever it is you might wish to name it, less strict gun laws would only serve to exasperate the situation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Um, then why did gun crime continue to increase AFTER the gun ban?

Youse guys just can't get it into youse heads that there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and crime, can you!

This seems to be something that is just beyond the comprehension of the anti-gunnies.

Yo anti-gunnies cling to those invalid beliefs the way Obama thinks that frustrated white people cling to their religion and guns.

Mate, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe in the US more guns = less crime, but that almost certainly wouldn't be the case in the UK.

If you polled Brits by far the majority would expect an increase in guns correlating with an increase in gun related crime.

Its not because they are 'anti-gunnies', its because they have grown up in the UK and they understand the British mentality.

Drunk Brits and guns just wouldn't work and British police would not be mentally equipt to deal with a gun-toting population. They are already struggling with the increased gun-related crime imported along with the Yardies.

Plus, how would you introduce guns in the UK?

In the states guns have been common-place for generations - people understand them better and respect them better. They learn about them from an early age.

Contrast that to suddenly arming the UK population - a bunch of people who've not grown up with, and not been taught how to respect guns.

You'd be introducing a new level of Friday night carnage for at least a generation IMO.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

(even if it made me look the ass)

For once, you are absolutely correct.

It is less painful to "look the ass" than to be one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Skypiggie referred to correlation, and I responded to his post. Take it up with him.

I've got to give you that one, John.

[piper17 1]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/Features/TonyMartin/asp/KeyEvents.asp

Here is one link to the entire story. I still don't see any reference to shooting one of the burglars in the back. Then again, so what?

In Connecticut in recent months we have had a number of home invasions where the residents were murdered by the burglars including one in which three women (mother and two daughters) were murdered and burned, only the husband (badly beaten) survived. The perps both had lengthy criminal records.

Break into a person's home...pay the price!

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[DZJ 0]

Quote

http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/Features/TonyMartin/asp/KeyEvents.asp

Here is one link to the entire story. I still don't see any reference to shooting one of the burglars in the back. Then again, so what? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

• Quote