Poorly chosen words obscure Obama's point

[funjumper101 15]

Nice editorial from the SJ Merc News.

begin quoted text>>>

Poorly chosen words obscure Obama's point.

"When their (the Republicans') economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them." - Democratic candidate Bill Clinton in 1991, as reported in the New York Times


With a clumsy remark about small-town Pennsylvanians last week, presidential candidate Barack Obama gave opponent Hillary Clinton another chance to tear him down.

And he gave Republicans another chance to avoid a critical issue in this campaign: the financial plight of too many Americans after eight years of tax cuts for the wealthy, stagnant incomes for the middle class, a trillion-dollar war and now a recession.

Like Bill Clinton before him, Obama was alluding to the culture wars and scapegoating that divert attention from real problems like the growing income gaps in a global economy. But now all attention is on whether Obama's comments were "elitist," as Republican presidential candidate John McCain called them Monday.

Obama was speaking about the difficulty of persuading people that government can make things better when they haven't seen evidence of it for decades. "So it's not surprising then that they get bitter," he said, "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

A Huffington Post blogger posted the comments, which were made at a private fund-raiser in San Francisco. Had Obama been speaking to folks in Scranton, he might have chosen words more carefully: perhaps "frustrated" instead of "bitter," and "seek solace in" instead of "cling to" religion.
Republicans are gleeful. Characterizing (wine-sipping, wind-surfing) Democrats as snobs out of touch with heartland values is a chapter from their dog-eared playbook. Now Obama has fallen into the trap, and the other Clinton in this race is shoveling in the dirt. Shame on her.

Obama is essentially saying the same thing Bill Clinton said when he was running against President George Bush amid a recession 17 years ago. In every presidential election, Republicans have championed "family" values and hot-button issues like gun rights to divert attention from corporate giveaways, the health care crisis and rising costs of college.

Hillary Clinton, McCain and 24/7 TV analysts have feasted on Obama's poor phrasing and retreated to platitudes about the virtues of the heartland. On Monday, McCain praised "a generation that made the world safe for democracy."

But as for that generation's grandchildren, working two jobs in Wilkes Barre without health insurance, no mention. As for millions of Americans facing bankruptcy, McCain at first rejected help, only relenting after he was characterized as coldhearted.

Hillary Clinton could have picked up where Obama faltered and talked straight, as her husband did. Instead, she dredged up her target-shooting days with her Dad, and added Monday, "I don't think he (Obama) really gets it that people are looking for a president who stands up for you and not looks down on you."

As he did with race, Obama must talk frankly to rust-belt voters about the real reasons for tough times and the hard road ahead to economic recovery. Only this time, he must choose his words wisely.

<<< end quoted text

[rushmc 23]

What ever the words chosen to make this point, he exposed just a bit more of who he is and what he believes.

Now, all who have heard will have to decide for themselves exactly who Obama is. (in the context of these words)

For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

How about you?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

as if you ever had any intention of voting for or supporting the guy.

[rushmc 23]

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

as if you ever had any intention of voting for or supporting the guy.

So WTF is your point?

Cant contribute to the context of the post?

Ya, like I am surprised

WAFJ

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

You bring up an interesting point. I understand the casual meaning behind what he's saying, but his "band-aid" fixes are even more strange. For example, his comments about his grand-mother in the wake of the Rev. Wright fix-it-speech.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

Every word can be spun. I am a freaking master of it.

"So, tell me, if I asked you whether you are a lying scumbag, would your answer to that question be the same as to this question?"

"So, if a gay man were to jump on your back, would you beat him off?"

Plenty of things can be said that can be spun any of a number of ways.

Frankly, it's why I am so irritated with politics.

And, think of Obama on this, Jackie Robinson Day in baseball. Think of the struggles he had as an example - players who just TRIED to piss him off and to get him heated. And he had to - HAD TO - bite his tongue and act as if it didn't bother him.

