Sounds like other redistribution stories

[rehmwa 2]

I'd like to thank all of you that supplemented my rebate/redistribution check. Though I suspect I sit in the $25 seats

here's a little story - sounds a bit like the restaurant story:

"In case you still find the Tax Rebate confusing ...

Upcoming Tax Rebate Explained

This is a great explanation of the tax rebate program recently enacted by Congress. If you don't understand how it will work maybe this explanation will help:

50,000 people went to a baseball game, but the game was rained out.  A refund was then due to the ticket holders. The team was about to mail refunds when a group of Congressional Democrats stopped them and suggested that they send out the ticket refunds based on the Democrat National Committee's interpretation of fairness. Originally the refunds were to be paid based on the price each person had paid for the tickets.

Unfortunately that meant most of the refund money would be going to the ticket holders that had purchased the most expensive tickets.  This, according to the DNC, is considered totally unfair.


A decision was then made to pay out the refunds in this manner:

People in the $10 seats will get back $15.  After all, they have less money to spend on tickets to begin with. Call it an "Earned Income Ticket Credit."  Persons 'earn' it by having few skills, poor work habits and low ambition, thus keeping them at entry-level wages.

People in the $25 seats will get back $25, because it "seems fair."

People in the $50 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. Afterall, if they can afford a $50 ticket, they must not be paying enough taxes.

People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25, because it's the 'right thing to do.'

People walking past the stadium that couldn't afford to buy a ticket for the game each will get a $10 refund, even though they didn't pay anything for the tickets. They need the most help.  They are either lazy or think that society owes them for just being born.  Sometimes this is known as "Affirmative Action."

Now do you understand?

If not, contact Representative Nancy Pelosi or Senator Amy Klobouchar/Box-of-Rocks for assistance."

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

As I understand it, the final plan was just a slightly tweaked version of Baseball Commissioner Bush's idea, and Commissioner Bush did give the final plan his seal of approval by signing it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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As I understand it, the final plan was just a slightly tweaked version of Baseball Commissioner Bush's idea, and Commissioner Bush did give the final plan his seal of approval by signing it.

That's a good edit to add to the story. Also how almost all the stupid people loved the idea and couldn't wait for their "refunds".

bi partisan cooperation at it's finest - as long as it involves spending and redistribution, these guys are the best of pals

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,589]

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50,000 people went to a baseball game, but the game was rained out

Except that the game wasn't rained out. The people who went couldn't afford to buy peanuts, hot dogs, and beer, so the baseball commissioner decided that they'd rebate some of the ticket money to people.

People in the $10 seats will get back $15. After all, they have less money to spend on tickets to begin with. They're most likely to spend money on the crap food in the stadium.

People in the $25 seats will get back $25, because it "seems fair."

People in the $50 seats will get back $1, because they obviously can afford to buy the food at the stadium, and giving them some money won't increase the vendor sales.

People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25, because it's the 'right thing to do' to support the vendors.

People walking past the stadium that couldn't afford to buy a ticket for the game each will get a $10 refund, even though they didn't pay anything for the tickets. But the stadium will position a few food vendors right next to where the rebate checks are being handed out.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sfc 1]

A GOP baseball stadium owner concerned at the lack of attendance and lost revenue due to the fan not being able to afford the tickets lobbied the government for help.

The politicians eager to help passed tax breaks for the oil companies so they could lower the cost of fuel making it cheaper for fans to get to the game, they then borrowed money they don't know how to repay from the Chinese and gave it to the fans so they could buy tickets.

The GOP baseball stadium owner was happy and made a big donation to the GOP.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

The people who went couldn't afford to buy peanuts, hot dogs, and beer, so the baseball commissioner decided that they'd rebate some of the ticket money to people...

Of course, the Baseball commission didn't realize that with the 'rebates', the ridiculously high priced vendors in the stadium (because the commission required only "all natural, hormone free tofu dogs") didn't sell any more hotdogs than usual.

Most of the fans took that money and bought take out Chinese food at the restaurants next to the stadium and snuck it into the stadium. The plethora of used chopstick tended to tear holes in the hefty bags used by the night janitorial staff.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25, because it's the 'right thing to do.'

And because the event was attended as entertainment for a prospective client the entire $100 plus the cost of the food and beverages will be deducted from the year end tax liability.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

passed tax breaks for the oil companies so they could lower the cost of fuel

which of course didn't work at all since the oil and gas was completely imported and the importers did not worry one bit since the same government wouldn't allow domestic production or refinery capability - even right next door to the primary suppliers

same guys requiring the tofu hotdogs 'for our own good'

but in the end, all of the congressment were happy (both state and federal, both GOP and DFL) because of the flood of votes and donations coming in.

And isn't that what's REALLY important, politicians getting fat and popular. and stadium and team owners

I know that's what matters to me.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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A GOP baseball stadium owner concerned at the lack of attendance and lost revenue due to the fan not being able to afford the tickets lobbied the government for help.

