High Fuel Prices are Sound Environmental Policy

[lawrocket 3]

Why is it that nobody out there in the mainstream media is suggesting how good high fuel prices are in the long run?

We've got presidential candidates talkign out one side of their mouths by addressing the need to lower fuel prices. Then you've got the same candidates talking about reducing emissions and increasing fuel efficiency standards.

Ah! Now we have a solution to this. Consumers can buy - drumroll please - higher mileage vehicles! YES! It makes sense that whereas you may have been spending $50.00 a week on fuel last year, now you are spending $100.00 per week on fuel! Now, what can we do to lower those fuel costs?

Yes. That's it. I'll buy a car that gets better mileage! YEE HAW.

Support your environment. Keep them fuel prices up.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Support your environment. Keep them fuel prices up.

Hasn't that been one of the rationales behind increasing gas taxes?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[PLFXpert 0]

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Support your environment. Keep them fuel prices up.

I guess you're an extremist, then (vs. activist). Good to know.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Ah! Now we have a solution to this. Consumers can buy - drumroll please - higher mileage vehicles! YES! It makes sense that whereas you may have been spending $50.00 a week on fuel last year, now you are spending $100.00 per week on fuel! Now, what can we do to lower those fuel costs?

unfortunately, you pay 3 times as much for fuel, but if you had a sedan before, it's difficult to even double your fuel economy, so you're still paying 50% more.

and even at triple prices, our fuel usage hasn't dropped nearly so much as the high gas price envionmentalists predicted, though maybe such effects would take longer than 2 years to show up.

The euro model of high gas taxes used to fund trains and buses and bike paths wouldn't work well here, since the money would just get raided for the general fund.

[idrankwhat 0]

This was on Marketplace this morning.

LISA NAPOLI: Today in Ghana, the U.N. Secretary General talked about the effect biofuels are having on food prices around the world and how they could set back world anti-poverty efforts. Fortune magazine's Allan Sloan says lots of people once thought biofuels were going to save the planet.

ALLAN SLOAN: I think of it as that movie "I Am Legend," where it starts out with a vaccine to cure cancer, then at the end wipes out most of the planet and turns almost everyone who's left into a flesh-eating zombie. Not quite what they bargained for. And the thing with ethanol and biofuel is that was supposed to be a way to cure the United States', what President Bush called our addiction to oil without anyone having to sacrifice anything. You know you're not raising taxes; you're not driving smaller cars; you're not being more efficient. And, of course, it turns out it's taking so much of the world's crops that it's run up the cost of food all over the world and has not succeeded in any visible way, at least in the United States, at holding down the price of oil.

NAPOLI: So, it's kind like taking a pill for a diet or using a machine that's supposedly going to tone you without your having to work. What would have been a better alternative?

SLOAN: Well in hindsight, what my children would call a big honking gas tax where you would have put a fairly substantial tax on gasoline and then, because a lot of people really can't afford that, you flow it back to them in the form of an income tax credit. And that way we'd be paying the tax to ourselves instead of paying what is now the largest transfer of wealth from one society to another. And many of the oil producers are not exactly friends of the United States. So, we're helping fund the worldwide campaign against us, and I think we would have been a lot better off with a gas tax.

NAPOLI: What do we do now that we've become more dependent on this ethanol? How do we turn back and change directions again? Is it possible even?

SLOAN: It's definitely possible. Is it going to happen? It probably wouldn't happen. The idea of ethanol is not a bad idea if you made it out of garbage, something that's already there that you don't have to grow. The idea of growing things to make them into ethanol, it didn't seem to make any sense when I heard about it, except it made political sense. And again, it's not only President Bush, it's also the Democrats, because you didn't see them lining up and saying, "You know, we'd rather have a gas tax."

That's Fortune magazine's Allan Sloan. And in Los Angeles, I'm Lisa Napoli. Enjoy the day



I think that this year is going to be the start of some real changes in driving habits. The increase has been uncomfortable up to this point. I think that $3.50-$4.00/gal is going to make things unbearable for many. Commutes are costing more, food costs are up by about a third. And on the way home I'm hearing a story about an increased number of people utilizing the food banks. Something's going to have to change.

[Amazon 7]

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I think that this year is going to be the start of some real changes in driving habits. The increase has been uncomfortable up to this point. I think that $3.50-$4.00/gal is going to make things unbearable for many. Commutes are costing more, food costs are up by about a third. And on the way home I'm hearing a story about an increased number of people utilizing the food banks. Something's going to have to change.