Obama's in the same spot. Everything he says will be spun. Forget his point. He said that republicans divert issues by appealing to feelings. Everybody knows what he meant.

Who'd have thunk that conservatives would become PC pussies like the lefty pinkos? I'm glad I left that movement when I was 19.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

You bring up an interesting point. I understand the casual meaning behind what he's saying, but his "band-aid" fixes are even more strange. For example, his comments about his grand-mother in the wake of the Rev. Wright fix-it-speech.

You are going more where I was. While I think his comment were are best condesending I will not give him or anybody the power to "offend" me. I can and do (as many on this site do) form opinions based on what people say. Anyway I drift.

In this world today where "offending" someone is such a great (PC) sin, Obama, and everyone else for that matter, will have to live with the results of stupid insultling comments, whether they were meant in a bad light or not.

Own up to it, give excuses or try to explain it away. Ones character will show depending..............

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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Now, all who have heard will have to decide for themselves exactly who Obama is. (in the context of these words)

He seems like a Presidential candidate who has a tendency to know what's going on and talks straight about it. That alone shows that he is indeed the candidate of change that he claims to be. I'm starting to like him even more.
Are you telling me that you prefer him to be more PC, shoveling empty praise instead of acknowledging the "hard truths" that the noise machine has been demanding for years?

[idrankwhat 0]

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You are going more where I was. While I think his comment were are best condesending I will not give him or anybody the power to "offend" me. I can and do (as many on this site do) form opinions based on what people say. Anyway I drift.

In this world today where "offending" someone is such a great (PC) sin, Obama, and everyone else for that matter, will have to live with the results of stupid insultling comments, whether they were meant in a bad light or not.

Own up to it, give excuses or try to explain it away. Ones character will show depending..............

Fair enough. My only issue is that I don't think he needs to make an explanation in the first place. Unless he wants to explain the reason for the pressures put on the workers who he was referring to.

As a sidebar, attitudes that I consider "condescending" or "elitist" would include:
a) not knowing that the price of gas was high
b) saying "So!" when it's pointed out that your war policies have a disapproval rating of over 80%
c) looking at displaced, poverty stricken disaster victims and stating "this is working very well for them".

[rushmc 23]

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Now, all who have heard will have to decide for themselves exactly who Obama is. (in the context of these words)

He seems like a Presidential candidate who has a tendency to know what's going on and talks straight about it. That alone shows that he is indeed the candidate of change that he claims to be. I'm starting to like him even more.
Are you telling me that you prefer him to be more PC, shoveling empty praise instead of acknowledging the "hard truths" that the noise machine has been demanding for years?

What you see as a "hard truth" I see as something totally different. It sure as hell not the truth where I live (central Iowa)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

"condescending"

is looking down your nose all you disagree with and "know" they are wrong instead of disagreeing.

The term at the top is the center point for liberal eletism. Proven by using judges instead of congress to get your way (because you know you are right)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

What you see as a "hard truth" I see as something totally different. It sure as hell not the truth where I live (central Iowa)

No kidding? People in Iowa are happy with the state of the Nation? Maybe I'm out of touch but I assumed that the price of diesel alone in your neck of the woods might make a few of your neighbors less than euphoric.

[funjumper101 15]

The right wing media spin machine has worked overtime to trash both Demcratic candidates. McCain has been given a pass, so far.

Obama's point was clumsy, but accurate. shrub's presidency has been a disaster for all but the very wealthy, from an economic perspective.

The rescums are doing a great job of obscuring the real issues in the campaign. If 60 - 80% of the people want the Iraq war to end, why didn't that translate into overwhelming Democratic victories in the 2006 elections? If the economy is a major concern to the electorate, why is McCain, who has admitted that "domestic economics is not a strong point" even being considered as a viable candidate? The rescums are masters of manipulating the people into voting against their own best interests.

