What do you think should be the purpose for imprisonment/punishment

[lawrocket 3]

There seem to be some folks who are positing the idea that punishment of criminals is wrong. Retribution, they say, creates a moral and logical problem.

With reagrd to the death penalty, many argue, "Why is the state killing people to show that killing people is bad?" I posit that if a penal system is based on punishment this does not matter. Secondly, I would ask, "What do we do with a kidnapper?"

I am not philosophically opposed to capital punishment. Nor am I philosophically opposed to rehabilitation or sequestration as purposes for the justice system. Nevertheless, I do not believe that the retributive purpose should be overlooked.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

#1 - prevention of further crimes against the innocents
#2 - retribution-revenge
#3 - punishment to make the victims "feel" good
#4 - deterence example to others
#5 - God says so
#6 - rehabilitation
#7 - makes good newscasts

#1 - True reason and only meaningful one in terms of large society perspective

#4,#6 - It's ok to think this and sometimes happens, but very 2ndary and not on the same planet with #1

#2/3/5/7 - social masturbation and totally out of line with a crisp sense of right and wrong in service of the species, self gratification of people that make dispassionate enforcement of law a painful and clumsy process clouded by people that confuse their emotional needs with the needs of others and society as a whole

IMHO

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

Punishment for the sake of punishment (society getting revenge) doesn't make much sense, but punishment as a deterrent to other potential criminals does.

Punishment should focus on forcing the criminal to repay society for his/her crime. There should be work prisons that require the criminal to actually work until s/he pays off not only the damages caused by the crime, but also the costs of the legal expenses and the costs of his/her own imprisonment.

You commit a crime, you will be doing hard work for a very long time.

That said, if the criminal works & pays off his/her debt, they can put their work experience on a resume & start an honest life.

Speed Racer
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[Amazon 7]

I want them removed from society.

BUT most will be getting out someday. I would rather they be given an education and job training that will Help them when they get out..to be productive members of society rather than learning how to be better criminals while they are there.

Isolating the hard core criminals from the petty ones would go a long way towards that end. Put all the really bad ones into the type of facility they deserve.....they did the crime.. they need to do the time.

Lifers would get very special treatment in my ideal prison... the loss of contact with the outside world so they can still affect other peoples lives is wrong. Many of them do not feel they have anything to lose and become very dangerous people to anyone.. prisoners and correction officers alike. People like that just need to be buried in a special cell where they have all the access to information and even TV going in but make it incapable of anything going out. They get their few square feet to rule over and that is it...they have been erased from the rest of our conscienceness for their crimes.

[rehmwa 2]

Go get em, Jeanne

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AWL71 0]

The purpose of prison is to punish but we also need to try and rehabilitate the criminals that will be getting out. Some criminals/killers/rapists are beyond help and those should be in a maximum security prison and stay there until they die.

I think more prisons should be self sufficient. Make the prisoners grow their own food, do their own cleaning etc. They should not be allowed to watch TV and work out all day. Prison is about punishment and the prisoners that want help to rejoin the outside world should get it.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[BillyVance 35]

Quote

I want them removed from society.

BUT most will be getting out someday. I would rather they be given an education and job training that will Help them when they get out..to be productive members of society rather than learning how to be better criminals while they are there.

Isolating the hard core criminals from the petty ones would go a long way towards that end. Put all the really bad ones into the type of facility they deserve.....they did the crime.. they need to do the time.

Lifers would get very special treatment in my ideal prison... the loss of contact with the outside world so they can still affect other peoples lives is wrong. Many of them do not feel they have anything to lose and become very dangerous people to anyone.. prisoners and correction officers alike. People like that just need to be buried in a special cell where they have all the access to information and even TV going in but make it incapable of anything going out. They get their few square feet to rule over and that is it...they have been erased from the rest of our conscienceness for their crimes.

I would throw the baddest of the bad into a cage and let them all fight to the death. Why not save some tax money?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[rehmwa 2]

Don't just 'save' the tax money.

make a profit

put it on Pay per View

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

The Romans did that.