Its ok.. what really matters is that the President and his cronies from the oil business have done handsomely... and that is all that matters in our capatilist society that so many love so much.

If you could manipulate the world oil prices as they have done to get rich wouldn't you??

As oilmen.. they had to know that a war in the oil rich middle east would destabilize the world oil markets as it has.

IT is either sheer greed that caused them to do this to make all the oil wells in this country that are low producers into viable wells worth 5 to 6 times what a barrel of oil was when they took office.. or sheer and total incompetence... you decide.

[masterblaster72 0]

Sometimes I think you post on a whim, whatever comes to your mind, without really thinking it through.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Gawain 0]

There is a problem with that logic. Demand continues to rise despite the cost.

Fuel prices are up (retail) in the US about 100% over the past 4 years. Diesel is up that much in just the past year and change.

Demand has slowed, perhaps a sliver (about 2% is one figure I heard).

This energy consumption issue will not resolve itself until every one of us looks at it from a consumption perspective rather than a cost perspective.

The cost will vary literally from day to day across the spectrum, however consumption is an equally tangible measurement.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

I love reading the realing stupid shit posted about why gas prices are so high. While there are many factors some claims posted on this thread are so fictional ( driven from politically driven hatred) and they need to be debunked ( and it is so dam easy ) (hi kallend)

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/29/8378002/index.htm


The claims of BIG OIL COMPANY PROFITS are also a sickening joke. Regulatory boards give around a 10% return allowance to the BIG ELECTRIC companies. Can the bitchers of big oil companies quote the return rate of those comanies have seen in the last couple of years? I can

The simple fact of the matter is at what ever level, if anyone will really take the time to look at the government and the complicit enviros. they can see who really is to blame. Big Media will not report this because they like Big Government and the enviros. Oh, and yes, at a level outside Big Oil, Bush ( his admin)is just as much to blame.

Posts blaming Bush are a true fucking joke on the big oil and croney side

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[packing_jarrett 0]

I hate how gas is so high. I do drive a fuel efficient car (32MPG).

Na' Cho' Cheese

[lawrocket 3]

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Sometimes I think you post on a whim, whatever comes to your mind, without really thinking it through.

Well, how many people continue to think that the environment is a No. 1 global priority. If this is the case, then making fossil fuels expensive is a good way to drive down demand and move toward efficiency.

"Ooops. It's causing an increase in food prices as we move toward more sustainable energy." That's not a problem if your No. 1 concern is the environment.

So now the price of rice is a big deal in the world - it's doubled in the last few months. Why? Fule prices are big. On top of that, a month and a half long cold snap caused problems, too.

But, so long as the environment is a big issue, then these are secondary concerns.

So, what is important? The environment - when everything is going well. When everythign is NOT going well, the environment takes a second seat, doesn't it?

Why don't we get our priorities straightened out?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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Posts blaming Bush are a true fucking joke on the big oil and croney side

It never ceases to amaze me how you hard core right wingers will bend over to apologize for the fuckups of this administration and like them.. blame it on everyone else

[funjumper101 15]

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There is a problem with that logic. Demand continues to rise despite the cost.

Fuel prices are up (retail) in the US about 100% over the past 4 years. Diesel is up that much in just the past year and change.

Demand has slowed, perhaps a sliver (about 2% is one figure I heard).

This energy consumption issue will not resolve itself until every one of us looks at it from a consumption perspective rather than a cost perspective.

The cost will vary literally from day to day across the spectrum, however consumption is an equally tangible measurement.

Fuel cost about the same in 2000 as it does now, if you use any other currency besides the US dollar. As shrubco has managed the largest spree of borrowing the world has ever seen, the value of the dollar has dropped like a stone.

The reason that Iraq was invaded and occupied is that Saddam Hussien was going to start selling oil for euros. There is NO WAY the US would allow that. The dollar has been propped up for decades due to the oil market using dollars as the currency for oil. The demand from China and India is skyrocketing, Their economies have been built on the backs of the US economy. For short term corporate profit we sent manufacturing overseas. Labor cost were less. Now we are sending tech and customer service jobs overseas. The war on the middle class has been executed to perfection by the rescums. Pretty soon there will be really rich folks, and really poor folks. The rescums are very proud of this acheivement.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Fuel cost about the same in 2000 as it does now, if you use any other currency besides the US dollar. As shrubco has managed the largest spree of borrowing the world has ever seen, the value of the dollar has dropped like a stone.