And fearing that the poor attendance was a sign of things to come the stadium owner decided to sell the stadium, (built for $200 million in tax dollars as funded by a half cent local tax increase and eminent domain seizures) for $160 million to a media owner who will be instrumental in furthering the political career of the former stadium owner.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

And fearing that the poor attendance was a sign of things to come the stadium owner decided to sell the stadium, (built for $200 million in tax dollars as funded by a half cent local tax increase and eminent domain seizures) for $160 million to a media owner who will be instrumental in furthering the political career of the former stadium owner.

If the stadium is an analogy for the country, then are we selling the stadium to the chinese? or to the media?

I can never get that straight.

Or have you moved more literal (not littoral) in this game and just want to talk about taxes funding professional sports? I hate that too.

Edit: I like Wendy's best so far. But who really needs tofu dogs and big foam fingers?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

And fearing that the poor attendance was a sign of things to come the stadium owner decided to sell the stadium, (built for $200 million in tax dollars as funded by a half cent local tax increase and eminent domain seizures) for $160 million to a media owner who will be instrumental in furthering the political career of the former stadium owner.

What I don't get, is why in hell would someone with $160 mil in the bank want to get into politics?

Me? I'd stay away from politics and buy my own wind tunnel. Maybe travel a bit. Buy stuff.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

If the stadium is an analogy for the country, then are we selling the stadium to the chinese? or to the media?

I can never get that straight.

Or have you moved more literal (not littoral) in this game and just want to talk about taxes funding professional sports? I hate that too.

Edit: I like Wendy's best so far. But who really needs tofu dogs and big foam fingers?

Hey man, I'm just trying to stick with the wealth redistribution theme. The example I provided shows how Bush made his Texas Ranger wealth off of the redistribution of wealth from the taxpayer into his pocket.
I slipped from analogy to reality. Sorry 'bout that.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

What I don't get, is why in hell would someone with $160 mil in the bank want to get into politics?

Me? I'd stay away from politics and buy my own wind tunnel. Maybe travel a bit. Buy stuff.

I'm with you. But then again I'm not power hungry and the idea of making a living off of post presidential speaking tours doesn't work for someone who hates standing up in front of people and yacking.

But to clarify, it was group of owners. I think Bush's cut was only $15-16 million. I don't recall the precise amount but it's still not "little" enough to make me want to be President.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I'd like to thank all of you that supplemented my rebate/redistribution check. Though I suspect I sit in the $25 seats

here's a little story - sounds a bit like the restaurant story:

"In case you still find the Tax Rebate confusing ...

Upcoming Tax Rebate Explained

This is a great explanation of the tax rebate program recently enacted by Congress. If you don't understand how it will work maybe this explanation will help:

50,000 people went to a baseball game, but the game was rained out.  A refund was then due to the ticket holders. The team was about to mail refunds when a group of Congressional Democrats stopped them and suggested that they send out the ticket refunds based on the Democrat National Committee's interpretation of fairness. Originally the refunds were to be paid based on the price each person had paid for the tickets.

Unfortunately that meant most of the refund money would be going to the ticket holders that had purchased the most expensive tickets.  This, according to the DNC, is considered totally unfair.


A decision was then made to pay out the refunds in this manner:

People in the $10 seats will get back $15.  After all, they have less money to spend on tickets to begin with. Call it an "Earned Income Ticket Credit."  Persons 'earn' it by having few skills, poor work habits and low ambition, thus keeping them at entry-level wages.

People in the $25 seats will get back $25, because it "seems fair."

People in the $50 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. Afterall, if they can afford a $50 ticket, they must not be paying enough taxes.

People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25, because it's the 'right thing to do.'

People walking past the stadium that couldn't afford to buy a ticket for the game each will get a $10 refund, even though they didn't pay anything for the tickets. They need the most help.  They are either lazy or think that society owes them for just being born.  Sometimes this is known as "Affirmative Action."

Now do you understand?

If not, contact Representative Nancy Pelosi or Senator Amy Klobouchar/Box-of-Rocks for assistance."

For your analogy to be remotely accurate, you would need to explain that the game tickets were clearly labeled, "No Refunds."

A bit of understanding how an increase in income affects the economy also might help you understand better why the intelligent thing to do (assuming tax rebates are to be given) was to bias the distributions towards lower income persons. The larger a tax rebate is proportional to income, the more those tax rebates will increase spending in the economy.

It's not your money; it's the government's. The government belongs to the people equally, per capita, not proportionately to the amount of taxes paid in.

Quote

Now do you understand?

I do. Apparently, you do not.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

It's not your money; it's the government's. The government belongs to the people equally, per capita, not proportionately to the amount of taxes paid in.

And the government is operating with a deficit, meaning the money for those rebate checks is being borrowed, but not to worry because the debt will be the problem of future administrations and taxpayers.

Or to put it another way: Dubya is taking money from your kids to buy some goodwill for himself.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

And the government is operating with a deficit, meaning the money for those rebate checks is being borrowed, but not to worry because the debt will be the problem of future administrations and taxpayers.