A perfect example is the way that the rescums spun the issue of estate taxes for the very wealthy into being a "death tax" that should be abolished. The estate tax is simply a form of capital gains taxes assessed when assets move on to the heirs of the original owners. Ownership change = capital gains taxes are due. The ceiling for the tax to kick in is so high that the percentage of people affected is tiny. The rescums hold that "That money was earned and the taxes have already been paid." That spin is a complete contradiction of reality, but the sheeple buy it, hook line, and sinker. The tiny minority of the population that is affected by the estate tax has fooled the sheeple completely. If the rescums had their way, capital gains taxes would be abolished completely. Eliminating the estate tax is a step in that direction.
The estate tax is also a form of social engineering. The goal was to prevent a generational aristocracy from taking root in the US. There is an argument to be made that the Ford Foundation, the Kennedy Foundation,, Bill Gate's Foundation, etc would not have come to be without the incentive of avoiding estate taxes. I don't know that I buy that argument completely, but there is some truth to it.

Before anyone starts pitching a fit about using tax strategy for social engineering, consider the mortgage interest write-off for property owners. That is a classic example of tax strategy for social engineering. Encouraging people to own property is enabled by providing this wonderful tax benefit. If you are a renter, you don't get to write off any portion of the rent you pay. Social engineering at its finest.

[rehmwa 2]

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If you are a renter, you don't get to write off any portion of the rent you pay.

nonsense, several states have engineered ways to take the owner's tax break and push it to the renter


I don't like taxation for social or business incentives. It's just another way to try and control the free market. And look what that's doing to the economy today.

tax the shit out of everybody, then.... give incentives to the "approved" list of industries/actions/etc. Screw over the rest to make up the shortfall

How do you get on the approved list? campaign contributions, be part of a big voting block, etc. It's such a recipe for favoritism, cronyism and just plain craplitude that we can smell it everywhere.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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It's such a recipe for favoritism, cronyism and just plain craplitude that we can smell it everywhere.

I think you're on to something. We could call it "crapitalism".

[rehmwa 2]

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It's such a recipe for favoritism, cronyism and just plain craplitude that we can smell it everywhere.

I think you're on to something. We could call it "crapitalism".

Nice - absolutely crapulicious

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you are a renter, you don't get to write off any portion of the rent you pay.

nonsense, several states have engineered ways to take the owner's tax break and push it to the renter

California gave a whopping 40 (60?)$ credit. That makes up for 20k in rent all right. Except it doesn't, because the income threshold eliminates anyone renting in the urban areas.

Cities like San Francisco did implement rent control at the same time prop 13 froze real estate taxes, with mixed results.

[kelpdiver 2]

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

as if you ever had any intention of voting for or supporting the guy.

So WTF is your point?

The obvious point is that you made up your mind on the guy a long time ago and nothing will change it. When possible, you'll jump on news that supports it. Frankly, I think there's much better material for you to work with. Tax policy?

Lawrocket had it correct - so many on the right are afraid of the consequences of a terribly unsuccessful administration that they'll resort to becoming 'pc pussies' if it will help them win. If successful, they'll immediately go back to the same self centered SOBs they are.

[rehmwa 2]

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That makes up for 20k in rent all right.

what does this mean?

It reads like "Free housing for renters as supplemented by tax breaks"?

really, what risks do renters take? they invest nothing, build nothing, (in terms of housing) - why should they get to write off rent?

(I'm not a fan of the mortgage write off either (fair tax seems more reasonable to me). Just reduce the tax for everybody and let owners own because they want to, not because the government "encourages" it. But at least SOME modicum of reason can be put forth for owners)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

the proposition was that renters get passed some of the tax credits from their landlord. Maybe that's true in some states, but I don't believe CA is one of them.

Rent isn't risk free. Depending on your location/rent control, at any moment you can get 30 (or 60) days notice to get out, as soon as the owner decides he no longer needs you to carry the mortage for him.

It's almost semantics as to whether or not the renter or the landlord builds the housing. Neither succeed without the other.