The dollar only dropped about 1/3rd to the Euro, maybe 40% if you use the weak point for the EU.

Doesn't account for oil tripling.

It's not all Bush's fault. Blame China too.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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I do drive a fuel efficient car (32MPG).

My car makes 31mpg combined and it's considered a gas guzzler round these parts.

It's all relative. You want a fuel efficient car round here and you're looking at something that gets 65mpg +

[wmw999 2,603]

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And the thing with ethanol and biofuel is that was supposed to be a way to cure the United States', what President Bush called our addiction to oil without anyone having to sacrifice anything.

We don't really mind if someone else has to sacrifice something, however. We just don't want to see it.

Biofuels are not the only causing an increase in world hunger. People are not the only thing contributing to global warming.

But they are inputs we can control. With good weather all the time, we could grow a lot more corn, too. But since we can't control the weather, we spend time and money on better seeds and fertilizers.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[masterblaster72 0]

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Sometimes I think you post on a whim, whatever comes to your mind, without really thinking it through.

Well, how many people continue to think that the environment is a No. 1 global priority. If this is the case, then making fossil fuels expensive is a good way to drive down demand and move toward efficiency.

"Ooops. It's causing an increase in food prices as we move toward more sustainable energy." That's not a problem if your No. 1 concern is the environment.

So now the price of rice is a big deal in the world - it's doubled in the last few months. Why? Fule prices are big. On top of that, a month and a half long cold snap caused problems, too.

But, so long as the environment is a big issue, then these are secondary concerns.

So, what is important? The environment - when everything is going well. When everythign is NOT going well, the environment takes a second seat, doesn't it?

Why don't we get our priorities straightened out?

Well, I agree that our priorities are messed up. I also think that the environment as a priority can be harmonious with the economy, with some foresight and planning. This situation with ethanol/food prices demonstrates poor planning and execution.

I just think the premise of your first post is a bit flawed, because high fuel prices haven't hindered people from driving. Also, in order for your point re: mileage to become a reality, car companies need to drastically change their mileage per gallon standards, which they refuse to do, at least last time I heard (perhaps that's changed?). The technology is there, but corporate greed, a corrupt government, and a sheepish consumer population prevent it from happening.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[kallend 2,184]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,184]

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Blame China too.

Where is China getting all its $US from? Oh yes, from us.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Yes, and you can get help for that you know.

But I know that only your quips are important to you. It would seem you hate the US so bad you might want to go home

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tmaricle55 0]

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The technology is there, but corporate greed

I have to agree! What is the government doing to encourage corporations to go green? Is there a push to have people work from home? The culture now is do more with less as long as I get my bonus. Most culture changes start from TOP down, not bottom up. I don't see a lot of execs giving up the perks to go green. The world of micro manage is now the new rule to justify management jobs.

Muff Brother # 3883, SCR # 14796 ICD # 1 - Pres.
Yeah, I noticed and I think it's funny!

[idrankwhat 0]

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If you could manipulate the world oil prices as they have done to get rich wouldn't you??

While I don't think you meant this to be an actual question for most of us I'll give you my honest answer.
No, I would not. But I'm weird that way. I don't shit where I eat, I think that having the weaponry to destroy the world 5 times over is plenty, and I think that when I die that I don't want my kids and their friends looking at me and asking "what the hell was that selfish, greedy bastard thinking? Thanks a lot asshole".

[lawrocket 3]

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when I die that I don't want my kids and their friends looking at me and asking "what the hell was that selfish, greedy bastard thinking? Thanks a lot asshole".

The only time this is ever said is when those friends and those kids don't take anything from your will.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[base428 1]

Here's a guaranteed solution to high gas prices and I'm ready to buy one NOW:

http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar

And more info is here: http://gm-volt.com

My early calculations for the cost to drive 1 mile in the following vehicles (using West Virginia's electricity rates and gas at $3.69/gallon):
2011 Chevy Volt: 1.5 cents
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid: 9.5 cents
2002 Chevy Express Van: 25 cents

Forget biofuels and Exxon boycotts. Get a Chevy Volt in late 2010 that'll go 40 miles on a charge and 650 miles total range using the onboard generator (gas engine). You probably drive less than 40 miles a day anyway, which means you'd use NO gas.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[lawrocket 3]

Jason:

Doesn't that just change from gasoline to coal, which releases just as much if not more CO2 than gasoline? (I mention coal because I believe that you are in WV).

"Electric cars" seem to be "Coal powered cars" in actuality.

My wife is hotter than your wife.