Or to put it another way: Dubya is taking money from your kids to buy some goodwill for himself.

I'm not saying tax rebates are a good idea. They give a hungry man a fish instead of a fishing rod. But if the government is going to give out fish, their efforts should be concentrated on those who are hungry.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Foremotely accurate, you would need

A bit of understanding .... might help you understand better ......intelligent thing .
.
.
.

I do. Apparently, you do not.

You don't have to be an ass about it.

Note the quotes in the original post. I was just passing it on.

My analogies start and end with the take out chinese food and the tofu dogs.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Or to put it another way: Dubya is taking money from your kids to buy some goodwill for himself.

Dubya + the Dem controlled congress + greedy taxpayers + greedy no-tax payers are jointly really screwing this one up. Credit where credit is due.


"rebate" "redistribution" it's so dishonest - It's my money until the gov takes it. If they took too much to justify a 'real' rebate, then the extra is still my money. Else just call it a tax increase for purpose of redistribution. It's still a turd, even when you wrap it in powdered sugar.

If you and JCD and GWB all agree and honestly think an increase in the welfare distributions is the 'true' correct thing to do, then why support a lie. Go and promote actually increasing the welfare function. Don't 'cling' to transparent efforts to sell it under another name.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

You don't have to be an ass about it.

I was just being realistic w/r/t the analogy. It showed a very poor understanding of economics.

Quote

Note the quotes. I was just passing it on.

Let's see, there were no quote boxes, no indentions, no italics or other special font style, and no quotation marks at the beginning of each paragraph, no credit attributed to separate author, and no link to (or explanation of) the source. Given that it was not treated as a multi-paragraph quote in any typical manner, it seems quite reasonable to assume that the words were posted as your own. My apologies for not realizing they were plagiarized.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

So apparently you do "have" to be.

at least it's very cool of you to insist on your format guidelines, your titling approach, etc. Any thoughts on my grammar while you're at it?

glad to know

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

So apparently you do "have" to be.

glad to know

When people who preach about personal responsibility try to blame others for the repercussions of their own mistakes, it sometimes seems appropriate.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

So apparently you do "have" to be.

glad to know

Only when people who preach about personal responsibility try to blame others for the repercussions of their own mistakes.

----> to "get" back on track.:#$


I'm still amazed at how you're completely supporting GWB initiative like this 'rebate'. If history has shown us nothing else (and it hasn't), is that everything he's done has been in error. And you are supporting him.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

Quote

It showed a very poor understanding of economics.

I disagree. I believe you're showing a very poor understanding of economics. How do you maintain a healthy economy? You keep money circulating through it. If you give the poor, rich, and average money who is going to circulate that money through the economy the most? I believe it is the average ...

PS: Feel free to inform me if I'm wrong.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

It showed a very poor understanding of economics.

I disagree. I believe you're showing a very poor understanding of economics. How do you maintain a healthy economy? You keep money circulating through it. If you give the poor, rich, and average money who is going to circulate that money through the economy the most? I believe it is the middle class ...

PS: Feel free to inform me if I'm wrong.

You are not wrong in theory, but in practice this is not what is happening, every year we ship $100billions to china and the middle east and borrow back some of it so we can pay interest and ship the borrowed money back in exchange for crappy leaded throwaway good and overpriced oil.
The fiscal policies of the feds/white house are crazy, they allowed the housing/credit bubble to build with poor regulation and over stimulation caused by tax cuts and that stupid rebate they did a few years ago.
We borrowed our way into the economic crisis and we are borrowing our way out.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I'm still amazed at how you're completely supporting GWB initiative like this 'rebate'. If history has shown us nothing else (and it hasn't), is that everything he's done has been in error. And you are supporting him.

I don't support the rebate. I think it's a bad idea, and intended to offer just enough boost to the economy to possibly prevent the technical criteria of a recession from being realized. However, any boost is temporary, and will ultimately be offset by a decrease, since it was paid for with borrowed money. The hope of politicians is that the boost is sufficiently large and the corresponding decrease is sufficiently time shifted so that history will not show that a recession occurred on their watch.

However, if tax rebates are to be given, then they should be given to those consumers who are most likely to spend the money. That's the whole point.

Most wealthy people are wealthy for a reason. They tend to spend less than they earn. On the other hand, many middle and low income households live paycheck to paycheck. They often spend every bit of income they have. If the intention is to boost the economy, giving tax rebates to the latter group will maximize the benefits, since less of the money will end up in a bank as cash reserves, contributing nothing to economic growth. Some other forms of investment are also likely to have only a limited economic benefit compared the consumer spending. (It's the same reason that trickle down economic policies don't work very well.) So, if a tax rebate is given, in order to maximize its effectiveness, it should be given primarily to the low to middle income households.

Incidentally, the benefits of increased consumer spending are eventually realized by companies and shareholders/investors. If income levels are thought of as elevation, money is like fire, not water; it flows upward.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!