Renters definitely subsidize home owners, but the chaos that would be caused by a 'fairer' system is a big detriment to making that change.

[rushmc 23]

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What you see as a "hard truth" I see as something totally different. It sure as hell not the truth where I live (central Iowa)

No kidding? People in Iowa are happy with the state of the Nation? Maybe I'm out of touch but I assumed that the price of diesel alone in your neck of the woods might make a few of your neighbors less than euphoric.

Hm, if single issues ruin your world you are in for one miserable existance

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The right wing media spin machine has worked overtime to trash both Demcratic candidates. McCain has been given a pass, so far. Kind of hard to trash McCain when he is not (and does not have to) saying anything

Obama's point was clumsy, but accurate. shrub's presidency has been a disaster for all but the very wealthy, from an economic perspective.Dont agree. Racisit? ya, In touch? no, not in my world or in Iowa (for the most part)

The rescums are doing a great job of obscuring the real issues in the campaign. If 60 - 80% of the people want the Iraq war to end, why didn't that translate into overwhelming Democratic victories in the 2006 elections? If the economy is a major concern to the electorate, why is McCain, who has admitted that "domestic economics is not a strong point" even being considered as a viable candidate? The rescums are masters of manipulating the people into voting against their own best interests.

A perfect example is the way that the rescums spun the issue of estate taxes for the very wealthy into being a "death tax" that should be abolished. The estate tax is simply a form of capital gains taxes assessed when assets move on to the heirs of the original owners. Ownership change = capital gains taxes are due. The ceiling for the tax to kick in is so high that the percentage of people affected is tiny. The rescums hold that "That money was earned and the taxes have already been paid." That spin is a complete contradiction of reality, but the sheeple buy it, hook line, and sinker. The tiny minority of the population that is affected by the estate tax has fooled the sheeple completely. If the rescums had their way, capital gains taxes would be abolished completely. Eliminating the estate tax is a step in that direction.
The estate tax is also a form of social engineering. The goal was to prevent a generational aristocracy from taking root in the US. There is an argument to be made that the Ford Foundation, the Kennedy Foundation,, Bill Gate's Foundation, etc would not have come to be without the incentive of avoiding estate taxes. I don't know that I buy that argument completely, but there is some truth to it.

Before anyone starts pitching a fit about using tax strategy for social engineering, consider the mortgage interest write-off for property owners. That is a classic example of tax strategy for social engineering. Encouraging people to own property is enabled by providing this wonderful tax benefit. If you are a renter, you don't get to write off any portion of the rent you pay. Social engineering at its finest.

You really need to get away from NBC and Demunderground.com

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

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For me, his remarks in and of themselves were not as revealing as his initial reaction to those words being exposed.

as if you ever had any intention of voting for or supporting the guy.

So WTF is your point?

The obvious point is that you made up your mind on the guy a long time ago and nothing will change it. When possible, you'll jump on news that supports it. Frankly, I think there's much better material for you to work with. Tax policy?

Lawrocket had it correct - so many on the right are afraid of the consequences of a terribly unsuccessful administration that they'll resort to becoming 'pc pussies' if it will help them win. If successful, they'll immediately go back to the same self centered SOBs they are.

And 40 plus years of a so successful Dem run country was/is better?

You really need to loose your tim foil hat and stop thinging you have everybody who does not agree with you figured out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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And 40 plus years of a so successful Dem run country was/is better?

Which 40 years were those?

FDR + Truman falls short at half that (1933-1953), per my tim foil hat.

[idrankwhat 0]

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No kidding? People in Iowa are happy with the state of the Nation? Maybe I'm out of touch but I assumed that the price of diesel alone in your neck of the woods might make a few of your neighbors less than euphoric.

Hm, if single issues ruin your world you are in for one miserable existance

That was only one issue, hence the term "alone". But dealing with that "single issue", how many aspects of your life are affected by that "single issue"? Nearly all of them? You might as well be telling a fish to get over his miserable water centric existence.