billvon 3,080 #51 April 30, 2008 >when it comes to foreign policy, Texas and California are one . . . Interestingly, this wasn't even close to true when the country was first founded. (Not that California even existed, but even the individual states were primarily autonomous.) Over the years, the country has grown from the "united STATES of america" to a homogenous country called the USA. Will the same happen to the EU? I suspect it will take a bit longer, but I also expect a similar homogenization will occur with time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 May 1, 2008 QuoteWill the same happen to the EU? I suspect it will take a bit longer, but I also expect a similar homogenization will occur with time. Some of you are really getting annoying with confusing what is and what may become. You can only guess what will be, and you can think about what was. But this subject is about NOW, give or take a couple years. And none of these other projections will be true in that timeframe. I do believe the EU will become not nation like in the next half century. But that's irrelevant to now. Just like JCD saying it is a union, except the UK, one of its most important members. That's as lame as China is the big dog, I mean will become the big dog in 10 years, no I mean in 20 years.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #53 May 1, 2008 QuoteSome of you are really getting annoying with confusing what is and what may become. You can only guess what will be, and you can think about what was. But this subject is about NOW, give or take a couple years. And none of these other projections will be true in that timeframe. Why are you so bothered by the fact that the US is not the only major player in the world? China and the EU are already major players, as well.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 May 1, 2008 Quote Why are you so bothered by the fact that the US is not the only major player in the world? China and the EU are already major players, as well. I'm not. Just by your (and others) refusal to accept that the US is still the leader, driven more by wishful thinking, which is retarded when you're a citizen. Being #3 sucks, and we'll find that out again if/when it occurs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #55 May 1, 2008 >Some of you are really getting annoying with confusing what is and what >may become. Sorry to make you angry! I was not claiming that you were wrong or dumb or anything, just making an observation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #56 May 1, 2008 QuoteQuote Why are you so bothered by the fact that the US is not the only major player in the world? China and the EU are already major players, as well. I'm not. Just by your (and others) refusal to accept that the US is still the leader, driven more by wishful thinking, which is retarded when you're a citizen. Being #3 sucks, and we'll find that out again if/when it occurs. What metric(s) are you using to determine that the US is "the leader"? If you are using military spending to make that assertion, I would agree. If you are using amount of goods imported (thus having more control over international demand), I would agree. If you are using GDP, I would disagree. If you are using amount of goods exported (thus having more control over international supply), I would disagree. I don't recall claiming that the US isn't at or near the top spot. But, to consider the US to be so far ahead of all other countries as to be the world's only superpower is, in my opinion, not a realistic claim. My position has nothing to do with any mental handicap I may or may not have, nor does it have anything to do with my status as a natural citizen of the US. I simply do not see the evidence to support claims of the US as the only superpower.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 May 1, 2008 QuoteWhat metric(s) are you using to determine that the US is "the leader"? influence, leadership, military power, output. 5% of the world has 25% of the global GDP. The loosely associated EU can claim slightly higher total, but with 60% more people. China may be 3rd or 4th, but on a per capita basis is around 100th. On what subjects does the world look to China for leadership? Are there any? How to run over people with tanks? China cannot be deemed a superpower. If the EU acted cohesively, it would be one, but it doesn't even have a ratified constitution yet, and I'd expect it to be another generation before people started behaving as EU'ers rather than Germans or Italians or (gasp) French. I suspect all those who endured WWII have to die first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #58 May 1, 2008 A generation? No way. Consider the amount of people from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland who still refuse to consider themselves British. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #59 May 1, 2008 QuoteA generation? No way. Consider the amount of people from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland who still refuse to consider themselves British. Well, I did stay "starting to act." Americans are full of regional and ethnic groups that still hold that identity high in their mind. But collectively still act as Americans. As the EU forms into more than just a bunch of treaty and trade agreements, the same will happen. But all of you on the Isles are outliers, from each other, and from the EU. Won't give up the pound, even. So that may be the best measure for EU cohesion and power- when the UK fully embraces it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #60 May 1, 2008 The current issue of Foreign Affairs, which just arrived, asks that question. Fareed Zakaria on "The Future of American Power: How America Can Survive the Rise of the Rest" "Despite some eerie parallels between the position of the United States today and that of the British Empire a century ago, there are key differences. Britain's decline was driven by bad economics. The United States, in contrast, has the strength and dynamism to continue shaping the world -- but only if it can overcome its political dysfunction and reorient U.S. policy for a world defined by the rise of other powers." & Richard Hass on "The Age of Nonpolarity: What Will Follow U.S. Dominance" "The United States' unipolar moment is over. International relations in the twenty-first century will be defined by nonpolarity. Power will be diffuse rather than concentrated, and the influence of nation-states will decline as that of nonstate actors increases. But this is not all bad news for the United States; Washington can still manage the transition and make the world a safer place." [channeling inner nerd] Speaker's Corner 'book' club anyone? [/back to 'normal' nerd] VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #61 May 1, 2008 Quote… influence, leadership … I would argue that the US has seen a significant decline in these areas since 2003. Quote… military power … The US certainly leads in military spending, but I'm not so convinced regarding military power. Quote… output … The EU leads in this category. Quote… 5% of the world has 25% of the global GDP. The loosely associated EU can claim slightly higher total, but with 60% more people. China may be 3rd or 4th, but on a per capita basis is around 100th. In terms of per capita GDP, the US doesn't lead the world. QuoteIf the EU acted cohesively, it would be one, but it doesn't even have a ratified constitution yet … Not all nations have a constitutional form of government. The EU has a government in place that, like the US' federal government, supersedes the sovereignty of the member states in the areas in which it has been given such authority.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #62 May 1, 2008 ooh, thanks for the magazine cite. I've occasionally come across Foreign Affairs, but it's not something you see on every magazine rack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #63 May 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteIf the EU acted cohesively, it would be one, but it doesn't even have a ratified constitution yet … Not all nations have a constitutional form of government. The EU has a government in place that, like the US' federal government, supersedes the sovereignty of the member states in the areas in which it has been given such authority. The EU does in fact have a constitution of sorts, due to take effect next year. That's the point - the EU is a work in progress, like the USA between 1783 and 1787. It was another 120 years before it was a cohesive player in the world. You can pretend it's one nation like entity, or you can reply to the messages between vortex and I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #64 May 1, 2008 The point remains - it'll take more than a generation. Probably never in fact. The uncertainty is for good reason - whilst it seemed the UK had a side to take around late 2002, for example, the more pertinent question was shouldn't we act as a 'bridge' of sorts between the two. Either way, can you really envisage the United States of Europe? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #65 May 1, 2008 QuoteThat's the point - the EU is a work in progress, like the USA between 1783 and 1787. The USA is still a work in progress. That's the whole point of Article V of the Constitution. So, do we not count as a country either?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #66 May 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteThat's the point - the EU is a work in progress, like the USA between 1783 and 1787. The USA is still a work in progress. That's the whole point of Article V of the Constitution. So, do we not count as a country either? Your pointless question was covered by the sentence following the one you quoted. Hope you do better in class. Your silence towards vortexring speaks volumes about your position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #67 May 2, 2008 Quote Quote Quote That's the point - the EU is a work in progress, like the USA between 1783 and 1787. The USA is still a work in progress. That's the whole point of Article V of the Constitution. So, do we not count as a country either? Quote Your pointless question … It's only pointless in your eyes because it's answer does not support your position. Enjoy your denial. I don't have the inclination to keep pointing out the obvious to you. Quote Your silence towards vortexring speaks volumes about your position. He didn't ask me any questions.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #68 May 2, 2008 "I know you are, but what am I?" This is your rebuttal? Man, that's weak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