Speed Racer
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[rehmwa 2]

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The Romans did that.

when in Rome....

(thanks, I know you did that on purpose)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I would throw the baddest of the bad into a cage and let them all fight to the death. Why not save some tax money?

My purpose.. would be to eliminate the death penalty... that INCLUDES the backdoor death penalty of turning non-violent criminals over to needle dicks who get off on harming and killing other human beings.
I do not support state sponsored murder in my name.. and I certainly dont want psychotic prisoners getting their jollies doing it either. The fact that Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in Jail is an appaling indictment AGAINST our "criminal justice" system. AS despicable as he was.. I would have a nice special Hannibal Lecter kind of cell for him that he would never be allowed of..

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

#1 - prevention of further crimes against the innocents
#2 - retribution-revenge
#3 - punishment to make the victims "feel" good
#4 - deterence example to others
#5 - God says so
#6 - rehabilitation
#7 - makes good newscasts

#1 - True reason and only meaningful one in terms of large society perspective

#4,#6 - It's ok to think this and sometimes happens, but very 2ndary and not on the same planet with #1

#2/3/5/7 - social masturbation and totally out of line with a crisp sense of right and wrong in service of the species, self gratification of people that make dispassionate enforcement of law a painful and clumsy process clouded by people that confuse their emotional needs with the needs of others and society as a whole

IMHO

Close to my feelings, but not quite.
The purpose of the criminal justice system is to lower the crime rate. Prevention of crimes by previous offenders is no more or less important than prevention of crimes by those who have thus far been clean. After all to be murdered by one person is largely the same as to be murdered by another. With that in mind I would say that #s 1,4&6 are all means toward the stated end (lower crime rate). #s 5&7 are irrelevant. #s 2&3 are detrimental to the prosecutors of the punishment.

[BillyVance 35]

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Don't just 'save' the tax money.

make a profit

put it on Pay per View

With a good cut of the proceeds going to benefit the crime victims. I like it.

Oh and Amazon, I was joking.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[jcd11235 0]

I agree with Amazon. I they are likely to be released back into society, they need to be better prepared to be productive members of society upon release than they were upon entry. Education seems to be the most efficient method to achieve that goal.

With proper implementation, I would probably even support education requirements as part of the sentences, for example, the longer of five years or satisfactory completion of a B.S./B.A. degree program.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Close to my feelings, but not quite.

\

Good enough for government work.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

I would like to add about my previous post about how the criminal should be made to work to LITERALLY pay his debt to society:

What about victimless crimes? (ie, Joe sells Sam a $40 bag of weed, and so the cops arrest both of them. Who is the injured party here that needs to get paid back?)

Well, they shouldn't have been designated as crimes in the first place. Part of the reason we have so many "criminals" is that we have too many laws. Legalize the non-crimes of choice, such as drugs and prostitution, as long as only consenting adults were involved.

Speed Racer
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[normiss 906]

So are you saying you're good with innocent blood on your hands?
Death is final, that is my only argument.
I don't trust our system to that degree and history continues to support that.

A life sentence should be just that....and the death penaly is no deterrent.

[happythoughts 0]

In Florida, they figured out the 80/20 rule.
20% of the criminals doing 80% of the crime.

Put that 20% in jail for a guaranteed 85% of the sentence, instead of the old 50%, and crime goes down.

Plus, the 10-20-Life rule.
Pull a gun? 10 years.
Shoot it? 20.
Shoot someone? Min 25.

Result?
10-20-LIFE has helped to drive down Florida's violent-gun crime rates by 30%. The state's 2004, "Index Crime" rate is now the lowest in 34 years, and the violent crime rate is the lowest in a quarter century.

During this time, the population increased 16%.
clicky

That said, yesterday I went to have lunch with my sister and visit my dad where I used live.

Four people robbed a bank and raced down a 3-lane one-way street at 100mph, going the wrong way.
(A street that our lunch restaurant was on.)

Then, when the car crashed, one attempted to carjack a getaway vehicle. That one was on probation already.
So much for rehabilitation.

They caught two of the four who will likely not be around for a while.
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